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Hank Hanegraaff works - Christanity in Crisis

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Yauming, Feb 4, 2002.

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  1. Yauming

    Yauming Member

    368
    +1
    In the thread, Faith Healings, a heated discussion of Hank Hanegraaff's works and his personal integrity got started.

    To facilitate for a more open discussion, I am creating this thread (and closing the old one).

    Some of the questions raised were:

    1. HH argument that the "word of faith" movement contain many objectional practises.

    2. His argument is wrong because he took many people's quotes out of context?

    3. He is dishonest and doing it for the money- I WILL NOT ALLOW ANY such SLANDEROUS DISCUSSION such as this. Any such post will be immediately deleted. No one can make that assertion because you do NOT know his intentions. In fact, you can make that accusation against many preachers, on the right and left of Christianity, but this is NOT the place for such discussions.

    You can discuss his thelogy, his arguments/thesis contained in his books but you CANNOT make direct judgements about his honesty.

    Is that OK?

    Cheers,

    YM


    Some links include -

    http://www.equip.org/

    http://www.gospelcom.net/apologetic...html#objections
     
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  2. solo66 man

    solo66 man Well-Known Member

    +2
    I am pretty familiar with and he is very credible in my opinion.
    He backs up he accusations with fact and I have actually witnessed some of the misdoings on tv. Such as Copland saying that without Abraham agreeing to do Gods covenent with him,
    God would have no dominion here. Also, the laughing and animal sound movement. These same people were selling that. I watched some of it on tbn back when I was first saved and it truely sounded like "hell". It was scarry. That was before I even heard of Hank Hanegraaff. I knw then there was something wrong. The Holy Spirit told me let me know, and I paid attention.

    Just yesterday, Creflo Dollar, one in the false revival, said we are equal with God because we are made in Gods image.
    These people must not realize the Holiness of God.

    Even though we are righteous by the blood of Christ, we are still Gods creation.
     
  3. Josh

    Josh Indeed.

    282
    +1
    Well shouldn't people be able to post what they think? I certainly won't be posting anything of the (above) sort, but some people may feel that way (and we can convince them otherwise :))...aren't we all intelligent enough to consider the source of any accusations? And as far as I know, the Bible Answer Man says some pretty good stuff.
     
  4. Yauming

    Yauming Member

    368
    +1
    Post whatever you think. Just don't claim you have a special insight on his personal morals.

    Well, the problem is that this forum will degenerate into people saying all kinds of subjective and nasty speculation/slander against each other then.

    Someone says that H does it for money.... then someone else says K does it for the glamor.... Mr ASDFG made heaps of money out of it- so he is obviously in it for personal gain. Church QWERT is more holy than Church YUIOP....... and on and on and on!!!!!!! That will go on forever. Its so easy to pass judgement. :(

    You can however object to the content of their message or to things which you can prove with substantial evidence. For example, I don't like Hank's message because of he said ABC. I don't agree with Kenny's message because of he said XYZ. I don't like Mr T. because swears too much.

    I'd rather the nasty [email protected] stuff stays with Jerry Springer, thanks.

    :)

    YM



     
  5. Blynn

    Blynn Well-Known Member

    +77
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    I also think that Hank Hanegaaf is credible. Listening to him opened my eyes to the fact that something is not right with these tv ministries.

    I think Soloman 66 makes a good point-- take some time out to watch the ministries Hank talks about.

    Then you can judge for yourself about what these preachers are teaching and what is being said.


    God Bless,
    Roberta
     
  6. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

    328
    +0
    My problem with Hank... I find that God assigns many tasks, has many job openings, but I can't find 'official fault finder' listed. A ministry has to be more than just examining everyone else under a microscope to expose their flaws. Does the bible teach us that when we catch a brother in sin we are to broadcast it to the world? Seems to me that the biblical approach is FIRST talk with the brother/sister, if that doesn't help SECOND to take witnesses, and as a LAST RESORT expose the sin and put them out of the congregation. In reading Hank I can't find where he has documented any of these steps or expressed any interest in handling the matter in the biblical manner.

    My last point is that Hank doesn't leave any room for his own errors/misconceptions/misunderstandings of scripture. He assumes his understanding is correct and that those who don't have the same understanding are therefore heretics or cultists, without allowing the possibility that somebody is simply not as knowledgable as they could be.
     
  7. Josh

    Josh Indeed.

    282
    +1
    This "counterfeit revival" is so huge, and growing I think, that you can't just talk with the brother/sister. In order for people to be reached, speaking needs to be done on a large scale. Also, if Hank broadcasts, then the people can know about this trap before they fall into it.
     
