Hang together or hang separately

[Christian Prepper]

This is an excerpt from Benjamin Franklin's quote when he was signing the Declaration of Independence. It is as true now as it was then. In order to survive economically in the future, we must join together, form sustainable communities that shares its resources with one another, or suffer the consequences by trying to go it alone. As the purchasing power of our debased currency continues, new ways to mitigate the problems are needed. Living together in community is a way. Agree? Disagree? Anyone interested?
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[Monksailor]

"No Man Is An Island." I sang that in glee club over a half a century ago. There seems to be credence for communal living, idealistically speaking. The first century Christians survived, for a while, like this. Eventually, though, they did abandon that, scattered, and "ran for the hills" literally. Even then, their enemies were able to more effectively find and target them as a group. Just think how easy it would be today with all of the technology we have today and its intimate/far/deep-reaching grasp; esp if as Snowden has pointed out, our social networks, phone companies, and search engine conglomerates have been/are also functioning as a source of personal data storehouses. A single person or very small group might survive detection at great, great sacrifice. As a Christian discussing the future and finances one cannot ignore the tangible ongoing process for a one-world financial system which is paving the way for the prophesied rule of evil. If she had gotten in the White House it would have been a LOT closer than I think many realize and their time is coming again and if that person is able to also grasp on some kind of reverse discrimination invisible ace up their sleeve who knows how much more anti-Christian legislation and liaisons will be accomplished. For over a decade there has been a massive main frame over in Europe, UK, I believe, ready for this world-wide, centralized economic system. Such an undertaking as I see you proposing would take a long time due the relocations of so many people and the creation of infrastructure.

 

[Christian Prepper]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. It would indeed take a couple of years to implement, and I do not know if we have that time available to us, but I think that the process of developing it and having a commonality of purpose can produce much spiritual fruit and is still worth the effort. "Many hands make light work", assuming that all hands are working together in harmony, can still accomplish much. Re: community, "a strand of three cords is not easily broken". If and when they come for us, we can draw strength from the group, whereas a man who stands alone is easily overpowered. Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Monksailor]

Yes, hardship can be easier to endure if you can share with others in it. You cannot deny that one would NEVER amass a large group of Christians to any effect of any kind toward a significant social majority though. Denominational-ism (What I call satan's "Divide and Conquer"), worldliness having significantly infiltrated the church, and certain legislation s/political agendas would make things so. One last thing then maybe others will ring in. Unless you believe that Christians are perfect once saved there is the other hindrance of every Christian in the group struggling with some sin. Thievery, gossip, lying, derision, envy, jealousy, murder, and on and on. They had to deal with this in the 1st century church. A husband and wife, Annanias and Saphira (sp?)(Acts 4, I believe) who lied about money they had gotten from selling some land to help out were both put to death as they stood before Peter, I believe. The church SHOULD be a safe harbor from the world for Christians, but unfortunately it cannot be, esp with church discipline having been mostly abandoned. Heaven WILL be not only a safe harbor but so much more for all eternity.

 

[Monksailor]

Good luck with that incentive. Noah had the whole world telling him his plan was crazy but we all know who was right.

 

[Christian Prepper]

I agree with you that Christians are subject to the same vices as the unsaved, however we have access to the Holy Spirit which can give us the power to avoid/overcome them. Interacting on a daily basis in a community setting is much more challenging than meeting once or twice a week in a typical church service. It is easy to show up once a week with a smile on your face and say nice things to each other as you whisk past them on your way out. It is much more difficult to employ the "one anothers", (love, exhort, devoted to, etc.) when you interact with other believers on a daily basis. But I believe that depth of relationship is what we are called to. It also requires much, especially much more sensitivity to the Spirit's leading. I suspect that the conventional church meetings are more popular and prominent because it doesn't require much from the participants.
With the first century church, everyone, apart from the apostles, were immature baby believers and Scripture was still being birthed. Today, we have the complete Scriptures and have believers at different levels of maturity. In community, interacting on a daily basis, the more mature believers model for the less mature what it is to be like Christ and growth occurs. Thanks again for your well wishes and your input.

 

[Monksailor]

Sounds good.

 

[Monksailor]

Christian Prepper,

At some time the following may be helpful:

• About trusting mankind, God informs us: Jeremiah 17:5; Psalms 118:5; Isaiah 2:22; Isaiah 31:3.
• About peace on earth and our familial relations, Jesus told us: Matthew 10:34-38; Luke 12:51-53.
• About when we are at the end of ourselves, disheartened and maybe even disillusioned, God comforts us: 2 Corinthians 12:9-10 and Matthew 11:28-30
• About trusting in our own understanding of things: Proverbs 3:5-6.

