Hades / The Grave

ViaCrucis

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Many years ago-- when I was a young single guy in his early twenties, living alone in a cheap rental --as I was listening to a radio preacher talk about hell, something in my mind took over; and I had the strangest sensation of falling off the earth into an abyss and nobody cared, nor did anybody miss me, nor did my disappearance cause any alarm nor make any difference.

The freeways remained busy with frustrated drivers and honking horns, people still got up to go to work, shoppers crowded the supermarkets and department stores, kids caught their buses to school, birds kept right on chirping, grass kept on growing, ocean waves went on rolling onto the beach, trains kept running, airlines kept flying, clouds moved across the sky; and all that.

My absence changed nothing nor disturbed anyone nor anything. The world was utterly indifferent; it kept right on turning, clocks went on ticking; and nature and man went right on with their business as usual without the slightest hiccup. At that moment I realized just how alone and how obscure people must feel when they exhale their final breath and cross over to the other side.

Back in March of 2015, Andrew Getty, an heir to J. Paul Getty's oil fortune, died at the age of 47. In life, Andrew had many friends. You know how many accompanied him on his journey across the river Styx? Nary a one.

You gotta walk that lonesome valley,
You gotta walk it by yourself,
Nobody here can walk it for you,
You gotta walk it by yourself.

(Woody Guthrie)
_

With all due respect Mr. Guthrie,

"The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters.
He restores my soul.
He leads me in the paths of justice
for His name's sake.

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil,
for You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff,
they comfort me.

You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
you anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life,
and I shall dwell in the house of the LORD
forever.
" - Psalm 23

"O LORD, You have searched me and known me!
You know when I sit down and when I rise up;
You discern my thoughts from afar.
You search out my path and my lying down
and are acquainted with all my ways.
Even before a word is on my tongue,
behold, O LORD, You know it altogether.
You hem me in, behind and before,
and lay Your hand upon me.
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
it is high; and I cannot attain it.

Where shall I go from Your Spirit?
Or where shall I flee from Your presence?
If I ascend to the heavens, You are there!
If I make my bed in She'ol, You are there!
If I take the wings of the morning
and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
even there Your hand shall lead me,
and Your right hand shall hold me.
If I say, 'Surely the darkness shall cover me,
and the light about me be night,'
even the darkness is not dark to you;
the night is bright as the day,
for darkness is as light with you.
" - Psalm 139:1-12


-CryptoLutheran
 
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WebersHome

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People have been filtering into perdition not only since the time of Christ, but since before the Step Pyramid of Djoser, and even before the Flood. I won't speculate how many years that might be, but h.sapiens is thought by some to have achieved full behavioral modernity something like 50,000 years ago. (There's new findings suggesting that human existence goes as far back as 150-300,000 years) Anyway; whether that extends clear on back to Adam and Eve I have no clue; but just think: if it does, then Cain and others from his era have been down in the netherworld all this time.

It's difficult for the human mind to appreciate 50,000 years let alone 300,000. I've been on the Earth for just 75, and I've noticed that my childhood is so far in the past to me now as to seem more like a fantasy than a memory. But you know; when you're talking about eternity, 50,000 years isn't even a drop in the bucket. If it were a drop in the bucket, it would be a bucket with no bottom; which is roughly akin to the futility of a gnat attempting to drink up the Atlantic ocean.

But just think: time stands still in hell: it's for the now; it's an existence. People who arrived there yesterday didn't begin doing time in jail like Martha Stewart expecting to get out some day; nor is perdition a temporary tour of duty like shipping out to Afghanistan. No, people in hell are in it as perpetual residents; they're in a rut.

They go year, after year, after year, after year, with no relief from the discomfort: no vacations, no recreation, no reading materials, and no hobbies-- there's absolutely nothing to do but reminisce. The mental atrophy, and the boredom that must result from that kind of mindless existence is beyond estimation.

In life, everybody enjoys God's blessings; even the really bad people. We're all breathing fresh air, basking in sunshine, drinking cool water, savoring tasty foods, listening to birds chirp, star gazing at night, throwing snow balls at each other in winter, river rafting, fishing, snow skiing, tending gardens, pruning shrubs, greeting friends during the holidays, spending days with grandkids; and all that sort of thing. In the Bible's hell, there are no blessings of any kind at all: only perpetual sadness, vexation, despair, and want.