  8. solo66 man

    solo66 man Well-Known Member

    +2
    Exactly Josh,
    These people are making claims that were never in the Bible.
    Copland and the others agreeing that God has physical dimenshions just like ours. They say He is 6 feet and 2 inches tall.
    Wow, if we are all made in His exact likeness, why ares we all
    6' 2" tall? Also, that we are all gods. Interesting, sounds like Mormon doctrine. Did you know that over in India, so many people have died and become Gods that they have millions of gods.
    And Benny Hinn, claiming Jesus was going to appear on the platform with him at some of his revivals. Oh, ok.
    The real danger is they are the ones misleading new Christians and people unhappy with the realities of Christianity; That God
    is basically in control and we are not.
    They are stepping on the sovereignty of God.





     
  9. rkbo

    rkbo Member

    272
    +0
    Well the facts are that Hank does go to each of these people privately. Some meet with him others do not. He then tries several times. Now what do we do when a brother will not listen....that right, we take it to the Church.

    Jude 1:3-4
    3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
    4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
    (KJV)


    He is doing it right. This I know. One of the verses he quotes the most.
    1 Pet 3:15
    15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always {being} ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;
    (NAU)
     
  10. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    Good posts everyone. Those are some good, truthful posts about Hank and his integrity. I have been listening to him for close to 7 years now and if he wasn't the real deal I would have quit listening long ago. I have been given the gift of discernment I believe and with the memeory I have for scripture and the sermon's I have heard from several individuals, I have a good idea when a radio bible teacher is teaching truth, error, or absolute heresy. I don't find any major faults in Hank's ministry. Although we disagree on some secondary issues I still consider him a brother in Christ and I am thankful for the people he is helping from falling into the trap of these false teachers.

    Yauming,

    I thank you for the way you started this thread out, as that is the proper way to do things. We do not want to bear false witness against someone as is told in Deuteronomy 5:20.
    For me or anyone else to pass judgement on someone's motives is both wrong and unbiblical . Hank even tells this to listeners all the time when they ask things like, "Why does Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, etc. teach these things?" He always tells them that it is not his place to judge one's motives because "that is the perogative of the Holy Spirit alone." What bothers me is when people post web sites with "supposed" information about how Hamk is being sued, etc.
    Unless you are new to the internet, most people realize the web is full of bogus, unsubstantiated claims against bible teachers and bible subjects. I'm sure there is at least one web site that would even go so far as to say that Charles Spurgeon was a bad teacher despite the fact that he is referred to as the "prince of preachers" and is possibly the greatest human preacher of all time. I found one hyper-charismatic web site that claimed the NIV bible was "Satan's bible" because it didn't compare with the KJV which they revere as the autographa almost and take it to the point of being cultic. Be very weary of what you read online unless it is from a reputable source.

    God Bless
     
  11. norman

    norman aka pistis

    35
    +0
    Any story sounds true untill someone tells the other side and sets the record straight proverbs 18:17 (the living Bible)
    to the administrator who moved the thread, thank you for not booting me as most forums do, because of what i believe in, and i will refraim from attacking the person of hh, i would merley like to point out some of the dishonisty in Christanity in crisis book, and try and shed some light on what i believe being a member of the faith denomination.
    Let me start with this I believe that the Bible is the Word of God and the final word over any doctrins made by Man, I know for a fact that Jesus is my Lord my savior, and my God, I hold the Bible with the very higest of regard more so than my very life, it is the word of God, and my ancestors was martyred to give this plow boy that book. William Tyndale is my 11th great grand uncle, Dr. Rowland Taylor (in foxes book) is my 11th great grandfather he was married to Williams sister. (Margret)
    i am "these people" so kindly let me tell you what i believe. let me just answer that with these words.
    The law of faith is not some rigid demand that causes God to bow to our whim, but rather a principle by which we meet the conditions of God's covenant promises and God performs his promise. If God gives us a promise in his word we have the right to believe (faith) that God will deliver. His promises to us = God's will. and importantly this faith is not a head faith it is a "heart faith (spirit)" (That is one thing i can not understand why people claiming to be born again can not differentiate between a head faith (knowledge) and a heart faith (spirit)) The "heart faith" is the faith that God requires of us.
    let me quote this statment of faith
    Faith is the mightiest of the mighty. It is the monarch of the realms of the mind. There is no being superior to its strength, no creature that will not bow to its divine prowess. The lack of faith makes a person despicable; it shrivels him up so small that he might live in a nutshell. Give him faith, and he is a leviathan that can dive into the depths of the sea, a giant who takes nations and crumbles them in his hand, vanquishing hosts with his sword and gathering up all the crowns as his own. There is nothing like faith. Faith makes you almost as omnipotent as God, by borrowed power of its divinity. Give us faith and we can do all things

    the answer to who wrote it is Charles Spurgeon
    Spurgeon, Charles H. The Triumph of Faith in a Believer's Life (Lynnwood, WA: Emerald Books, 1994) p. 36. Compiled and edited by Robert Hall.

