Halal Explained

[TG123]

Just a summation of how I see things.

Based upon the Ahadith and taking simply the intent of them the conclusion I come to:

1. We are not specifically commanded to kill anything

2. It is allowed for us to kill animals that are harmful or dangerous.


My own actions are when I find something that poses a threat is I that will take it and move it to an area where it poses no problem. I am not required to kill them. but if I were not able to catch them, or was afraid to capture them, there would be no sin in my killing them

I agree with your approach, and think that Islam does teach point 2. I think that the hadiths do state clearly however, that Muhammad did command that some animals be killed. Some of them, like crows and rabid dogs and poisonous snakes and mice, are harmful. Others, like the salamander, pose no more threat to humans than frogs, which are not to be killed. And others, like kites, are actually quite beneficial.

While Muhammad ordered kites and salamanders to be wiped out because of the harm they allegedly pose to people, he didn't say anything (to my knowledge) about animals like jackals and baboons, which actually do cause a lot of destruction to livestock and farms and sometimes whole villages.

 

[TG123]

I was in a plane crash and essentially shattered every bone in my body. The most serious were my right leg was pulverized from my hip to knee along with my right arm was pretty much powdered every rib was broken and multiple head fractures.
There were also several bullet wounds in various and assorted parts of my body. there was also considerable blood loss that most likely caused shock.

Yes this was a military incident while in the USAF

The assumption was that I was not capable of feeling pain so there were no pain medications given until I cam out of the coma. But I do vividly remember many things from while I was unconscious especially the pain.

I'm sorry to hear about the accident, and the suffering and pain you went through.

 

[smaneck]

While Muhammad ordered kites and salamanders to be wiped out because of the harm they allegedly pose to people,

Did he? The ahadith say contrary things in regards to this even though the isnad supposedly goes back to the same person, Aisha:

Narrated 'Aisha the wife of the Prophet: Allah's Apostle called the salamander a bad animal, but I did not hear him ordering it to be killed."
Sahih Bukhari 3:29:57

But then we have this:

Saa’ibah the slave woman of al-Faakih ibn al-Mugheerah [said] that she entered upon ‘Aa’ishah and saw a spear sitting there in her house. She said, “O Mother of the Believers, what do you do with this?” She said, “We kill these salamanders with it, because the Prophet of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that when Ibraaheem was thrown into the fire, there was no animal on earth but it tried to extinguish the fire, except for the salamander, which was blowing on the fire (to keep it burning). So the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded that they should be killed.”[1]
Sunan Ibn Maajah, No. 3222.

Obviously both of these hadith can't be true. Either Aisha heard the prophet say kill salamanders or she didn't. In my mind it demonstrates just how problematic these hadith are, even though both are supposedly 'sahih.' But the reference to salamandars and fire is an interesting one. People in both medieval Europe and medieval Islam believed that salamandars were impervious to fire, that in fact they lived in fire.

he didn't say anything (to my knowledge) about animals like jackals and baboons, which actually do cause a lot of destruction to livestock and farms and sometimes whole villages.

In Arabia?

 

[TG123]

Did he? The ahadith say contrary things in regards to this even though the isnad supposedly goes back to the same person, Aisha:

Narrated 'Aisha the wife of the Prophet: Allah's Apostle called the salamander a bad animal, but I did not hear him ordering it to be killed."
Sahih Bukhari 3:29:57

But then we have this:

Saa’ibah the slave woman of al-Faakih ibn al-Mugheerah [said] that she entered upon ‘Aa’ishah and saw a spear sitting there in her house. She said, “O Mother of the Believers, what do you do with this?” She said, “We kill these salamanders with it, because the Prophet of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that when Ibraaheem was thrown into the fire, there was no animal on earth but it tried to extinguish the fire, except for the salamander, which was blowing on the fire (to keep it burning). So the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded that they should be killed.”[1]
Sunan Ibn Maajah, No. 3222.