In hell's unruly society; it's reasonable to expect quarrels, bickering, hard feelings, vendettas, rivalry, selfishness, insensitivity, irritation, aggravation, and ugly words exchanged between people. Is there really any good reason to be courteous and/or respect your fellow man's human rights in the Bible's hell; or to be kind, forgiving, affable, genial, courteous, cordial, charitable, altruistic, tolerant, generous, and patient? I was once discussing the netherworld with a co-worker and he remarked: "Hell won't be so bad; I'll have plenty of friends down there". Yes, he probably will have lots of friends in hell; but I really don't think he should count on them being friendly.

And the din: think of the volume of noise down there with all the wailing and sobbing, and the moaning, shrieking, yelping, howling, gnashing teeth, and the constant complaining. I can only imagine how annoying it must be in hell with its thousands and millions of people making all that kind of racket.

But just imagine bringing with you a craving for tobacco with none available. Or longing for a cocktail with no liquor in sight. A desire for music, with no way to produce it. A skill for writing, with no pen and paper. Yearning for a walk out in nature, with no world to do it in.

People in hell will never again smell a sea breeze, sit in the shade of a tree, take deep breaths of mountain-fresh air, play at sports, hear a bird chirp, see a sunset, watch a lunar eclipse, jog in the park, strum a guitar, enjoy a Christmas dinner with loved ones; nor make little pigs of themselves gobbling barbecued spare ribs and corn on the 4th of July.

Sports and recreation are gone: no more World Series, no more Super Bowl, no more Olympics, no more Las Vegas, no more Indian casinos, no more lottery, no more Lego World, no more Sea World, no more NASCAR, no more golf, no more surfing, et al.

No baths, no showers, no sleep, no TV, no radio, no iPods, no computers, no Twitter, no texting, no FaceBook, no Instagram, no YouTube, no MySpace, no internet, no clean sheets, no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. No snacks, no gum, no candy, no flowers, no parks, no rivers, no snow, no seasons, no picnics, no malls, no fast food, no trades, no careers, no trendy fashions, no jewelry, no cosmetics, no concerts, no operas, and no hobbies; absolutely nothing of this world that brings people the pleasures and the satisfactions of just being alive.
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Abraham replied: "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things" (Luke 16:25)

I should think that one of the negative aspects of hell is memory. How people down there retain their memories sans the brain cells they left behind with their corpse, I don't know; but they do, just as the rich man in that story is able to experience thirst sans a flesh and blood tongue.

The older one gets, the more memories they accumulate, and many of those memories haunt us with terrible regret. However, people in hell not only have to cope with their bad memories, but also the good ones too, and I should think it's remembering the good things they enjoyed in life that makes their situation only worse in the heat.

If everybody was born and raised in hell; and never once ventured out; that would be the only life they've ever known, so they wouldn't have a clue what it's like to really live. For them the old maxim "Ignorance is bliss" would certainly hold true.
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WebersHome

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Luke 16:27-30 . . I beg you, Father, that you send Lazarus to my father's house-- for I have five brothers --that he may warn them, lest they also come to this place of torment.

You know what can be even worse than going to hell? Your own children following you there: and they trusted you.

Here's a sort of cute story I heard once. I don't know if it's true but I guess it's plausible.

A farmer went out to the barn in the dead of night after a snowfall to sneak a pull from his liquor bottle. Just as he got to the barn door he heard something behind him. Turning, the farmer recognized his little boy coming towards him. In amazement he asked the little guy how he ever managed to find his way out to the barn in the dark. His son replied: It was easy; I walked in your footsteps.

One can only imagine the anguish that parents in the netherworld must feel knowing that they inadvertently raised their children in an ideology that led them down the road to hell and all the while sincerely believing themselves doing the right thing. For some families, the only thing they have to look forward to in the afterlife is a sad reunion in fire and despair.
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Daniel Marsh

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The comments and questions below are relative to Luke 16:19-31.

How is it that the rich man and Abraham were able to see from their own grave into each other's grave? Do dead people have X-ray vision? Do they have any vision at all let alone X-ray?

Do dead people actually have the ability to communicate with other dead people? You'd think that dead people would be deaf and mute seeing as how they're deceased and no longer sentient.

What is the nature of the barrier that existed between Abraham's grave and the rich man's grave? The story suggests dead people could, and would, visit one another's graves were it not for the barrier separating them.

From whence did the rich man assume that Lazarus could fetch water? Was Lazarus' grave adjacent to an aquifer or some such?