About what you propose. It has already been done successfully and still survives today. The only way, I believe, it or what you propose can is by having disconnected for the most part from our societies' technological super structure. Because that is what must be done to protect itself from governmental controls through monetary legislation/control or the power to shut off utilities. You probably will not find one active, loyal, and committed Amish online (probably disgruntled hasbeens full of negativity, complaining, and even misrepresentations of the truth.) But I could be wrong. Try reaching out to the Amish. They might even take you in. If I were a young man with a lot of physical productivity ahead of me I would consider it but I would have to study first their doctrine. From what I know about them and that is not much if I cancel TV (I have lived in areas where I regularly bumped into them) and from what I have learned and am seeing going on in our non-Amish society I think I would be greatly joyful to be an Amish. One thing I see, on TV for what that is worth, is that they still practice "church discipline" and possibly that is why they are still around and so successful even though as a society in the USA it is probably one of, if not the hardest, one to live for a lifetime. They believe in a strong work ethic and live in conditions which convey that. Most of us Americans are spoiled rotten in comparison to a lot of the world (and the Amish, I suppose), but we are surely not alone today in the world for that. We have become accustomed to having ALL of our needs met and so much more. Granted, that is the by-product of being a Capitalistic society and a nation which is at least now is vaguely known as a nation whose God is the Lord. But we have developed our technology and standard of living to such a degree that most today do not even know what hard work or sacrifice are any more or to be really hungry. Selfishness of a blessing is turning it into a curse. Jesus told a parable about the man who amassed great abundance and then transitioned into a life of leisure resting upon his wealth, so to speak. The end was not good for him at all.

One more thought, we Christians are not here for self-preservation or self-centered agendas. The body of Christ is here for following Christ; denying ourselves and taking up our cross for the world. At least that is what Jesus himself tells us being a follower of Him involves and elsewhere we are told that that other-focus is to be directed toward the unsaved in fulfilling the Great Commission of Acts 1:8 and elsewhere. This one thing I have against the Amish is their ethnocentrism and separatist life style which precludes hardly any effective involvement in the lives of those whom God would have. Oh there is some but if one were to examine it it would be quickly determined that it is something which they do in order to secure their self-preservation just as one might do if they were snowbirds tired of the winter cold and disguising their desire for warmer climates as a trip to evangelize those in the area.(I just read your Ad given in 1st post.)

By the way, is it true that Canada is so protective of homosexuality, sexual perversion as known by God, that if one publicly shares God's perspective in Ro ch.1 of homosexuality being a perversion or sin that they can be arrested, sentenced, and jailed?

Good luck to you brother.

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[Christian Prepper]

1. Far be it for me to criticize the Amish, but if I had one criticism, it would be the one that you stated. The community that I am proposing would have it's focus on; building each other up in the faith, sharing resources to promote equality, and outreach. We would share resources so that we can live on less and give the rest to existing charities and to build other communities in the U.S., Canada, Mexico, or wherever the Lord leads. As I had stated on my website, it is possible to live well in community on $15-20,000 per year. The rest would be available to invest in others. Depending on how much an individual had, it could be possible to give 50% or more to the Lord's work. I say this with joy as it is a joy to give. The community would invite the poor around us to also live in community with a focus on ministering to them. Wherever the community may go, it's focus is on others. When the economic crisis hits, there will be many more poor around us in Canada and the U.S.. Now, community living is only an option among many choices, then it will become the only viable way to mitigate the economic problems that will not only affect families, but churches and charities as well, since they are dependent upon large sums of money to keep their machinery moving. Unlike the Amish, I am not afraid to embrace technology, but only to the extent that it remains my servant and I do not become it's servant. I'll use an automic clothes washing machine because it can save me hours that I can invest in something hopefully, more important or life impacting.
2. Thanks again for your input and thoughts. I do feel the need to inform believers of what I believe is ahead of us and what I think is the solution. Even if an economic crisis did not come, I would still advocate for living in community because I believe that it is more effective and more financially efficient than the way of the contemporary western church.
3. Regarding speaking out about homosexual practices in Canada, I don't think that you can get arrested for it if you are saying that God does not approve of that lifestyle, but if you hate on the person, that might be frowned upon. I see a day coming soon when the freedom of the church to speak biblical truth, if it contradicts current law, will be curtailed. Perhaps the churches and anything Christian affiliated will lose their charitable status. Personally, I look forward to that day, because it will force the current Christian system to change and seek a model that is more effective and efficient, the very system that I am proposing.
   
