Halal Explained

[WoodrowX2]

Last I checked they are about 20% now. They reproduce faster.

That is quick. Last I heard Only about 15% of all Muslim were not Sunni and the Shi'ite made up about 10% of the Muslim population. the other 5% being Sufi etc.

 

[smaneck]

Are you declaring Shias to be non-muslims?

He is simply saying that the Hizbullah don't get to define what Muslims can believe or do.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Human flesh kebabs - Muslim cannibals in Britain - YouTube

I forgot to mention the video was uploaded on youtube in 2008, 6 years ago. so far there has been no conviction and no evidence of what happened to the girl. Only an allegation by an unreliable witness, testifying to what he was allegedly told.

So far there is no proof as to what happened to the girl.

 

[smaneck]

That is quick. Last I heard Only about 15% of all Muslim were not Sunni and the Shi'ite made up about 10% of the Muslim population. the other 5% being Sufi etc.

Sufis are usually included among Sunni Muslims except for the very few Sufi Orders that are Shi'ite (Nimatullahis, Bekhtashis.)

Back during the first Gulf War Shi'ites in Iraq were still the minority. Today they are the majority. When Lebanon was formed there were more Sunnis than Shi'ites there and now it is the other way around.

 

[smaneck]

I forgot to mention the video was uploaded on youtube in 2008, 6 years ago. so far there has been no conviction and no evidence of what happened to the girl. Only an allegation by an unreliable witness, testifying to what he was allegedly told.

So far there is no proof as to what happened to the girl.

They were in fact acquitted on the retrial. For more on the victim:

Innocence Betrayed - Charlene Downes

"No one knows where the abuse of Charlene Downes ended, but it began at home."

Now are you going to ask whether Christians believe making their own daughters into prostitutes, wn? Or is such slander reserved for Muslims?

Proverbs 10:8

 

[WoodrowX2]

Islamic Teacher Arrested for Cannibalism, Selling Body Parts | FrontPage Magazine

Obama’s Favorite Islamic University Goes Zombie, Tells High School Students They Can Kill and Eat Apostates, As Long As They Don’t Cook Them | FrontPage Magazine

In the first link this occured in the Islamic part of Nigeria (Lagos) the man was arrested and convicted in an Islamic court.

Question: If this is permitted in Islam why did an Islamic court convict him?

The second link:

Despite some of the rhetoric in this video, this is probably not an invitation for Cannibal Islamist mobs to begin roaming the streets devouring the flesh of apostates. It would make for a hell of a zombie movie though.
This translation is unverified, but there have been similar Fatwas on cannibalism before, and they involve eating human flesh when you are truly hungry, as implied by “necessary condition.”
That would mean that if you’re fighting the Americans in Afghanistan and your goat rations are running really low, and you need your strength to go on fighting the infidels, you can kill a local Shiite and eat him. It does not however mean that you can just run around eating Shiites on a non-emergency basis.

This is basically the same ruling most Christian denominations made about the Plane crash in the andes and the survivors resorted to cannibalism.

All of the passengers were Roman Catholic. According to Read, some rationalized the act of necrotic cannibalism as equivalent to the ritual of Holy Communion, or justified it according to a Bible verse (no man hath greater love than this: that he lay down his life for his friends). Others initially had reservations, though after realizing that it was their only means of staying alive, changed their minds a few days later. Read reports that one older female passenger, Liliana, although not seriously injured in the crash, refused to eat human flesh due to her strong religious convictions -- she died shortly thereafter, in the avalanche.

SOURCE

The same Christian ruling was made when the Donner expedition resorted to cannibalism.

In the spring of 1846, a group of nearly 90 emigrants left Springfield, Illinois, and headed west. Led by brothers Jacob and George Donner, the group attempted to take a new and supposedly shorter route to California. They soon encountered rough terrain and numerous delays, and they eventually became trapped by heavy snowfall high in the Sierra Nevada Mountains. Purportedly reduced to cannibalism to survive through the winter, only half of the original group reached California the following year. Their story quickly spread, and before long the term “Donner Party” became synonymous with one of humanity’s most ingrained taboos.

SOURCE

A particularly moving instance is when the survivors talk about when they realized that they were going to have to eat the dead in order to live. I don't know why this never occurred to me but it is not as if it were a plane full of strangers, which would be horrific enough in itself. These people were all friends and, in some cases, close family members. Just watching the faces of those speaking gives an immense depth of feeling to the horror of the very idea when it surfaces and then again when it becomes clear that cannibalism must be carried out. For those who were deeply Catholic, the thought that helped carry them through was that Christ himself gave his body and blood to his followers through Holy Communion. They said that if Christ did such a thing surely they would be forgiven for following those actions through their extreme reluctance. This subject is treated with the utmost respect and reverence on all levels.

