Hagia Sophia turned back into a mosque

[mala]

We'll be sure not to convert CF to a mosque then.

This place used to be called "Religious Forums" before it became "Christian Forums"
So what was your point again?

 

[Hans Blaster]

This place used to be called "Religious Forums" before it became "Christian Forums"
So what was your point again?

OK. It's not a complex thread, but there is humor involved...

1. This is a thread about the conversion of a museum that was built as a church and had previously been converted into a mosque, back into a mosque.

2. Poster "not David" wrote "You know we are in a Christian website and we consider Christianity to be the truth?", which puts a lot of emphasis on the religious alignment of this site, its management and ownership. So I made a joke about the conversion of CF. Perhaps saying "into 'Islamic Forums' " would have been a more apt parallel. And perhaps my joke wasn't that good.

3. I had no idea the site had once been "Religious Forums" which kind of make my joke more apt, especially if a group of Muslim investors bought it and changed it to "Islamic Forums."

As non-Christians we both get to watch and limit ourselves here.

Cheers.

 

[Barney2.0]

hmmm bigot much?

Try getting colonized by Turkey for hundreds of years and watch them drive you backward, then come and talk about being a bigot.

 

[mala]

Try getting colonized by Turkey for hundreds of years and watch them drive you backward, then come and talk about being a bigot.

it's true, saudi arabia hasn't really gone anywhere but backwards for a longtime.

 

[Barney2.0]

it's true, saudi arabia hasn't really gone anywhere but backwards for a longtime.

Yes your quite right Saudi is backward, but I’m of Lebanese/Syrian heritage, Saudi was never colonized by Turkey unless you count Hejaz. The Turks simply pillaged Syria and Lebanon for hundreds of years, the only mark they left was the current chaos in the Arab world today especially in Syria and Lebanon, who do you think brought in the Kurds from Iran and settled them in Syria and Iraq, who killed millions of Assyrians and Armenians in the Levant? If not for French rule we’d probably be even worse than Saudi.

 

[mala]

Yes your quite right Saudi is backward, but I’m of Lebanese/Syrian heritage, Saudi was never colonized by Turkey unless you count Hejaz. The Turks simply pillaged Syria and Lebanon for hundreds of years, the only mark they left was the current chaos in the Arab world today especially in Syria and Lebanon, who do you think brought in the Kurds from Iran and settled them in Syria and Iraq, who killed millions of Assyrians and Armenians in the Levant? If not for French rule we’d probably be even worse than Saudi.

where is that roll eyes emoji. aha here it is!

 

[Not David]

So conversions of building functions away from other religions and toward Christianity are ok, while the opposite is not. Right?

Sort of, not all ancient pagan buildings were destroyed by Christians so I guess there are exceptions

 

[Barney2.0]

where is that roll eyes emoji. aha here it is!

Not sure how you get to eye roll this:

 

[mala]

Not sure how you get to eye roll this:

View attachment 280695

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cool story bro

 

[ViaCrucis]

cool story bro

I don't get it, are you denying that these genocides happened? Or dismissing them for another reason?

I'm not even being critical here, just legitimately curious about this response to the mention of known genocides in recent history.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[mala]

I don't get it, are you denying that these genocides happened? Or dismissing them for another reason?

I'm not even being critical here, just legitimately curious about this response to the mention of known genocides in recent history.

-CryptoLutheran

Neither. The poster is angrily posting things that have nothing to do with the thread and as a defense of their own bigotry. My reply is essentially the equivalent of a shrug.

 

[Barney2.0]

cool story bro

Not a story, those are real events where real people were genocided.

 

[Barney2.0]

Neither. The poster is angrily posting things that have nothing to do with the thread and as a defense of their own bigotry. My reply is essentially the equivalent of a shrug.

Actually it was in response to you dismissing Turkish colonialism under which numerous genocides happened and suppression of native peoples occurred.

 

[All Englands Skies]

hmmm bigot much?

hang on, you're one of the posters on here who rails against white supremacy, colonial history, what Christians have done etc, you're quite happy implying the western world was built upon blood and theft and there is some truth to that.

However whenever its the same criteria to judge Islamic history and society, than its "bigotry" and your quick to jump to defence of the Islamic side of the argument, even when the shoes on the other foot.

For all you're left wing credentials you promote, you seem to go into Islamist style knee jerk reactions and claims of bigotry of anybody who shows any anger towards your faith and history.

Which is than compounded due to the fact I read your other posts where its okay for you to get angry at White people or Christians and use enraged language against them and their perceived wrongs.

I myself have tried to stop getting angry at Muslims, even if I disagree with Islam, which is why I don't post that much about Islam anymore, but I cant stay quiet when somebody shouts "bigot" and yet doesn't see the same traits in their self. I mean seriously, if somebody had a disagreement over something and somebody showed mass graves in Bosnia and then a Christian replied "Cool story, Bro" (even if they didn't start the argument) you'd be saying they were a bigot and hater, but you do it, its fine.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Actually it was in response to you dismissing Turkish colonialism under which numerous genocides happened and suppression of native peoples occurred.

