Gun Laws vs Death rates.

[Hank77]

People are naturally lazy and naturally want to live. Suicidal people have the urge to die conflicting with the urge to live. The difficulty in arranging a way to die can make all the difference between life and death. There is also the fear of having a botched attempt resulting in a painful survival, which will dissuade some.

See post #28

Which says to me the answer to suicides is better mental health care.

 

[Radagast]

I've provided them in other posts and probably to you. The CDC and FBI provide figures on these.

FBI data I've seen (for homicide in general) says:

• family or someone else the victim knew -- 44%
• confirmed stranger -- 12%
• unknown relationship -- 44%

 

[Radagast]

Well, the data supports the idea that people often do not choose another method to commit suicide if a gun is not available

US data that I've seen (unlike Australian data) does seem to suggest that limiting gun access can indeed reduce the suicide rate. This is presumably because the impulse to suicide is often relatively brief.

The key paragraph from that NEJM article is: "We recently examined the relationship between rates of household gun ownership and suicide in each of the 50 states for the period between 2000 and 2002. We used data on gun ownership from a large telephone survey (of more than 200,000 respondents) and controlled for rates of poverty, urbanization, unemployment, mental illness, and drug and alcohol dependence and abuse. Among men, among women, and in every age group (including children), states with higher rates of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm suicide and overall suicides. There was no association between firearm-ownership rates and nonfirearm suicides."

 

[Darkhorse]

You seem to be in favor of assault weapons that can fire up to 100 bullets per second. I will not try and change your attitude; hopefully others will think about changing gun laws to eliminate assault weapons that are used in mass killings

100 bullets per second? What movie is that from?

Hand-held state-of-the-art fully-automatic guns fire up to 20 rounds per second. The old "Tommy guns" of Prohibition days fired 10 per second.

You might find 100-round-per-second air-to-air machine guns in modern jet fighters, but anything hand-held would knock a person off their feet at that fire rate.

 

[Radagast]

100 bullets per second? What movie is that from?

Hand-held state-of-the-art automatic guns fire up to 20 rounds per second. The old "Tommy guns" of Prohibition days fired 10 per second.

And aren't fully automatic weapons illegal in the US, anyway?

 

[Darkhorse]

And aren't fully automatic weapons illegal in the US, anyway?

Technically, they are legal, but buying one requires payment of a $200 Federal tax, and a very-extensive background check. They and their owners are also registered with the federal government.

Since this registry was closed in 1986, no fully-automatic guns made after 1986 may be sold or owned in the U.S. - legally. This has driven the price for older machine guns up around $15,000, and they are mostly owned - legally - by collectors.

 

[Radagast]

Technically, they are legal, but buying one requires payment of a $200 Federal tax, and a very-extensive background check. They and their owners are also registered with the federal government.

Since this registry was closed in 1986, no fully-automatic guns made after 1986 may be sold or owned in the U.S. - legally. This has driven the price for older machine guns up around $15,000, and they are mostly owned - legally - by collectors.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Hank77]

See post 192.

And post #28 says that it isn't holding true. That gun suicides have declined with tougher gun laws but the suicide rate has stayed the same and that other methods have increased.

Here are two interactive maps. One is suicide rates by state 2014, the other is gun ownership by state 2014. Notice TX and MN rates in each map. Also look at MS which has one of the highest gun ownership rates and one of the lower suicide rates.
Stats of the State - Suicide Mortality
Gun Ownership Statistics by State - Demographic Data

Why does TX which has more gun ownership than NM or CO have such a lower rate of suicide?
The same with MN and WI and others compared to CO?
Compare ID rates with MS rates.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Quote of Darkhorse
Hand-held state-of-the-art fully-automatic guns fire up to 20 rounds per second.

In my last post I made a typing error. I said 100 bullets per second when I meant to say 100 bullets per minute. However, the point is that 20 rounds per second (1200 rounds per minute-fully automatic gun) or 100 rounds per minute-semi automatic gun should be banned for the public.