   

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[Monksailor]

Far be it from you to criticize anyone, I think. But I see you WILL do it through another. How political of you. I was traveling between customers on the road in 2005 when I heard on the news that that in fact is the Law in Canada. Merely voicing IN LOVE that God regards homosexuality as sin is a crime in Canada; punishable by jail time. You and I, as Christians, are to love the sinner and hate the sinful behavior; including our own, but NO sin is acceptable. If we tolerate a behavior, it is NOT accepting it by the very nature of the word. Tolerating something by definition means that one finds it offensive, unagreeable, and/or repulsive among others but has decided to allow it to be practiced. We also are given an imperative command by God in His holy Word to take a stand against and expose evil. Regarding homosexual behavior, Canada has joined many countries of Europe and as we are quickly becoming. How would you treat homosexual BEHAVIOR, the sin not the individual, in your community? Would you allow marriage between same-sex partners? What kind of discipline to keep everybody in order, law enforcement, would you have? What kind of govt would you have? How would everybody know that every one else is contributing their fair share? ~"The human heart is deceitful above all things, who can know it?"~ Where is that, oh yeah, Jeremiah 17:9.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The selection of said community members is of great importance. Sad to have to say this... there are people out there looking for a free ride. Really hurts me to say it...
The Words says some things about those who would be on the receive side, but not the give side. But you are 100% correct.
I wonder if Paul had "assembly of yourselves together" as the day approaches in mind with our thoughts.
More later.

 

[Christian Prepper]

The selection of said community members is of great importance. Sad to have to say this... there are people out there looking for a free ride. Really hurts me to say it...
The Words says some things about those who would be on the receive side, but not the give side. But you are 100% correct.
I wonder if Paul had "assembly of yourselves together" as the day approaches in mind with our thoughts.
More later.

I agree that the selection of said community members is important and I am praying daily that God would send the right ones, specifically the initiators, the ones who have the resources to begin it. They need to be filled with the Spirit, as many in the early church were, or in the process of seeking to be on a daily basis. Some of the other members would also need to be seeking this. Living in community with others is much more demanding than attending a church service once a week, requiring submission to God and others, on a continual basis. Not everybody needs to be living on this high plane at the beginning, for there should be room for less mature believers to grow into maturity by observing Christ like behavior of the more mature believers. That is one of the main purposes of the community model. Later on, there would be room for unbelievers to join the community with the intent that they would be won to Christ through the daily lives of the believers. But first there must be a core of devoted followers of Christ who are willing to give for the sake of His kingdom. There will always be those who want a free ride as there were in the early church and throughout history. They must be exhorted, as per 2Thessalonians chapter 3, that if they do not work, neither shall they eat. Your caution though is well taken and discernment must be employed. Those who have that gift of discernment or wisdom would be valued in dealing with this issue. I appreciate your thoughts, in this thread and others, as they are intelligent and well expressed .

 

[gideon123]

I think that communities will form "naturally" when the amount of hardship increases. But I don't think that you can force it to happen. If you do that, you will be challenged legally. What's more likely, is that communities of like-minded people will gradually attract similar people.

You should also keep in mind - there is a great Spirit of Dissension operating in the world today. Sadly, it is very active inside Christianity and the churches. Therefore, even if you do attract people with faith, that does not guarantee harmony. I wish this was not true, but this is what I see happening.

These words are not meant to discourage you. Pray to the Lord and seek His guidance. My personal feeling is that only people with a great faith in their hearts will hold true to the Lord in the days to come. Many will fall away from the faith. But those with strong faith will hold true to the end.

Blessings!!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I also think the use of fear is a bad way to attract community members. The main concern may be "what can we get from this" and not "how can we contribute."
What do you, as a believer and a community member, have to offer your neighbor? Or are you just here for help? For instance I just purchased some inexpensive welding equipment and am going to learn to weld. I do not plan to make money with the skill.. but I would to add one more thing that might be helpful.
I know there will be people who are pretty much helpless. Some will have health issues. Some will really have to "get their minds right" about life, priorities, ownership and responsibility. That may be a struggle after years of being told they are special and entitled. These ones could actually turn into enemies of the cause. Be wise.

 

[drjean]

The idea sounds great. But there are caveats.
Remember the Pilgrims. The socialistic approach nearly killed them all. It wasn't until each one was responsible for their own garden and survival, to cooperate in trading with others, that they survived at all.

Also IF you are not part of the society that government controls (I'm thinking NWO here) they are going to be hunting down and shutting down any "outliers" of that society. So forming any kind of a commune is not advisable.

Fellowshipping is a must though. I agree.

The problem is you cannot set up any "agreed upon" ideas of where or when or how or such because they have access to everything written on the internet, everything said on the phone etc. BUT remember how the private Christian Jews proved they were of like-belief in the Messiah Jesus? Or how the Christians "know" each other in the moslem countries today? Something like that needs to be employed among those YOU KNOW for a fact are like minded. And something like no one "new" comes in until.... or unless....

IDK how you can do that. But surely it will be for those new believers during the tribulation, so?