The story suggests that Abraham and Lazarus shared the same grave, i.e. Lazarus' corpse was laid to rest with Abraham's corpse.

The story tells that Lazarus' pall bearers were angels. Is that common, or was Lazarus' funeral a special event?
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James 2:26 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
26 A person’s body that does not have a spirit is dead. It is the same with faith—faith that does nothing is dead!

Concerning the king of Babylon,
Isaiah 14:9-11 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
9 The place of death is excited
that you are coming.
Sheol is waking the spirits
of all the leaders of the earth for you.
Sheol is making the kings stand up
from their thrones to meet you.

10 They will make fun of you, saying,
“Now you are as dead as we are.
Now you are just like us.”
11 Your pride has been sent down to Sheol.
The music from your harps announces the coming of your proud spirit.
Maggots will be the bed you lie on,
and other worms will cover your body like a blanket.

When we die our bodies and spirits are separated. Spirits go into the realm of the dead and bodies are buried. As you can see from the above text, our spirits can talk to each other.
 
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WebersHome

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Something I've been curious about for some time now is why the rich man in Luke's narrative arrived in a place of flame and torment while the poor man was taken to a place of comfort.

Well; one thing I strongly suspect is that at the time of the incident recorded in Luke 16:19-31, Christ was not yet born in the land of Israel; so then, there was not yet a gospel to believe in the New Testament.

Abraham mentions the Old Testament's law and its prophets; which apparently the rich man had not studied, nor taken seriously; consequently he was impious and a complete failure at complying with the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Well, if so; then that was a fatal error.

Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.

The grammatical tense of that curse is present tense rather than future, indicating that the curse is instant, i.e. no delay and no waiting period; ergo: scofflaws are walking dead men; and if they cross over into the next life as dead men, then their fate will be just as solidly sealed as the rich man's fate.
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WebersHome

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Luke 16:27-31 . . I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.

. . . Abraham replied: They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.

. . . No, father Abraham-- he said --but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.

. . . He said to him: If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.

Abraham was a prophet (Gen 20:7) which means he was an inspired man. As such, he would be privy to information that would normally be unavailable to the average rank and file pew warmer. However prophets aren't meant to keep what they hear from God to themselves; they're messengers, e.g. Abraham was a teacher/mentor. (Gen 18:19)

So then, I think it's fairly safe to assume the information that Abraham passed on to the rich man came to Abraham via inspiration; which, if so, means that our reaction to his remarks should be very different than the rich man's. He brushed aside what Abraham told him; but we, I should hope, are wiser than that impious dunce because we know that a prophet's teachings are the voice of God.

I think it's pretty safe to assert that if people won't listen to Abraham, then neither will they listen to Jesus.
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WebersHome

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Former US President John F. Kennedy was assassinated Friday, Nov 22, 1963 @ 12:30 p.m. by one Lee Harvey Oswald.

Though Oswald succeeded in terminating the life of Mr. Kennedy's body, according to Matt 10:28 and Luke 12:4-5 he did not succeed in terminating the life of Mr. Kennedy's soul. No, that part of the former president's existence survived.

Matt 10:28 is very good evidence that normal human existence consists of at least two components: soul and body; which is corroborated by 1Thess 5:23.

The million dollar question is: Where was Mr. Kennedy's soul taken when his body passed away?

Well, one of the biblical answers to that question is located in Luke 16:19-31, viz: Mr. Kennedy's soul was taken to either the rich man's location, or it was taken to Abraham's.
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WebersHome

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Eccl 9:5 . .The dead do not know anything.

Ecc 9:10 . .Whatever your hand finds to do, verily, do it with all your might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in sheol where you are going.

Ecclesiastes is the Bible's fun book because it's chock full of normal thinking instead of religious dogma. Ecclesiastes requires very little interpretation as anybody who's been around the block a time or two can easily relate to its thoughts.

Bible students are often baffled as to why Solomon's remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes sometimes contradict Christ's teachings in the New Testament. Well; the answer to that is actually pretty simple.

Solomon wasn't inspired to record his observations of life from the perspective of an enlightened man who's privy to knowledge beyond the scope of empirical evidence and human experience; rather, from the perspective of a man under the sun; viz: a down to earth thinking man whose perception of reality is moderated by what he can see for himself going on around him in the physical universe; which of course results in an evaluation of life on earth as seen from the earth rather than an evaluation of life on earth as seen from heaven.