SOURCE

 

[wn123455]

Kosovo PM is head of human organ and arms ring, Council of Europe reports | World news | The Guardian

 

[WoodrowX2]

Kosovo PM is head of human organ and arms ring, Council of Europe reports | World news | The Guardian

Did you read the article? You might not have read the last couple of paragraphs

"Today, the Guardian published an article that referred to a report from a member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, Dick Marty, which follows up on past reports published over the last 12 years aiming at maligning the war record of the Kosovo Liberation Army and its leaders," it said in a statement.
"The allegations have been investigated several times by local and international judiciary, and in each case, it was concluded that such statements have were not based on facts and were construed to damage the image of Kosovo and the war of the Kosovo Liberation Army.
"It is clear that someone wants to place obstacles in the way of prime minister, Hashim Thaçi, after the general election, in which the people of Kosovo placed their clear and significant trust in him to deliver the development programme and governance of our country.
"Such despicable and bizarre actions by people with no moral credibility, serve the ends of only those specific circles that do not wish well to Kosovo and its people."
• This article was amended on 15 December 2010. The original dated the Kosovo conflict to 1999 alone. This has been clarified.

 

[wn123455]

Organ theft in Kosovo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[WoodrowX2]

Organ theft in Kosovo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From your link

On January 12, 2013 Haradinaj and two other high-ranking officials from the KLA were acquitted from all charges regarding war crimes, including organ harvesting

 

[wn123455]

From your link

Organ theft in Kosovo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In January 2011, The Guardian released NATO documents from 2004 that identified Hashim Thaçi as under the control of the Albanian mafia, in particular former KLA chief of logistics Xhavit Haliti. Haliti, who "serves as a political and financial adviser to the prime minister", was described as "highly involved in prostitution, weapons and drugs smuggling".[55] According to the article, Haliti uses fake passports to travel abroad because he is blacklisted in several countries, including the United States. "Haliti is also named in the report by Marty, which is understood to have drawn on NATO intelligence assessments along with reports from the FBI and MI5," according to the article.[56]

On 17 February 2011, the media obtained a classified document[57] which suggests that the UN knew about the organ trafficking and the criminal involvement of senior KLA commanders as early as 2003. On 20 February 2011, Jose Pablo Baraybar, former UNMIK Forensics and Missing Persons Office head, confirmed that the United Nations was given confidential material about organ trafficking in Kosovo by an anonymous official.[46] The statements, compiled in 30-pages, were made to the UN by at least eight "low to midlevel ranking KLA members".[58] The documents have been given the name "CX-103".[59]

 

[WoodrowX2]

Organ theft in Kosovo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You didn't read down far enough. You left out March 2011

In March 2011, Marty presented his report to the European Parliament’s Committee on Foreign Affairs, whose members said after the meeting that Marty did not provide any evidence, while some of them claimed that he attacked and accused of bias those who questioned his report. In a heated debate, Marty told the MEPs that a witness protection program was needed in Kosovo, before he could provide more details on witnesses to the trafficking as their lives were in danger

 

[TG123]

Alhamdulillah.

Indeed. We should not be afraid to acknowledge the truth, wherever it exists.

Let's agree to disagree.

Did you see the videos I posted?

See this one in particular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EYjvArbwnE

For some reason it starts at 1:45, at the point the goat is killed. If you want to see the entirety you have to go back a bit.

The woman who slaughtered this goat did a superb job, wouldn't you agree? The animal was softly spoken to and kept chewing grass until the mallet came down. When it's throat was cut, it barely even twitched. It was either unconscious or dead, but showed no signs of any pain whatsoever. It seemed to peacefully be sleeping. I encourage you to watch the video, even if there is blood.

Tell me whether you see this animal experiencing any stress or suffering either before or during its execution.

Halal Mercy Farm posted a second video, which shows the animals being slaughtered. Before they are calmed down for the knife, some of them do kick and try to get away. "Bismilla allahu akhbar" is said a few times, and in the same time they are physically being restrained.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUOOcIivwTY

I think that both butchers do a great job in making the death for their goats as painless as necessary. I would argue however that the woman in the first video did a better job, in making sure the animal experienced no stress or pain whatsoever. Would you agree?