I am sure you have full knowledgeable of my point that automatic and semiautomatic weapons should not be available to the public. There are LOTS of guns that are not automatic or semi-automatic that can provide all the fire power needed for hunting and defending your family.

You do not want facts you just want to argue or defend the legality of automatic and semi-automatic weapons. My bottom line is still the same as reprinted below:

The bottom line is that you will defend assault weapons and AK-47s with “what if” hypotheticals and will refuse to try and reduce mass shooting killings.

I am not going to change your attitude and you are not going to change mine so let us let this post be last between you and I regarding this issue.

 

[SBC]

Gun Laws vs Death rates.

Gun Laws - already in place. People have the right to bare arms.
Gun Control - already in place. People control by exercising their right to have one or not.

Deaths - already in place. Everyone who is naturally born, shall die.

People's Right - Arrange your own affairs, don't infringe on others rights to do the same.
People's Right - Take care of your own affairs, household, and defend the same.

Government's Duty - Prosecute those who do infringe on others rights.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Radagast]

People have the right to bare arms.

 

[SBC]

LOL




Supreme Court extends rights of gun owners

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Yarddog]

I wish my guns still looked like that. Getting old is so humbling.

 

[Yarddog]

Gun Laws - already in place. People have the right to bare arms.

Agreed

Gun Control - already in place. People control by exercising their right to have one or not.

Agreed

Deaths - already in place. Everyone who is naturally born, shall die.

Agreed, but hopefully we can find ways for people to die naturally.

People's Right - Arrange your own affairs, don't infringe on others rights to do the same.

Not in our Constitution.

People's Right - Take care of your own affairs, household, and defend the same.

Not in our Constitution.
Many thing occur in households across the country that laws are in place to protect those within and without.

Government's Duty - Prosecute those who do infringe on others rights.

Whatever the laws of the land view as rights, not what individuals believe.

God Bless,

He has, and has, and has....

 

[SBC]

Not in our Constitution.
Not in our Constitution.

Liberty - You can define it as you please - However my liberty is given me BY GOD, not granted to me by Governments.

Many thing occur in households across the country that laws are in place to protect those within and without.

Households are their own government, with their own rules, and Head that sets and enforces the rules. And just like any other government that one does not wish the governing powers to have authority "over" them, they can depart out of that jurisdiction; ie in this case, the household.

Whatever the laws of the land view as rights, not what individuals believe.

The "LAW" of the LAND, was not given carte' blanche authority to SUPPRESS Liberty of individual men.

The "LAW" can issue consequence for infringing on an others liberty. And sadly the PEOPLE at large, beg the government to create laws all day long, to infringe on the liberty of others.
Sadly they do not recognize, the same will come around and affect them, until ALL men are oppressed and under the rule of a one world Dictatorial Government.
They can then be proud of themselves for being, hoodwinked, and a part of making such a government a success.

Peter Senge parable of the boiled frog.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[expos4ever]

And post #28 says that it isn't holding true...... That gun suicides have declined with tougher gun laws but the suicide rate has stayed the same and that other methods have increased.

This is not relevant, although I understand why one might think otherwise. We need to think carefully to avoid getting different things muddled up together. By the way, I think you meant to write:

And post #28 says that it isn't holding true...... That gun suicides have not declined with tougher gun laws but the suicide rate has stayed the same and that other methods have increased

Either way, my point was simply to point out that a reputable study showed that having a gun in the house increases suicide risk. Here is the key finding:

The association between guns in the home and the risk of suicide is due entirely to a large increase in the risk of suicide by firearm that is not counterbalanced by a reduced risk of nonfirearm suicide.

Now to your post 28. The fact that tough gun control correlates with increased use of other means only proves that some people will resort to other means if there is no gun in the house. The study I cited never denied that. It is not surprising that fewer guns will increase the percentage of suicides by other means.

But the key point is this: If you actually have a gun in your house, your risk of suicide goes up, and that this increase is not offset by choosing other means.