I cannot get my head around the fact its okay to be angry at colonial history, western conquest, Christian conquest and even imply the modern day descendants of these oppressors are responsible and their history is written in blood, yet as soon as you say the same about the Ottoman/Turkish empire and other Islamic empires its "bigotry"

I mean, where are the rules?

That being said, nothing comes from using aggressive language, no need to offend people even if you disagree with them, bro.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Can't say I'm surprised. I'm not even all that disappointed. Perhaps it is better for it to be a religious monument of some kind rather than a dull icon of secularism in the form of a museum. I just wished it could be a Church again, but unfortunately given Turkish-Islamic dominance of Constantinople that cannot be.

Reminds me of the Megali Idea and the lost opportunity that existed for it to be a Church again. If only the Greeks had won the Greco-Turkish War.

 

[mala]

hang on, you're one of the posters on here who rails against white supremacy, colonial history, what Christians have done etc, you're quite happy implying the western world was built upon blood and theft and there is some truth to that.

However whenever its the same criteria to judge Islamic history and society, than its "bigotry" and your quick to jump to defence of the Islamic side of the argument, even when the shoes on the other foot.

For all you're left wing credentials you promote, you seem to go into Islamist style knee jerk reactions and claims of bigotry of anybody who shows any anger towards your faith and history.

Which is than compounded due to the fact I read your other posts where its okay for you to get angry at White people or Christians and use enraged language against them and their perceived wrongs.

I myself have tried to stop getting angry at Muslims, even if I disagree with Islam, which is why I don't post that much about Islam anymore, but I cant stay quiet when somebody shouts "bigot" and yet doesn't see the same traits in their self. I mean seriously, if somebody had a disagreement over something and somebody showed mass graves in Bosnia and then a Christian replied "Cool story, Bro" (even if they didn't start the argument) you'd be saying they were a bigot and hater, but you do it, its fine.

Well you do vote for ukip so I don't expect much.

But here is what I was refering to as the posters bigotry.

They wrote,

This is just going to damage the interests of Turkey even harder, the Turks have no legacy, their history is one of barbarism and colonialism, their only major source of pride is a Greek Orthodox Byzantine cathedral that they pillaged and stole. At least Ataturk was actually trying to push them forward.

Notice the bold part. I was not referring to anything else they wrote. And I was not talking about Islamic anything. It's very simple really. He's like those racists that refer to specific blacks as "one of the good ones" whilst casually grouping and belittling all the others.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Well you do vote for ukip so I don't expect much.

But here is what I was refering to as the posters bigotry.

They wrote,

Notice the bold part. I was not referring to anything else they wrote. And I was not talking about Islamic anything. It's very simple really. He's like those racists that refer to specific blacks as "one of the good ones" whilst casually grouping and belittling all the others.

No worse than the things you say about the USA and its history though for example, that it was built upon blood, conquest and racism, isn't it?

You cant define one nation by its atrocities, then get indignant at somebody else defining another by their atrocities. You don't bat an eyelid when people say the same type of stuff about western or Christian nations, in fact you're usually on their side.

I am not saying his comments are right either, I know Turkish people who are very cultured and open minded and they are part of Turkish culture, so its wrong to palm them all off as barbarians, however surely you can see the hypocrisy if somebody bemoans tactics used by somebody, that they themselves use against those they view as oppressive, historic or otherwise.

Come on, man, there is no need for the attitude. We're not in our 20's anymore.

 

[Windir]

I support this move by Erdogan. Kemal Ataturk converted the Agia Sophia into a museum, which means that the building was de-sacralized and the religious tradition abrupted. Consequently, the building has been poorly maintained and in steady decline under all of Turkey's secular history. This is to be expected, since no one will feel personal responsibility for a mere 'museum' for tourists. Thus, this move by Erdogan represents a symbolic victory of religion over secularism. The building will once again behold spiritual activity, and the entrance fee will be abolished, which means the space is re-sacralized. A victory for both Islam and Christendom over secular modernity. Agia Sophia is NOT a museum!

 

[Not David]

I support this move by Erdogan. Kemal Ataturk converted the Agia Sophia into a museum, which means that the building was de-sacralized and the religious tradition abrupted. Consequently, the building has been poorly maintained and in steady decline under all of Turkey's secular history. This is to be expected, since no one will feel personal responsibility for a mere 'museum' for tourists. Thus, this move by Erdogan represents a symbolic victory of religion over secularism. The building will once again behold spiritual activity, and the entrance fee will be abolished, which means the space is re-sacralized. A victory for both Islam and Christendom over secular modernity. Agia Sophia is NOT a museum!

Oh yes, becoming a center for a fake religion really looks like a victory for Christianity.