In other words: Ecclesiastes isn't the word of God, it's the word of a philosopher; his own personal world view, and it's so identified right at the gun. (Ecc 1:1)

Solomon was the brightest intellectual of his day. However; it is not wise to interpret Christ's teachings by citing Solomon's because according to Matt 12:42, Luke 11:31, John 1:1 and Col 2:3; Jesus' wisdom is superior to Solomon's, and has more authority.

In addition: Jesus Christ spoke the words of God (John 3:34, John 8:26, John 8:28, John 12:49, John 14:24) whereas there is not the slightest textual evidence in the book of Ecclesiastes that Solomon spoke the words of God when he wrote it. Caveat Lector.
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WebersHome

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Luke 16:27-31 . . I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.

My guess is that the rich man was concerned because he knew all too well that his brothers didn't believe in a hell. I suspect that they felt, as many do, that when their brother breathed his last, he ceased to exist. In other words; the rich man hoped that his brothers would be interested to find out that he was still conscious somewhere beyond the grave.

Luke 16:29 . . But Abraham said; "They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them"

According to Abraham, the Old Testament reveals the existence of a hell; not only the Prophets, but also Moses; viz: the Pentateuch.

I've thus far had no luck locating a hell in the Pentateuch, but the Prophets have at least one mention that really stands out.

Isa 66:23-24 . . From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me; says The Lord.

. . . And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.

But of one thing about his brothers that the rich man was convinced: they were not Bible believers. So he protested:

Luke 16:30 . . No, father Abraham

In other words: the rich man was all too aware that the Old Testament's revelations about hell would've just bounced off his brothers like a Red Ryder BB gun off the armor plating of a Russian tank. The really creative ones might've even written off the OT's teachings as parables that have no basis in reality.

Luke 16:30-31 . . He said; "If someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent. Abraham said to him; "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."

That's still true. Things like after-death experiences, and near-death experiences, typically have very little influence on secular thinking.
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WebersHome

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Luke 16:29 . . But Abraham said; "They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them"

The first five books of the Bible, a.k.a. the Pentateuch, are attributed to Moses. I can't find anything in them where Moses clearly wrote about hell; but I have found several places in the Pentateuch where Moses wrote of a location called sheol (sheh-ole').

Sheol first appears in Gen 37:35, and thereafter six more places in Moses' writings. Apparently the rich man and his five brothers either overlooked sheol, never bothered to research it, or just simply discarded it as fantasy.

Sheol is commonly interpreted as the grave. Well; the specific Hebrew word for grave in the Pentateuch is qeber (keh'-ber) a.k.a. qibrah (kib-raw'); which first appears in Gen 23:4 and thereafter eleven more places in Moses' writings.

The Greek equivalent of sheol is haides (hah'-dace) which first appears in Matt 11:23 and thereafter ten more places in the New Testament.

Haides is commonly interpreted as the grave. Well; the specific Greek word for grave is mnemeion (mnay-mi'-on) which first appears at Matt 8:28, and thereafter forty-one more places in the New Testament.

The rich man was no doubt familiar with qeber/mnemeion from attending a number of funerals; fully expecting the day when he himself would be laid to rest. But the rich man didn't anticipate sheol/haides; that he did not expect. Consequently the afterlife caught him completely by surprise like an unsuspecting bear stepping on the trigger of a powerful spring-loaded steel trap.

The man's five brothers were on the same track, coming after him totally unprepared for the tsunami of shock, terror, and awe set to greet their arrival. For some families, the only thing they have to look forward to in the afterlife isn't Abraham's bosom, rather, a sad reunion in fire and despair.
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Luke 16:29 . . But Abraham said; "They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them"

A very useful Prophet in any discussion of the afterlife is Jonah because he was actually there and saw it for himself.

Jonah 2:1-2 . . Jonah prayed to Jehovah his God from the stomach of the fish, and he said: "I called out of my distress to The Lord, and He answered me. I cried for help from the depth of sheol.

Jonah 2:6 . . I descended to the roots of the mountains. The earth with its bars was around me forever

The roots of the mountains aren't located in the tummy of a fish; they're way down deep in the ground.

Jonah's afterlife adventure not only took him deep underground to sheol, but it also included a resurrection.

Jonah 2:6 . . But Thou hast brought up my life from the pit, O Jehovah my God.

The Hebrew word for "pit" in that verse is the very same word for pit in Ps 16:8-10; which Acts 2:25-31 verifies is speaking of putrefaction.