I hope this is clear.

 

[expos4ever]

Sadly they do not recognize, the same will come around and affect them, until ALL men are oppressed and under the rule of a one world Dictatorial Government

This appears to be speculation. Where is your evidence? I suggest that it is clear that, as time progresses, the world is getting less "dictatorial", not more. In the last few decades, the iron curtain has fallen, and a smattering of other nations have moved from autocracy to democracy.

 

[Hank77]

Now to your post 28. The fact that tough gun control correlates with increased use of other means only proves that some people will resort to other means if there is no gun in the house. The study I cited never denied that. It is not surprising that fewer guns will increase the percentage of suicides by other means.

Tougher gun laws does NOT mean that there is no gun in the house. You have added that description.

Gun safety laws make a difference and educating the gun owners about preventative measures to keep guns out of the hands of children and those who are suffering with mental illness, even if it is just temporary sadness or depression.

 

[Hank77]

This is not relevant, although I understand why one might think otherwise. We need to think carefully to avoid getting different things muddled up together. By the way, I think you meant to write:

And post #28 says that it isn't holding true...... That gun suicides have not declined with tougher gun laws but the suicide rate has stayed the same and that other methods have increased

Either way, my point was simply to point out that a reputable study showed that having a gun in the house increases suicide risk. Here is the key finding:

The association between guns in the home and the risk of suicide is due entirely to a large increase in the risk of suicide by firearm that is not counterbalanced by a reduced risk of nonfirearm suicide.

Now to your post 28. The fact that tough gun control correlates with increased use of other means only proves that some people will resort to other means if there is no gun in the house. The study I cited never denied that. It is not surprising that fewer guns will increase the percentage of suicides by other means.

But the key point is this: If you actually have a gun in your house, your risk of suicide goes up, and that this increase is not offset by choosing other means.

I hope this is clear.

Did you look at these maps I posted? If not please do and comment, if so please comment.
Especially on the states that I pointed out, or other similar statics, and explain these statistical findings that do not agree with your findings.

Here are two interactive maps. One is suicide rates by state 2014, the other is gun ownership by state 2014. Notice TX and MN rates in each map. Also look at MS which has one of the highest gun ownership rates and one of the lower suicide rates.
Stats of the State - Suicide Mortality
Gun Ownership Statistics by State - Demographic Data

Why does TX which has more gun ownership than NM or CO have such a lower rate of suicide?
The same with MN and WI and others compared to CO?
Compare ID rates with MS rates.

 

[Yarddog]

Liberty - You can define it as you please - However my liberty is given me BY GOD, not granted to me by Governments.
God didn't grant you liberty either. God gave us all tremendous responsibility.

Households are their own government, with their own rules, and Head that sets and enforces the rules.

The Head of the household, in Christianity has grave responsibilities to love as Jesus loved. Jesus also gave the Head of household the responsibility to obey the laws which his government set before him.

And just like any other government that one does not wish the governing powers to have authority "over" them, they can depart out of that jurisdiction; ie in this case, the household.

In many cases, but the head still has to obey the laws that have jurisdiction over him; in this case, the government which rules the country he lives in.

The "LAW" of the LAND, was not given carte' blanche authority to SUPPRESS Liberty of individual men.

The "LAW" of the LAND, in this case, the federal, state, and local governments, don't exercise carte blanche authority. They are elected by the people who have given them the authority to enact laws which allow or restrict its citizen to exercise their liberty within reason.

The "LAW" can issue consequence for infringing on an others liberty. And sadly the PEOPLE at large, beg the government to create laws all day long, to infringe on the liberty of others.

Sigh, so true...

Sadly they do not recognize, the same will come around and affect them, until ALL men are oppressed and under the rule of a one world Dictatorial Government.

Oh-oh.

Peter Senge

parable of the boiled frog.

Ever wonder who was the first to try that? I say cut his hind legs off and throw them in some flour and butter milk and toss them in some hot peanut oil. yum-yum. ;0