In giving it a quick death? Why wouldn't it?

The house gecko (wazagh) | IslamToday - English

Muhammad did teach that people will get blessed, and not punished, if they kill it with more than one blow. There are less blessings, but they are still blessed and not punished.

Also, in terms of its interaction with people, geckos do more good than harm. Their diet primarily consist of insects, which, as we know, often spread harmful diseases.
Geckos

Geckos are small lizards famous for their ability to walk up walls and other sheer vertical surfaces, and to hang from ceilings. However, they come a cropper if they attempt to climb on non-stick surfaces! They're welcome creatures to have around in the house as they feast on the insects you don't generally want inside.

BBC Nature - Geckos videos, news and facts

Most lizards are harmless and benefit humans by controlling insect populations. Some species are a source of food; some are killed for their skins, although it is now illegal to do so in many countries. A number of species are threatened by encroachment on their habitat, and the largest living lizard, the Komodo dragon, is on the endangered species list.
Lizards -

The source you cited states that geckos are a pest, since people can get a rash by touching them. There is no need to touch them! Would anyone in their right mind touch a spider? Yet spiders are not considered pests, are they?

I think that allowing a gecko (or any other lizard, except a Komodo Dragon) in one's house is a good idea if you live in an area where there is a high risk of disease spread by flies and other bugs. I think that following Muhammad's advice to kill lizards in an area where there are diseases spread by certain insects, is a bad idea.

As a side note, I am against fishing for sport. It just seems so cruel to catch fish, make a hole in their mouths, and then release them solely for our entertainment. According to this link, it is prohibited to take part in such activity.

It also states, "As a general rule, it is unlawful to kill animals except for food or to protect ourselves from harm..."

"....We cannot even kill insects except if they cause harm to us in some way, and then we may kill them only to the extent that we must in order to safeguard ourselves from their harm. Evidence for this is that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “A prophet once sat under a tree when he got bitten by an ant so he burnt the ant’s village. Allah inspired to him: Why not only one ant?” [Sahîh Muslim]"

Alhamdulillah. I can never praise Him enough for the religion He blessed us with.

I agree that fishing as a sport is cruel and stupid. I knew that since childhood, and before I knew what Islam is.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Did you see the videos I posted?

Those videos don't change my mind that the way God told us to slaughter animals is the best way. So as I said, let's agree to disagree.

Muhammad did teach that people will get blessed, and not punished, if they kill it with more than one blow. There are less blessings, but they are still blessed and not punished.

And?

The source you cited states that geckos are a pest, since people can get a rash by touching them. There is no need to touch them! Would anyone in their right mind touch a spider? Yet spiders are not considered pests, are they?

And there is no reason to touch poisonous snakes and they eat other harmful things (such as mice). That doesn't mean I'm going to allow them in my house where they pose a danger to people who are in the house.

I agree that fishing as a sport is cruel and stupid. I knew that since childhood, and before I knew what Islam is.

Great. That doesn't take away from how amazing Islaam is and why I'm so grateful for this religion and see it as the biggest and most important blessing in my life.

For someone who commends that my religion teaches some good things, you sure are going out of your way to say that it's not anything special.

 

[TG123]

Those videos don't change my mind that the way God told us to slaughter animals is the best way. So as I said, let's agree to disagree.

Fair enough. Have you watched them, though?

I am not disputing that the halal method of slaughter is how you believe God tells Muslims to kill animals you are about to consume. I am also not dis

I am saying only that it is not the most humane method. You made a post in this thread presenting Mercy Farms, and asking people to watch how the guy calms the animals down. You encouraged people to watch it even if they do not believe what he is saying. You said you hope that this is the way all animals are slaughtered.

It sounds to me like you were trying to present how humane halal slaughter is. I responded by acknowledging that the guy did a great job in getting the animals to lie down, then presented some videos of non-Muslims humanely slaughtering their animals for food. I am making the argument that some of the animals- in particular the goat in the previous video- suffered less stress and anxiety than the animals at Mercy Farms.

Do you acknowledge that the goat I presented in the video (here it is again below) did not show any fear or even awareness of what was happening during the slaughter, and was less stressed out than the goats in the Mercy Farms clip?

Please watch the video and respond. I watch and read everything you post when we are having a discussion. I don't expect you to do the same, but I think it would be fair.

The woman killing the goat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EYjvArbwnE&feature=player_embedded

The man from Mercy Farms Llc killing goats and sheep.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUOOcIivwTY

And?