Obviously both of these hadith can't be true. Either Aisha heard the prophet say kill salamanders or she didn't. In my mind it demonstrates just how problematic these hadith are, even though both are supposedly 'sahih.' But the reference to salamandars and fire is an interesting one. People in both medieval Europe and medieval Islam believed that salamandars were impervious to fire, that in fact they lived in fire.

This also looks like a contradiction to me. I would be looking forward to hear what the Muslim posters think. There is probably a way to reconcile them, I'm looking forward to hearing from the Muslims.

In Arabia?

Check out the links in the post.

 

[WoodrowX2]

The Ahadith even the Sahih ones are often problematic.

While we can be certain the person did say what is stated, what we often do no know is the context of the conversation and who was being spoken to or the complete topic.

I am not a Hadith rejector, but I do not see the Ahadith as something a person without a solid background in past understandings is capable of explaining.

I have to admit I am very much a newcomer to the study of Ahadith and feel like a novice.

 

[TG123]

The Ahadith even the Sahih ones are often problematic.

While we can be certain the person did say what is stated, what we often do no know is the context of the conversation and who was being spoken to or the complete topic.

I am not a Hadith rejector, but I do not see the Ahadith as something a person without a solid background in past understandings is capable of explaining.

I have to admit I am very much a newcomer to the study of Ahadith and feel like a novice.

Salaam Alaikum and thanks for sharing. I think there are things that Muhammad said that were very wise and intelligent, and others that were just dead wrong. I think the hadiths are evidence of that, and that may be the reason that there are some Muslims who reject them.

 

[BaconWizard]

That is because you Brits don't know how to prepare it properly. Lamb needs rosemary and garlic!

You know why the British acquired an Empire? So someone else could do their cooking for them.

Meant with all humour.. but GET BENT! I was a chef for 15 years and am now a consultant in the curing of meats. Lamb is very frequently prepared with rosemary and garlic, but there are plenty alternatives.

ANYWAY...

I have recently been advising a client of mine who runs a Halal burger restaurant. It is NOT haram to stun the animal first, and it is done that way in many cases. The same is not true for Kosher, where stunning cannot take place.

As we speak, I have 2 shoulders of lamb curing in phrygian-style spices, and Free-range rose-veal curing also. Both were stunned and are halal.

 

[Lollerskates]

That is because you Brits don't know how to prepare it properly. Lamb needs rosemary and garlic!

You know why the British acquired an Empire? So someone else could do their cooking for them.

Meant with all humour.. but GET BENT! I was a chef for 15 years and am now a consultant in the curing of meats. Lamb is very frequently prepared with rosemary and garlic, but there are plenty alternatives.

ANYWAY...

[snip]

In general, lamb (and all game) needs spices/herbs like cinnamon, cumin, rosemary, dill, etc. to remove the gaminess. (Even though the Hebrews knew how to make lamb, it was a point to hit home when God told the Hebrews to get lamb and bitter herbs and eat them...salting the herbs in water. It would take care of the gaminess.) Both of you are right, obviously. Just different sides of the coin.

If you make goat or a lamb without these type of spices, no matter how good of a chef you are it will have a "funk" taste - that is the gaminess. Some people like that. I knew someone that said they liked goat meat cooked as is, and as old as cotton. YUCK!

I usually use a cinnamin, cumin and dill rub for my lamb or game. Mustard crusts work nicely for lamb chops .

 

[Eyes wide Open]

I prefere lamb not to raised for human consumption as it's no longer required if you push a trolley to obtain your food. Just saying, seeing as you guys get to say how you like it.

 

[wn123455]

Halal: A Taste of Terror | FrontPage Magazine

 

[Eyes wide Open]

Halal: A Taste of Terror | FrontPage Magazine

I don't read your links out of principal, as you are biased in your views. So even if your message is valid its lost in your inability to converse in a balenced manner.

 

[wn123455]

I don't read your links out of principal, as you are biased in your views. So even if your message is valid its lost in your inability to converse in a balenced manner.

