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Hagia Sophia turned back into a mosque

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Sif, Jul 10, 2020.

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  1. Sif

    Sif .

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    The Hagia Sophia (formerly a museum) is now a mosque again

    I was surprised to read this. I was at the Hagia Sophia years ago when it was a museum. On the second level I saw Viking runes cared on a stone, likey by a member of the Varangian Guard .
    Built in 537 by Justinian I of the (Eastern) Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire) and made into a mosque in 1453 when the city fell to Mehmed the Conqueror then made into a museum in 1935 under Ataturk.

    I am not sure what those of the Greek Orthodox faith think of this.

    I hope the Icons/images are not destroyed and are persevered.
     
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  2. Phronema

    Phronema Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This has been on-going for awhile that Erdogan has talked about doing this.

    I think the general consensus by Orthodox Christians are that it's not preferrable, but there's nothing anyone can do. I do happen to be Greek Orthodox, and I can say that pious Greeks in general speak highly of the Hagia Sophia, and Constantinople/Istanbul as they still consider it to be rightfully Greek. I'm quite sure the Turks would disagree. Last time they covered the icons with a cement type mixture, and no word on what they'll do this time. I'll add that I don't think they'll outright destroy them because they do hold Christ, and the Theotokos in high regard in Islam.

    For what it's worth I was told by a Shia Muslim that the Turks (who are Sunnis) are violating Islamic law by turning a Christian church into a mosque without buying it, or asking permission to do so. Whether that's true I'm not sure, and frankly I don't really care to find out one way or another as it doesn't seem to make any difference.
     
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  3. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Keeping it a museum was arguably the best way to have maintained peace in the matter, so this seems like a bad move in that regard.

    Now, as a Christian, I personally believe that this church should return to being a church. But at least as a museum it meant that anyone could appreciate it at least for its historical value.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  4. tampasteve

    tampasteve ✞Steadfast Lutheran, Messianic leaning ✡ Staff Member Administrator CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team Supporter

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    I wasn't, President Erdogan has been trying to get this moving for years.
    I have been as well, back in 2003 or so. It is an incredible place, the mosaics and everything are irreplaceable. One can be sure they will be destroyed or at least covered over.

    It is egregious, but not surprising. Turkey has been trending less secular for years.
    At minimum they wll be covered again, at worst they will be destroyed. I would bet on destruction based on the political and religious climate in Turkey at this time.
     
  5. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    Should places of worship always remain dedicated to their founders' faith?

    Are there guidelines for when its ok to change them?
     
  6. Phronema

    Phronema Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Oh, and here's a beautiful picture of it without the minarets :oldthumbsup: hagia sophia.jpg
     
  7. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is just going to damage the interests of Turkey even harder, the Turks have no legacy, their history is one of barbarism and colonialism, their only major source of pride is a Greek Orthodox Byzantine cathedral that they pillaged and stole. At least Ataturk was actually trying to push them forward.

    Turkey is in a debt of billions of dollars, has no allies anywhere as their barbarian of a president managed to screw up all diplomatic ties they had both in Europe and the Arab world, and they have been hit really hard by the COVID-19 crisis and its just going to get worse for them from there. It seems they didn’t learn the last time when God tore down their Empire to shreds and made their people suffer for their crimes.

    O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself…

    Psalms 94:1

    Therefore, this is what the LORD says: "Behold, I will plead your case and take vengeance on your behalf; I will dry up her sea and make her springs run dry.

    Jeremiah 51:36

    In all honesty I am mad at this move, but I’m also happy that Turkey is digging its own grave into Hades.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  8. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I hope I live to see Christ come back to knock the minarets down and throw the symbol of the moon down and place a cross on this most beautiful place of worship.
     
  9. Phronema

    Phronema Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I apologize for spamming this thread, and this post is even slightly off topic.

    That said if anyone is interested you can hear Orthodox chant as if it were chanted from inside the Hagia Sophia from a group called Cappella Romana. They conducted an experimental project where they popped a balloon inside the Hagia Sophia recorded the pop, and later took that information, and through technology created the sound effect that chanting inside the Hagia Sophia would provide. The acoustics are beautiful, and that can be found on an album called "Lost Voices of Hagia Sophia".

    It's also on Spotify for those who have that.
     
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  10. Sif

    Sif .

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    I would hope the Hagia Sophia to remain a museum as the incredible historical value of the place is so amazing. I can certainly understand why many Christians would want to see it returned to a place of Christian worship
     
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  11. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    I think, generally speaking, probably. If there are religious communities which hold certain places to be of importance, allowing those religious communities to use their historical places of worship is a good thing I'd think.

    If a mosque were converted to a church, then later became a government-owned museum; either keep it purely secular or return it to the Muslim community.

    Things get increasingly more complicated in many cases, the most obvious example being the Temple Mount/Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem.

    An example in Christianity that I can think of off the top of my head is the Pantheon in Rome, which was converted to a church in the 7th century. Granted, I don't think there were many Roman Pagans left at the time (I could, of course, be mistaken, as one of the last vestiges of the old Greco-Roman religion were the Hellenes of Laconia in the 800's). Given Pagan revival movements there could be a case to be made that should it be desired that the Pantheon be restored to Pagan possession, but I that feels far more hypothetical than the case of Hagia Sophia.

    Again, keeping it as a museum was, I think the best solution. But restoring it religious use, and restoring it back to a mosque, feels a bit like an intentional slap in the face by the Turkish government against the Orthodox minority.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  12. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster Well-Known Member

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    I think the only guideline is the possession of power.

    I was frankly disturbed by the desecration of the Pantheon when I saw it.
     
  13. Not David

    Not David Der Romisch Katechumene

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    You know we are in a Christian website and we consider Christianity to be the truth?
     
  14. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster Well-Known Member

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    We'll be sure not to convert CF to a mosque then.
     
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  15. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    So conversions of building functions away from other religions and toward Christianity are ok, while the opposite is not. Right?
     
  16. Aryeh Jay

    Aryeh Jay Veteran Supporter

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    Or God Forbid, a museum!
     
  17. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster Well-Known Member

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    It's design kind of is a museum, but that's something to like about it. I really hate browsing websites on my computer that act like some phone app.
     
  18. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

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    It's a shame as it was a great symbol of the secularism that Ataturk promoted.
     
  19. Aryeh Jay

    Aryeh Jay Veteran Supporter

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    It just goes to show that successful strongmen get what they want.
     
  20. mala

    mala fluffy lion

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    hmmm bigot much?
     
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