Would you not agree that killing a creature with three blows is more cruel than killing it with one?

And there is no reason to touch poisonous snakes and they eat other harmful things (such as mice). That doesn't mean I'm going to allow them in my house where they pose a danger to people who are in the house.

One major difference is that poisonous snakes like to hide themselves away, and they bite only when you accidentally step on them. Salamanders don't bite or poison people. The way to be poisoned by one would be to go out of your way and pick it up.

I also don't see hadiths that limit salamander killing to those that live in houses, or who even mention that they live in homes. Can you please show me these?

Also, do you know how kites are harmful to people?

(3) Narrated Aisha: Allah's Apostle said, "Five kinds of animals are harmful and could be killed in the Haram (Sanctuary). These are: the crow, the kite, the scorpion, the mouse and the rabid dog." (Book #29, Hadith #55)

Search the word kite in the Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)

Scorpions and rabid dogs can bite and seriously hurt people. Mice spread disease. Crows eat grain and sometimes kill weak lambs.

What about kites? These predatory birds feast primarily on reptiles, mice, and snails. Some eat carrion.

How do they pose any threat whatsoever to humans? By eating rodents and reptiles and insects, they actually help keep us safer!


kite, any of numerous birds of prey belonging to one of three subfamilies (Milvinae, Elaninae, Perninae) of the family Accipitridae. Typically, a kite is lightly built, with a small head, partly bare face, short beak, and long narrow wings and tail. Kites occur worldwide in warm regions. Some kites live on insects; others are primarily scavengers but also eat rodents and reptiles; and a few are strictly snaileaters. Kites are buoyant in flight, slowly flapping and gliding with wings angled back. Several species are as graceful as terns. True kites, Milvinae, have rather narrow beaks, the upper mandible being wavy-edged. They are typified by the red kite (Milvus milvus)—of Europe, northern Africa, and the Middle East—and the black, or black-eared, kite (M. migrans)—found over much of the Old World. Both are large (to about 55 cm [22 inches]), reddish birds (the black kite darker), lightly streaked on the head, with long, angled wings and notched tail. The Brahminy kite (Haliastur indus; subfamily Milvinae) ranges from India to northeastern Australia. It is red-brown except for white foreparts. It eats fish and garbage. The buzzard kite (Hamirostra melanosternon; subfamily Milvinae) of Australia is a large black-breasted bird; it lives mainly on rabbits and lizards. It also eats emu eggs, reportedly dropping rocks on them to break the thick shells.

kite (bird) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

Great. That doesn't take away from how amazing Islaam is and why I'm so grateful for this religion and see it as the biggest and most important blessing in my life.

I respect your view that your religion is the biggest and most important blessing in your life. I have a lot of respect for certain aspects of it also.

I do however hope that you leave it and turn to Jesus Christ, by believing what He did for us and said to us.

For someone who commends that my religion teaches some good things, you sure are going out of your way to say that it's not anything special.

I'm just pointing out facts.

It is a fact that Islam teaches its followers to be humane to most animals, and is more explicit on this than Christianity is.

It is a fact that halal slaughter causes less grief and pain to the animals being slaughtered than some other methods do, yet at the same time there are even more humane and less stressful ways of killing them.

It is a fact that Islam does not allow cruelty to animals. It is a fact that I knew this even before I became a Muslim.

I'm not "going out of my way" to either defend or attack your religion in this thread. We are discussing humane ways to treat animals that we are about to eat, so I am contributing to the discussion.

When was the last time btw that you said something positive about some of the teachings of Christianity or Judaism or other religions?

 

[TG123]

I can not find any specific ahadith that specify how the 5 permitted animals are to be killed. since there is no specific provision for them we have to assume we would have to treat them with as much kindness as possible.

Salaam Alaikum. Would you not agree that inflicting three blows is an act of cruelty, when one would be enough?

From what I understand why those animals are permitted 2 are dangerous with no fear of humans (Rabid dogs and Scorpions) Some Scorpions in Arabia are quite deadly and will inhabit houses. Rabid dogs should be apparant.

I completely agree with you on this. I think even "Bare Naked Islam" would agree, although given the intelligence level of those who post material on that site, perhaps we shouldn't take anything for granted.

The other three were major pests with the out door markets and no refrigeration in that era.

I realize that mice and crows are definitely pests. Mice spread disease, and crows eat grain and sometimes attack sheep.

What about kites, though? They eat rodents, reptiles, dead animals, and insects. Would that not be a benefit?