Matt 12:39-40 . . As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the Earth.

There's a popular theory going around that when people pass away, they cease to exist. Well; were that true, then Christ would've ceased to exist when he died on the cross, and it would've been necessary to first re-create him before his corpse could be restored to life. It would've also been necessary to first re-create Jonah too before his corpse could be restored to life. The "cease to exist" theory holds up pretty well in science but it falls flat in the Bible.

Now when you think about it; Jesus' corpse was never in the heart of the Earth. It wasn't even in the Earth's soil. His remains were laid to rest on the surface of the Earth in a rock-hewn tomb.

The only way that Jesus could possibly be in a tomb on the surface of the Earth while at the same time in the heart of the Earth; was for the man and his body to part company and go their separate ways.

Same for Jonah. The only way that he could be in a fish's tummy while at the same time at the roots of the mountains was for the man and his body to part company and go their separate ways.

Jesus and Jonah are the two best biblical proofs I know of that there is an afterlife; and that part of it is located somewhere deep underground. For a great many people who've gone on before us, its discovery has been a terrible disappointment.
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People are able to terminate each other's bodies, but according to Jesus' statements they are unable to terminate each other's souls.

Matt 10:28 . . Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:

Luke 12:4 . . Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

Well: if ordinary people's souls survive the termination of their body, then I think it's 100% safe to assume that Jesus Christ's soul survived crucifixion.

Ps 16:9-10 . . My flesh also will rest in hope. For You will not leave my soul in sheol, nor will You allow Your holy one to see corruption.

Peter verified that the prophet David was speaking of Jesus when he wrote that passage in the Psalms. (Acts 2:25-27)

1• Jesus Christ attested that the soul survives the death of the body.

2• David's and Peter's statements indicate that Jesus' soul was taken to sheol/hades when he passed away on the cross.

3• David's and Peter's statements indicate that sheol and hades are one and the same place.

4• Christ and the prophet Jonah corroborate each other's statements that sheol/hades is located somewhere deep underground.

5• Jonah prayed while he was in sheol/hades; thus verifying that the people residing there are not in hibernation; instead are fully conscious and able to conduct sensible, intelligent conversations.
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Emmylouwho

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People have been filtering into perdition not only since the time of Christ, but since before the Step Pyramid of Djoser, and even before the Flood. I won't speculate how many years that might be, but h.sapiens is thought by some to have achieved full behavioral modernity something like 50,000 years ago. (There's new findings suggesting that human existence goes as far back as 150-300,000 years) Anyway; whether that extends clear on back to Adam and Eve I have no clue; but just think: if it does, then Cain and others from his era have been down in the netherworld all this time.

It's difficult for the human mind to appreciate 50,000 years let alone 300,000. I've been on the Earth for just 75, and I've noticed that my childhood is so far in the past to me now as to seem more like a fantasy than a memory. But you know; when you're talking about eternity, 50,000 years isn't even a drop in the bucket. If it were a drop in the bucket, it would be a bucket with no bottom; which is roughly akin to the futility of a gnat attempting to drink up the Atlantic ocean.

But just think: time stands still in hell: it's for the now; it's an existence. People who arrived there yesterday didn't begin doing time in jail like Martha Stewart expecting to get out some day; nor is perdition a temporary tour of duty like shipping out to Afghanistan. No, people in hell are in it as perpetual residents; they're in a rut.

They go year, after year, after year, after year, with no relief from the discomfort: no vacations, no recreation, no reading materials, and no hobbies-- there's absolutely nothing to do but reminisce. The mental atrophy, and the boredom that must result from that kind of mindless existence is beyond estimation.

In life, everybody enjoys God's blessings; even the really bad people. We're all breathing fresh air, basking in sunshine, drinking cool water, savoring tasty foods, listening to birds chirp, star gazing at night, throwing snow balls at each other in winter, river rafting, fishing, snow skiing, tending gardens, pruning shrubs, greeting friends during the holidays, spending days with grandkids; and all that sort of thing. In the Bible's hell, there are no blessings of any kind at all: only perpetual sadness, vexation, despair, and want.

In hell's unruly society; it's reasonable to expect quarrels, bickering, hard feelings, vendettas, rivalry, selfishness, insensitivity, irritation, aggravation, and ugly words exchanged between people. Is there really any good reason to be courteous and/or respect your fellow man's human rights in the Bible's hell; or to be kind, forgiving, affable, genial, courteous, cordial, charitable, altruistic, tolerant, generous, and patient? I was once discussing the netherworld with a co-worker and he remarked: "Hell won't be so bad; I'll have plenty of friends down there". Yes, he probably will have lots of friends in hell; but I really don't think he should count on them being friendly.