Halal: A Taste of Terror | FrontPage Magazine

“Beware! Halal food funds terrorists.” Stickers with this slogan were sold in July by a candidate of the Australian political party One Nation, and condemned by the country’s Multicultural Affairs Minister Glen Elmes as “offensive, grotesque and designed to inflame hatred.” He added: “People are encouraged to put the stickers on food products in supermarkets, which isn’t just racial discrimination, it’s also vandalism.”

What the sticker says, though, is apparently taking place in the USA and Canada where Campbell’s Soup and other companies have paid the Hamas-linked Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) for their halal certification, in France, where it is claimed that 60% of halal food is controlled by organizations belonging to the Muslim Brotherhood and the so-called “halal tax” is the organization’s main source of funding. In the UK, major supermarket chain Morrisons is not only indirectly but even directly giving money to the Islamic National Zakat Foundation. I’ll explain what that is about in a minute.

 

[awitch]

Hey wn123455,

You need to step up your material. No need to thank me and feel free to pass this around to as many sites as you can:

You know the crab nebula? It was Muslims who made the star go supernova.

Remember the Titanic? Guess who put the iceberg in the ship's path.

You know how the moon has all of those craters? They're from the hundreds of terrorist training camps practicing their bomb making skills. I bet the dark side of the moon has already fallen to Sharia Law.

And don't even get me started on what REALLY happened to the dinosaurs.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

Halal: A Taste of Terror | FrontPage Magazine

That doesn't change your biased view does it, which is what I commented on. Try and post some links about Islam that you find positive and you may change my mind. See what you can dig up, you are obviously highly skilled with a keyboard.

 

[wn123455]

Muslim Butcher Who Chopped Up Baby Wants $5300 for Not Being Fed Halal | FrontPage Magazine

A baby killer who won $3000 compensation last year because he was forced to eat vegetables instead of halal meat in jail now wants more money.

Akhtar Ali, who is serving a life sentence for chopping up his newborn baby, has appealed for the payout to be doubled to $6000 (about $5300 American dollars.)

Former butcher Ali was fed a vegetarian diet in Maryborough Correctional Centre for four months, instead of specially prepared halal meat in accordance with his religious requirements.

“I’m disgusted,” Helen Blackwell, the grandmother of murdered baby Chahleen, said yesterday after being told of Ali’s bid to double his money.

 

[awitch]

Muslim Butcher Who Chopped Up Baby Wants $5300 for Not Being Fed Halal | FrontPage Magazine

Do you know why Star Wars Episode I was so bad? Muslims switched Lucas's script with their own at the last minute when no one was looking.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Halal: A Taste of Terror | FrontPage Magazine

From the link

What the sticker says, though, is apparently taking place in the USA and Canada where Campbell’s Soup and other companies have paid the Hamas-linked Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) for their halal certification, in France, where it is claimed that 60% of halal food is controlled by organizations belonging to the Muslim Brotherhood and the so-called “halal tax” is the organization’s main source of funding. In the UK, major supermarket chain Morrisons is not only indirectly but even directly giving money to the Islamic National Zakat Foundation. I’ll explain what that is about in a minute.

There are no Central Halal certification agencies in the USA. However there are 3 agencies that will do certification. None of which is the ISNA

US

IFANCA (The Islamic Food and Nutrition Council of America ) | IFANCA: Halal Food Certification

ISA (Islamic Service of America) | Home - Islamic Services of America

AHF (American Halal Foundation ) | Halal Food Council (USA)

SOURCE


But an agency is not required any producer could get any Muslim to Certify his meat is halal and he could simply print Halal on his label. the truth in advertising laws would be sufficient to enforce the validity of the label

 

[wn123455]

From the link



There is not Central Halal certification agencies in the USA. However there are 3 agencies that will do certification. None of which is the ISNA



SOURCE


But an agency is not required any producer could get any Muslim to Certify his meat is halal and he could simply print Halal on his label. the truth in advertising laws would be sufficient to enforce the validity of the label

 

[WoodrowX2]

Those are labels from around the world. Also some, probably many, seem to be made by the producer and not affiliated with any agency.

 

[light upon light]

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