 

[WoodrowX2]

Salaam Alaikum. Would you not agree that inflicting three blows is an act of cruelty, when one would be enough?


I completely agree with you on this. I think even "Bare Naked Islam" would agree, although given the intelligence level of those who post material on that site, perhaps we shouldn't take anything for granted.


I realize that mice and crows are definitely pests. Mice spread disease, and crows eat grain and sometimes attack sheep.

What about kites, though? They eat rodents, reptiles, dead animals, and insects. Would that not be a benefit?

I'm not fully convinced that the Bird translated as Kite in the Qur'an is the same bird we call a kite today. Falcons, hawks and eagles have a very long history of being admired among the Arabs. I can not understand how the bird we now call a kite would have been seen being anything except as a small type of hawk.

I suspect the bird mentioned in the Ahadith is the Cuckoo The Arabian cuckoo is considered a Brood parasite as the females lay their eggs in the nest of smaller birds and the hatchlings pust the smaller hatch lings out of the nest. I can see how these could be a pest as the Arabs did raise doves and the cuckoos would have laid their eggs in the domestic dove nests.

Just my opinion. I have not found any way of identifying the bird that was called a kite in the hadith.

 

[TG123]

I'm not fully convinced that the Bird translated as Kite in the Qur'an is the same bird we call a kite today. Falcons, hawks and eagles have a very long history of being admired among the Arabs. I can not understand how the bird we now call a kite would have been seen being anything except as a small type of hawk.

I suspect the bird mentioned in the Ahadith is the Cuckoo The Arabian cuckoo is considered a Brood parasite as the females lay their eggs in the nest of smaller birds and the hatchlings pust the smaller hatch lings out of the nest. I can see how these could be a pest as the Arabs did raise doves and the cuckoos would have laid their eggs in the domestic dove nests.

Just my opinion. I have not found any way of identifying the bird that was called a kite in the hadith.

Salaam Alaikum. That is an interesting theory. The hadiths translate it to "kite". Are you aware of any translations that say "cuckoo"?

I read an article on IslamQA, written by Ibn Baaz. He identifies "kite" as a "hawk-like bird". Another fatwa, written on Islamweb, calls it "a bird similar to a hawk".

Can harmful insects be killed by burning them?

arfrur
Is it permissible to kill insects that may be found in the house, such as ants, cockroaches and the like, by burning them? If it is not permissible, what should we do?

If these insects are harmful, they may be killed with insecticides, but not with fire. The Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There are five pests that may be killed whether one is in ihraam or not: rats, scorpions, crows, kites [a hawk-like bird], and mad dogs.” (Reported by Muslim, 2071). Another report adds a sixth, snakes. Thus the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that they are harmful pests, and that they are unlike other animals which do not do harm, and so he told us to kill them whether we are in ihraam or not. If other creatures, such as ants or cockroaches or dung-beetles, cause harm, they may also be killed with insecticides, but not with fire. And Allaah knows best.

Fataawa Islaamiyaah, Ibn Baaz, 451.


Can harmful insects be killed by burning them? - islamqa.info

...

4. A Muslim should never torture an animal by any means of torture, such as beating it, making it carry more than it can handle, mutilating it or burning it by a fire. The Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, also prohibited the tying down of animals until they die. Allaah's Messenger, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, once said: “A woman entered the Hell-fire because of a cat that she tied down. She neither fed it nor let it free to eat the insects of the earth until it died.” [Al-Bukhaari]
Allaah's Messenger, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, once passed by an anthill that had been burnt to the ground and he, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said: “It is not becoming that anyone should punish by fire except the Lord of the Fire.” [Abu Daawood]
However, it is permissible to kill the harmful animals, such as voracious dogs, wolves, snakes, scorpions, rats etc. This is based on the Prophet's, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, statement: “Five noxious or harmful animals are to be killed whether or not one is in the state of pilgrimage: the snake, the speckled raven that has whiteness either on its back or stomach, the rat, the voracious dog and the kite (a bird similar to a hawk).” [Muslim]
It is also confirmed from Allaah's Messenger, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, that he cursed the scorpion and killed it. [Al-Bayhaqi]

...


A cuckoo is not similar to a hawk in any way. A kite certainly is.


I think all evidence we have indicates that Muhammad called kites dangerous birds, and that he urged people to kill them.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Fair enough. Have you watched them, though?

Yes.

Do you acknowledge that the goat I presented in the video (here it is again below) did not show any fear or even awareness of what was happening during the slaughter, and was less stressed out than the goats in the Mercy Farms clip?