And the din: think of the volume of noise down there with all the wailing and sobbing, and the moaning, shrieking, yelping, howling, gnashing teeth, and the constant complaining. I can only imagine how annoying it must be in hell with its thousands and millions of people making all that kind of racket.

But just imagine bringing with you a craving for tobacco with none available. Or longing for a cocktail with no liquor in sight. A desire for music, with no way to produce it. A skill for writing, with no pen and paper. Yearning for a walk out in nature, with no world to do it in.

People in hell will never again smell a sea breeze, sit in the shade of a tree, take deep breaths of mountain-fresh air, play at sports, hear a bird chirp, see a sunset, watch a lunar eclipse, jog in the park, strum a guitar, enjoy a Christmas dinner with loved ones; nor make little pigs of themselves gobbling barbecued spare ribs and corn on the 4th of July.

Sports and recreation are gone: no more World Series, no more Super Bowl, no more Olympics, no more Las Vegas, no more Indian casinos, no more lottery, no more Lego World, no more Sea World, no more NASCAR, no more golf, no more surfing, et al.

No baths, no showers, no sleep, no TV, no radio, no iPods, no computers, no Twitter, no texting, no FaceBook, no Instagram, no YouTube, no MySpace, no internet, no clean sheets, no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. No snacks, no gum, no candy, no flowers, no parks, no rivers, no snow, no seasons, no picnics, no malls, no fast food, no trades, no careers, no trendy fashions, no jewelry, no cosmetics, no concerts, no operas, and no hobbies; absolutely nothing of this world that brings people the pleasures and the satisfactions of just being alive.
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What about the people in heaven?do they remember the past, and the people they once knew and loved on earth? Do they have sadness for the ones they loved on earth? The babies?
 
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WebersHome

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What about the people in heaven? do they remember the past, and the people they once knew and loved on earth? Do they have sadness for the ones they loved on earth? The babies?


Heaven is described as a place of peace. (Isa 9:6-7, Rom 14:17, Phil 4:7)

When Lazarus passed away in the story told at Luke 16:19-31, he was comforted. (Luke 16:25)

Jesus promised his own that in him they would have peace. (John 14:27, John 16:33)

One of the components of the fruit of the Spirit is peace. (Gal 5:22)

There is coming a day when God plans to wipe away all tears. (Rev 7:17)

Joseph's life wasn't ideal, but God took steps to prevent him from dwelling on it. (Gen 41:51)
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Emmylouwho

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Heaven is described as a place of peace. (Isa 9:6-7, Rom 14:17, Phil 4:7)

When Lazarus passed away in the story told at Luke 16:19-31, he was comforted. (Luke 16:25)

Jesus promised his own that in him they would have peace. (John 14:27, John 16:33)

One of the components of the fruit of the Spirit is peace. (Gal 5:22)

There is coming a day when God plans to wipe away all tears. (Rev 7:17)

Joseph's life wasn't ideal, but God took steps to prevent him from dwelling on it. (Gen 41:51)
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Why
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Heaven is described as a place of peace. (Isa 9:6-7, Rom 14:17, Phil 4:7)

When Lazarus passed away in the story told at Luke 16:19-31, he was comforted. (Luke 16:25)

Jesus promised his own that in him they would have peace. (John 14:27, John 16:33)

One of the components of the fruit of the Spirit is peace. (Gal 5:22)

There is coming a day when God plans to wipe away all tears. (Rev 7:17)

Joseph's life wasn't ideal, but God took steps to prevent him from dwelling on it. (Gen 41:51)
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Other people on this thread say that in hell, people remember their past lives on earth. Do people in heaven remember their earthly lives as well? If not, why? As always, scriptural support is encouraged. Speculation is also welcomed, especially when acknowledged as such.
 
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WebersHome

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Ps 146:3-4 . . Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Some people, Christians no less, honestly believe the passage above teaches that people cease to exist when they pass away; but watch as I misquote it.

"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his mind dies"

No, it doesn't say his mind dies, it says his thoughts die; and there is a significant difference between one's mind and their cogitations.

