JasonV

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This is a forum for canonical Eastern Orthodox, with which you do not commune.... please do not pose as a canonical Eastern Orthodox poster, because you are not...But let’s just be honest.

Canonical implies following the canons. Which as Fr Matt has so aptly pointed out numerous times, we both seem to violate. TAW has decided that certain canonical violations are acceptable for one to be considered within the church, while certain other violations means one is without. For the purposes of this INTERNET FORUM, I am considered without. But as far as the Fathers are concerned, TAW is NOT the standard by which such a determination is made, just so you know.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Canonical implies following the canons. Which as Fr Matt has so aptly pointed out numerous times, we both seem to violate. TAW has decided that certain canonical violations are acceptable for one to be considered within the church, while certain other violations means one is without. For the purposes of this INTERNET FORUM, I am considered without. But as far as the Fathers are concerned, TAW is NOT the standard by which such a determination is made, just so you know.

well, it's not just that you have some canonical violations. that happens all the time (sadly). you broke from and left the canonical Church. no Father responded to heresy as you did.
 
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Jeremy might want to skip this post :eek::eek:o_O:confused:

you shouldn't take offense, it's just honesty. like Rome ain't Catholic no matter what they say, and the non-Chalcedonians aren't Orthodox either.
 
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Jesus4Madrid

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Canonical implies following the canons. Which as Fr Matt has so aptly pointed out numerous times, we both seem to violate. TAW has decided that certain canonical violations are acceptable for one to be considered within the church, while certain other violations means one is without. For the purposes of this INTERNET FORUM, I am considered without. But as far as the Fathers are concerned, TAW is NOT the standard by which such a determination is made, just so you know.
I see what you did there. You are just redefining canonical to include your little, schismatic group and exclude the Orthodox Church. You may find that satisfying. I certainly wouldn’t.
 
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JasonV

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I see what you did there. You are just redefining canonical to include your little, schismatic group and exclude the Orthodox Church. You may find that satisfying. I certainly wouldn’t.

I did not "redefine" anything. I merely clarified the facts.
 
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Lukaris

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I did not "redefine" anything. I merely clarified the facts.


Do you consider offering advice to a person looking for Christian faith perhaps outside the Orthodox Church, because of logistics, wrong? If that person can find a Christian group that at least believes in God as defined in the Creed, love of God & neighbor, the golden rule ( Matthew 7:1-12), & the 10 commandments is to no avail? Are not these core to Orthodoxy?
 
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JasonV

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Do you consider offering advice to a person looking for Christian faith perhaps outside the Orthodox Church, because of logistics, wrong?

I would no more tell a thirsty man to drink from a poisoned well, than I would tell someone to go to a non-Orthodox church.
 
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rusmeister

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Do you consider offering advice to a person looking for Christian faith perhaps outside the Orthodox Church, because of logistics, wrong? If that person can find a Christian group that at least believes in God as defined in the Creed, love of God & neighbor, the golden rule ( Matthew 7:1-12), & the 10 commandments is to no avail? Are not these core to Orthodoxy?
Sadly, Christian groups cannot maintain those things without the Church. Even the Church itself can hardly maintain them. “Mere Christianity” was an actual error on Lewis’s part, and is not Orthodox. The creed says nothing about fornication, let alone same-sex sexual relations, nor do the 10 Commandments nor the golden rule, and yet we have people IN the Church trying to promote a “new morality”. What can we say then outside the Church? Orthodoxy is a whole, not some minimalist “What do I have to agree with, and what - not?” religion.
 
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Lukaris

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I think, “thou shalt not commit adultery” should encompass what St. Paul preaches in Romans 1. This is the same moral code retained from Leviticus 18, Leviticus 19, Leviticus 20 etc. I believe. The extreme punishments (stoning etc.) are abolished by the Sermon on the Mount but sin is still sin.
 
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rusmeister

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I think, “thou shalt not commit adultery” should encompass what St. Paul preaches in Romans 1. This is the same moral code retained from Leviticus 18, Leviticus 19, Leviticus 20 etc. I believe. The extreme punishments (stoning etc.) are abolished by the Sermon on the Mount but sin is still sin.
Of course, in theory. If everyone always sought to obey that code rather than find loopholes and ways around it. What I said previously still holds. You need the Church, and the others are imitations and attempts that are not the Church. And they fall away, for a fact. Look at the Episcopalians, for crying out loud! Even the Anglicans! They are now cool with same-sex relations, among other things. Those bare minimums you propose did not keep them from falling away. And those falls don’t stop. You keep on falling.

Without the Church of Christ, a few here and there might maintain truth and grace, on an individual level, but most in those organizations won’t. Suggesting that there is “a bare minimum” is to mislead people into thinking they don’t need the Church.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Of course, in theory. If everyone always sought to obey that code rather than find loopholes and ways around it. What I said previously still holds. You need the Church, and the others are imitations and attempts that are not the Church. And they fall away, for a fact. Look at the Episcopalians, for crying out loud! Even the Anglicans! They are now cool with same-sex relations, among other things. Those bare minimums you propose did not keep them from falling away. And those falls don’t stop. You keep on falling.