Just because you do not see the body convulsing in response to being slaughtered (which it does right before it's pulled up - though I believe that by this time the animal was dead and it was just the body's reaction which is the same reaction most, if not all, of the halaal-slaughtered animals have that makes people think its in pain) doesn't mean that the animal was not fearful right when the object hit its head. Nor does this show that the goat was not registering pain. Maybe it was in pain, maybe it wasn't.

In any case, I am one of those Muslims who follows the opinion that I can eat the meat of stunned animals as long as they are slaughtered while still alive but I am still not convinced that this doesn't introduce more unnecessary pain to them.

Please watch the video and respond. I watch and read everything you post when we are having a discussion. I don't expect you to do the same, but I think it would be fair.

I watched and read what you posted, I just didn't respond to those portions because I wasn't interested in getting into a long debate about this which is what I see happening and because I thought my post conveyed what was necessary.

The woman killing the goat

The man from Mercy Farms Llc killing goats and sheep.

What about them? I would still prefer to eat the goat slaughtered by Mercy Farms because a.) they are Muslims who mentioned Allaah's Name over the animal while slaughtering b.) I don't know if the goat was in unnecessary more pain right when and after being hit in the first video.

If the people in the people in the first video did not kill the animal by hitting it over its head nor did they invoke any other name besides God's (and said His Name) and they are Christians/Jews, then I would still eat the meat they offered.

Would you not agree that killing a creature with three blows is more cruel than killing it with one?

The hadeeth isn't encouraging killing it with 3 blows instead of 1. It is telling us that it's less of a reward to eliminate this harm with 3 blows than 1 but it's also saying that the person isn't sinful if it's not killed in 1 blow. Slaughtering an animal (say a goat) should be done as quickly as possible. If the slaughterer botches it up and the goat gets up off the ground deeply wounded, it doesn't mean that the slaughterer becomes a sinner or is going to have all of his reward taken away. Of course, in both of these scenarios we're assuming that the one taking the life of these creatures does not intend to prolong the suffering of the animals since that is contrary to Islaamic principles.

One major difference is that poisonous snakes like to hide themselves away, and they bite only when you accidentally step on them. Salamanders don't bite or poison people. The way to be poisoned by one would be to go out of your way and pick it up.

Even if snakes didn't hide themselves away, I would not want poisonous snakes in my house when there are humans around. The same principle stands for the creature being talked about in the hadeeth.

I also don't see hadiths that limit salamander killing to those that live in houses, or who even mention that they live in homes. Can you please show me these?

I haven't read anywhere that you're supposed to kill them wherever you see them. Generally, the ones in houses are the only ones that pose a real harm to anyone since in the wild they're not really harming us. If I'm in a forest and I spot a mouse from 100 feet away, I'm not going to go chasing after it to kill it.

Anyway, why are you deciding for the Arabs what should be considered pests in their area?

What about kites? These predatory birds feast primarily on reptiles, mice, and snails. Some eat carrion.

How do they pose any threat whatsoever to humans? By eating rodents and reptiles and insects, they actually help keep us safer!

Allaah knows best in which way they are considered harmful.

I do however hope that you leave it and turn to Jesus Christ, by believing what He did for us and said to us.

I already believe in him and all of the other Prophets. They were sent as a mercy from God to their respective nations and I love them, including Jesus (peace be upon him), more than words can describe. This is why I find the worship of him upsetting just as I would be upset if someone decided to worship Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him and all of the other Prophets) because it goes against the core message that each of the Prophets was sent with.

It is a fact that Islam does not allow cruelty to animals. It is a fact that I knew this even before I became a Muslim.

It would make me so happy if this statement were true (the "even before I became a Muslim" part). God-willing, one day.

I'm not "going out of my way" to either defend or attack your religion in this thread. We are discussing humane ways to treat animals that we are about to eat, so I am contributing to the discussion.

Ok.

When was the last time btw that you said something positive about some of the teachings of Christianity or Judaism or other religions?

Many of my posts here regarding religion are mainly in 'defense' of Islaam (though Islaam stands alone perfectly and doesn't need anyone's help, especially this layperson's), correcting others' misconceptions about it, clarifying what's part of Islaam and what isn't, and just responding to various attacks against it as I see fit.

I don't talk about Judaism or Christianity or any other religions much, positive or negative. Generally the only time I bring up what I believe are negatives is when my religion is being attacked or misrepresented and even then it's usually to make a point.

 

[wn123455]

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