    now let me quote from scripture (kjv)
    romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    i have had christanity in crisis in my library for many years, truth of the matter is when, someone opposes what i believe i do examine what they have to say, to see which of the 2 stands up to what the Bible actually says, the Bible always wins. i used to study apolegetics so i am quite familuar with the major Christian doctrins ie salvation, trinity , etc. etc. when i would study a group that was labelled as a heretic, i gave that group the courtsey of examing their literature and examing it in the full context. that included if necessary going to old book stores and examining the books. ie "studies in the scriptures" a watchtower volume, i would even pop in on there meetings, to hear them, even went to there conventions to see if the acusations were correct, concerning the watchtower it is correct they are heretic, and i can proove it with the Bible, because i know what they trully believe,
    any how when i examined christanity in crisis, i knew right away this is not the message i hear in my little faith church. so to the book shelf it goes to gather dust. some of my brothers and sisters in the Lord want to labell me as a heretic, some even (r&r adminastrators) want to tell me i will go to hell if i do not repent, while i watch them take my very own words and pull them out of context and twist them, ok so now it is time to expose the mis quotes and twisting of words by my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.
    and yes thank you very much God does Bless me. hopefully you released those words from your lips, and did not just containg them. God bless you too.(spoken)
    http://www.faith-in-Jesus.org
     
  12. Josiah

    Josiah Super suction ears away!

    312
    +1
    Are you SURE he said that? If so, did you hear and understand the context of his ENTIRE point? I've heard Creflo Dolar and, while I disagree with the entire point of his ministry, I can't imagine him saying that and meaning exactly that...I don't know...you heard him, I didn't. All I'm saying is that you should be ABSOLUTELY sure you know what someone is saying in context before making charges (whether Creflo, or someone on this forum)...

    (I'm not necessarily challenging you...I guess it just sounds sort-of out-of-character for him)

    :D
     
  13. Yauming

    Yauming Member

    368
    +1
    Well that's OK Norman.

    My job as moderator is to ensure that the discussion keeps to civil levels.

    I think there's good and bad on both sides. My favorite song come from the Vineyard ministry- "I know my Redeemer Lives".

    I just wish that both sides could actually sit down on the same table and discuss their issues in a civil manner.. if they could behave like good Christians ALL THE BETTER.

    Welcome to the forum btw.

    Cheers,

    YM


     
  14. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    It wouldn't surprise me. I heard him say once, "How can you glorify God in a wheelchair?" He was being sarcastic and teaching that people are in wheelchair's because they don't have enough faith for God to heal them. I guess he has never heard of Joni Eareckson Tada, who is in my opinion just about the greatest example of a godly woman that there ever was! This guy is bad.

    God Bless
     
  15. Josh

    Josh Indeed.

    282
    +1
    such as?
     
  16. solo66 man

    solo66 man Well-Known Member

    +2
    Well, he did include the fact that we are made righteous by the blood of Jesus. But even including that, he has no idea of how holy God is. That is the only "excuse" I can come up with.
    he was denigrating the teaching that we need to be humble to the presence of God. He sasid we should be humble and meek like
    God but that now we are seen as righteous by God, we sohould not humble ourselve to God.

     
  17. solo66 man

    solo66 man Well-Known Member

    +2
    I once heard Fred Price say, on television, that the Holy Spirit would not inhabit a crippled or blind person.
    I agree that Joni Eareckson Tada is one of Godliest people I have ever seen. And it
    is because of her faith. She is definitely filled by the Holy Spirit.
    Amen!



     
  18. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    I stand corrected! It was Fred Price not Creflo Dollar.
    My appologies.

    God Bless
     
  19. solo66 man

    solo66 man Well-Known Member

    +2
    LOL no biggie.
    They pretty much all teach the same heresy. They are leading the flock into the gates of hell with the promise of money and power.
    Sad but true.
     
  20. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Monkey Boy

    +71
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    US-Republican
    solo66 man,

    "They pretty much all teach the same heresy. They are leading the flock into the gates of hell with money and power. Sad but true."

    Yes! Kenneth Copeland, Robert Tilden, Fred price and Creflo Dollar are all false prophets. By the way is Creflo Dollar his real name. I remember when I first saw him on tv. i laughed because I thought it was a joke. Then I cried because I found out it wasn't. But Dollar? Anyways they just can't seem to grasp that God never guaranteed wealth in this world. He guaranteed riches and blessings in the next. Also that the truly desirable blessings are not riches and fame but God Himself.

    Blackhaw6
     
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