Without the Church of Christ, a few here and there might maintain truth and grace, on an individual level, but most in those organizations won’t. Suggesting that there is “a bare minimum” is to mislead people into thinking they don’t need the Church.

agreed. Orthodoxy is the experience of an unchanging Person, not a concept which can be argued and updated with the time.
 
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Lukaris

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There is so often no church to attend in much of America. It can be physically impossible for many to travel long distances. It is only on the basis of logistics & last resort that I would suggest any alternative (a limited selection at that). So many people are just isolated.
 
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Dorothea

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Since I didn't grow up being taught my faith or practicing it, only that God existed, I grew up pretty secular. I dressed up every Halloween, and was excited to do so. But my best friend and I were just discussing the changes in the Halloween fun from when we were children. I wandered the neighborhood with my friends, going to houses all over, and some were strangers. I stayed out until at least nine o'clock. It was clean fun. I dressed like Bugs Bunny, the Bionic Woman--the latter I remember well because it was such a cool costume with the sleeve of bionics painted on it. haha.

Anyway, when the poisons, nails, etc. found in Halloween candy started surfacing...I think it was in the mid or late '80s, and then the problems with animals, people's pets, especially cats, being snatched up and sacrificed by some Satan worshipers in the late '80s, early '90s, and we all had to make sure our pets were in, Halloween had changed. It eventually came to the point where you'd barely seen anybody out on Halloween, or parents would drive their kids to certain known houses and drop them off to walk up to door for treats. And then it got to the point that kids were driven to the local hospital to have their candy run through an x-ray machine. I remember seeing that on the news some time in the early 1990s. Really sad.

So, by the time I had children, I didn't have them participate in going treat-or-treating, but did allow them to dress up and hand out candy when they were toddlers and early grade school age. Then, we just didn't celebrate it at all and made it a tradition to go out to eat Halloween night when the restaurants were sparsely populated.

But in the past five to seven years, I regretted not letting my boys go out and trick-or-treat. Another sad thing is not since we lived in Fountain Colorado (left there in 2013) have we had any children in our neighborhood come door-to-door. I bought a whole bunch of candy while we lived in MA, and nobody came to our door, and nobody walked the sidewalks of our neighborhood. It is the same here in Lancaster, PA. Apparently, I was told the kids and their families congregate at one person's house or a community center for Halloween parties and the like. That saddens me because we've lost the fun of wandering our neighborhoods (at least where I've lived) and it was a sense of community doing that when everyone knew each other, and the kids would gather in the streets and yards and play every day outside. I feel my kids' generation and the one after have been cheated this.
 
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Lukaris

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Since I didn't grow up being taught my faith or practicing it, only that God existed, I grew up pretty secular. I dressed up every Halloween, and was excited to do so. But my best friend and I were just discussing the changes in the Halloween fun from when we were children. I wandered the neighborhood with my friends, going to houses all over, and some were strangers. I stayed out until at least nine o'clock. It was clean fun. I dressed like Bugs Bunny, the Bionic Woman--the latter I remember well because it was such a cool costume with the sleeve of bionics painted on it. haha.

Anyway, when the poisons, nails, etc. found in Halloween candy started surfacing...I think it was in the mid or late '80s, and then the problems with animals, people's pets, especially cats, being snatched up and sacrificed by some Satan worshipers in the late '80s, early '90s, and we all had to make sure our pets were in, Halloween had changed. It eventually came to the point where you'd barely seen anybody out on Halloween, or parents would drive their kids to certain known houses and drop them off to walk up to door for treats. And then it got to the point that kids were driven to the local hospital to have their candy run through an x-ray machine. I remember seeing that on the news some time in the early 1990s. Really sad.

So, by the time I had children, I didn't have them participate in going treat-or-treating, but did allow them to dress up and hand out candy when they were toddlers and early grade school age. Then, we just didn't celebrate it at all and made it a tradition to go out to eat Halloween night when the restaurants were sparsely populated.

But in the past five to seven years, I regretted not letting my boys go out and trick-or-treat. Another sad thing is not since we lived in Fountain Colorado (left there in 2013) have we had any children in our neighborhood come door-to-door. I bought a whole bunch of candy while we lived in MA, and nobody came to our door, and nobody walked the sidewalks of our neighborhood. It is the same here in Lancaster, PA. Apparently, I was told the kids and their families congregate at one person's house or a community center for Halloween parties and the like. That saddens me because we've lost the fun of wandering our neighborhoods (at least where I've lived) and it was a sense of community doing that when everyone knew each other, and the kids would gather in the streets and yards and play every day outside. I feel my kids' generation and the one after have been cheated this.


Yes, the days when things like the Monster Mash by Bobby Pickett colored our childhood halloween experience are sadly gone.
 
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