Anyway, if people really did cease to exist when their body expires, then Christ would've ceased to exist when he passed away on the cross so that in order to restore his body back to life, it would've been necessary to create him back to existence. In other words; for three days and three nights, there would've been no Christ. No; I'm pretty sure Ps 146:3-4 is saying something very different.

Consider all those people who perished in the World Trade Center, in the Japan and Indonesia tsunamis, in the Haiti earthquake, and the people gunned down during an outdoor concert in Las Vegas not too long ago. None of them woke that day planning on it being their last on earth. No, on the contrary; they had people to see, places to go, and things to do: but in very short order; whatever was on their minds lost its importance-- their priorities went right out the window and became no more significant than green cheese on the moon.

All their plans, their dreams, their schedules, their appointments, their schemes, their problems, their aspirations, and their loves went right down the tubes as they were suddenly confronted with a whole new reality to cope with.

Sudden death can happen to anybody in the form of a stray bullet from a drive-by, a force of nature, gas explosion, choking on a piece of meat, electrocution, a drunk driver, a fall in the bath tub; bricks dropped from an overpass, or any number of out-of-the-blue surprises like the big truck that mowed down a crowd of people celebrating Bastille Day in France July 14, 2016

People need to start thinking about the afterlife now, while they have the chance; rather then risk being caught off guard by sudden death where there will be no time to think; and they find themselves suddenly thrust into the afterlife a lot sooner than they ever expected when a car accident, train wreck, plane crash, crime, heart attack, or stroke puts an abrupt end to every plan they ever made.

"The rich man said: I beg you, father, that you send Lazarus to my father's house-- for I have five brothers --that he may warn them, lest they also come to this place of torment." (Luke 16:27-28)

I suspect very strongly that the rich man was only too aware that his brothers were rational, intelligent men who saw no sensible reason to believe in an afterlife; after all, even Solomon said so. (Ecc 9:5, Ecc 9:10)

But Abraham didn't recommend Solomon, rather, he recommended much higher authorities.

"But Abraham said: They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them." (Luke 16:29)

The Bible says that Abraham himself was a prophet (Gen 20:7). Had the rich man believed the book of Genesis he would've listened to Abraham instead of arguing with him.

What can we suppose ever happened to the five brothers? Well; for sure that they believed neither Moses nor the Prophets; so I think we are safe to assume the worst: their fate was the same as the brother who went before them.
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FAQ: So there's an afterlife. What am I supposed to do about it?

A: Initiate a rapport with heaven. This is done via mediator.

1Tim 2:5-6 . . For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men

Simply find a private moment to speak up and tell Jesus that you're aware there's an afterlife and that that you're concerned about coming out on the wrong side of it. That'll get the ball rolling.

Be assured that your concern, if it's honest, won't end up in the round file.

John 6:37 . . All that the Father gives me shall come to me, and the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out.
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Jonah took ship from Joppa to travel to the city of Tarshish (Jonah 1:3). That city's exact location is contested; but I think most folk would agree that it lay somewhere in the direction of Spain. Anyway we can at least be pretty sure that Jonah's rendezvous with the big fish took place in the Mediterranean Sea.

Jonah's preaching was very successful in Nineveh; and Jesus specifically credited the prophet's success to his experience with the fish. (Matt 12:39-41)

Well the thing is; Nineveh's ruins are eleven miles north of Mosul Iraq, which itself is roughly 406 miles inland from the Mediterranean Sea as the crow flies. So my question is: How were the Ninevites aware that Jonah was a man back from dead if the city didn't actually observed him come ashore from the fish's mouth?

Somehow, in some way, the people of Nineveh were aware that Jonah survived drowning and digestion in a fish's tummy; a survival that could only be explained by an honest-to-gosh miracle. So when Jonah went round about the city threatening it with destruction; nobody mocked, nobody jested, and nobody poked fun-- instead, everybody got really scared; including their king, and as everybody familiar with the book of Nahum knows, the citizens of Nineveh were a really brutal people not easily intimidated.

This all tells me that Jonah's experience with the fish wasn't a contingency. It was in the plan all along, though the prophet likely didn't know it, because God needed something very persuasive to get those people's attention.

Well; Jonah's recovery worked for Nineveh, but some people are as dense as the wall of China.

Luke 16:27-31 . .The rich man said: I beg you, Father, that you send Lazarus to my father's house-- for I have five brothers --that he may warn them, lest they also come to this place of torment.

. . . But Abraham said: They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them. But he said: No, Father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent! But Abraham said to him: If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.
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