Guidance needed on qualifications

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I’m wondering if I can be rather honest with you all and receive some honest feedback. I am a few months away from moving with my wife and kids out to North Carolina to begin my Masters in Divinity program. It all fees pretty surreal. 6 years ago, I was still an Atheist. Still didn’t know who Jesus was. Still broken in many ways. Fast forward to today and I’m going down this whole new path. One I feel called to. One that I am so incredibly excited for. One that God continues opening doors for while shutting other doors that would be more logical for me to be able to walk through. Yet I can’t shake these feeling of not being good enough. Not being qualified enough. Not deserving. I can’t help but think maybe I should go in ten years when I’m not a “baby Christian.” Maybe I should go when I have my life all put together and I am a “good enough” Christian.

I’m coming to this forum hoping for someone to help me reconcile. Do any current pastors or seminary students empathize with this at all? Did you have any self-doubt? Maybe my doubts are correct? I think a lot about Paul. I think a lot about Moses. It’s just really hard for me to draw parallels to myself from two very profound Christian figures. Would love some objective thoughts from people who don’t know me so they may be less worried about hurting my feelings or speaking truth to me.

Thanks in advance and God Bless.
 

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I’m wondering if I can be rather honest with you all and receive some honest feedback. I am a few months away from moving with my wife and kids out to North Carolina to begin my Masters in Divinity program. It all fees pretty surreal. 6 years ago, I was still an Atheist. Still didn’t know who Jesus was. Still broken in many ways. Fast forward to today and I’m going down this whole new path. One I feel called to. One that I am so incredibly excited for. One that God continues opening doors for while shutting other doors that would be more logical for me to be able to walk through. Yet I can’t shake these feeling of not being good enough. Not being qualified enough. Not deserving. I can’t help but think maybe I should go in ten years when I’m not a “baby Christian.” Maybe I should go when I have my life all put together and I am a “good enough” Christian.

I’m coming to this forum hoping for someone to help me reconcile. Do any current pastors or seminary students empathize with this at all? Did you have any self-doubt? Maybe my doubts are correct? I think a lot about Paul. I think a lot about Moses. It’s just really hard for me to draw parallels to myself from two very profound Christian figures. Would love some objective thoughts from people who don’t know me so they may be less worried about hurting my feelings or speaking truth to me.

Thanks in advance and God Bless.
No one is ever "good" enough. Lord Jesus is good. The question is really simple. Is this God's will or not? I had the opposite problem. I was desperate to go to Bible college but every door slammed shut. I realised that it was not God's will for me. Christians grow at different speeds. I knew someone who knew the Lord better at a year in Christ than veteran pastors.

I do believe that God wants us to experience real life before seeking formal Bible qualifications. Is six years enough? That will vary from person to person. To be honest, it sounds a little too soon, but I don't know you so I'm not qualified to say. I suggest that you ask God to make it absolutely clear to you. Ask Him to cut it off if it is not his will. I've had to do that over other issues and He's been gracious enough to show me.
 
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Paidiske

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I started my MDiv six years after my baptism (and at the same age you are now, too). I knew I was a young Christian, but I also knew that starting study is the beginning of a process of preparation for ministry. Nobody expects you to have it all together on day one of college. This time of preparation will be a time of enormous growth and learning for you, in practical as well as intellectual ways. Trust the process; the people who will be overseeing your formation will (should) be wise and experienced and able to guide you.

No minister is perfect. We get out there, do our best, and still make mistakes, get things wrong sometimes, misjudge people and situations, and so on. Don't put pressure on yourself to be any different; that way lies nervous breakdown! But accept that, imperfect and limited as you are, God can and will work through your ministry for the blessing of others.
 
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topher694

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I’m wondering if I can be rather honest with you all and receive some honest feedback. I am a few months away from moving with my wife and kids out to North Carolina to begin my Masters in Divinity program. It all fees pretty surreal. 6 years ago, I was still an Atheist. Still didn’t know who Jesus was. Still broken in many ways. Fast forward to today and I’m going down this whole new path. One I feel called to. One that I am so incredibly excited for. One that God continues opening doors for while shutting other doors that would be more logical for me to be able to walk through. Yet I can’t shake these feeling of not being good enough. Not being qualified enough. Not deserving. I can’t help but think maybe I should go in ten years when I’m not a “baby Christian.” Maybe I should go when I have my life all put together and I am a “good enough” Christian.

I’m coming to this forum hoping for someone to help me reconcile. Do any current pastors or seminary students empathize with this at all? Did you have any self-doubt? Maybe my doubts are correct? I think a lot about Paul. I think a lot about Moses. It’s just really hard for me to draw parallels to myself from two very profound Christian figures. Would love some objective thoughts from people who don’t know me so they may be less worried about hurting my feelings or speaking truth to me.

Thanks in advance and God Bless.
Can I empathize? Absolutely. God does not call the qualified, He qualifies the called. The only way this feeling ever goes away is by stepping out and doing the work of the ministry and seeing the fruit from doing so. Try to balance the humbleness you feel now with the boldness needed to step out and minister and you'll be fine. You'll make mistakes, but fortunately for us all God is bigger than our mistakes. Good luck and blessings!
 
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No one is ever "good" enough. Lord Jesus is good. The question is really simple. Is this God's will or not? I had the opposite problem. I was desperate to go to Bible college but every door slammed shut. I realised that it was not God's will for me. Christians grow at different speeds. I knew someone who knew the Lord better at a year in Christ than veteran pastors.

I do believe that God wants us to experience real life before seeking formal Bible qualifications. Is six years enough? That will vary from person to person. To be honest, it sounds a little too soon, but I don't know you so I'm not qualified to say. I suggest that you ask God to make it absolutely clear to you. Ask Him to cut it off if it is not his will. I've had to do that over other issues and He's been gracious enough to show me.

Thank you for sharing with me and for the guidance. I’m sorry Bible a College did not work out for you I know that it can be tough to want something and have doors closed. I admire you for keeping your faith and trust in God through this, not everyone does that. I will continue to work to give it up to God regardless of how I personally feel about this situation either way and reignite my trust in His will. Thank you for the feedback.

I started my MDiv six years after my baptism (and at the same age you are now, too). I knew I was a young Christian, but I also knew that starting study is the beginning of a process of preparation for ministry. Nobody expects you to have it all together on day one of college. This time of preparation will be a time of enormous growth and learning for you, in practical as well as intellectual ways. Trust the process; the people who will be overseeing your formation will (should) be wise and experienced and able to guide you.

No minister is perfect. We get out there, do our best, and still make mistakes, get things wrong sometimes, misjudge people and situations, and so on. Don't put pressure on yourself to be any different; that way lies nervous breakdown! But accept that, imperfect and limited as you are, God can and will work through your ministry for the blessing of others.

Thank you for this response and for the reminder that this is just the start. The self doubt can plague me at times and it took me a long time to even be baptized, because in my misguided understanding, I felt I needed to be “fixed” first. I am assuming my self doubt will certainly be pivotal in my growth moving forward. Would love to hear more about your M.Div experience and any tips or guidance you have if you would be willing to spare some time? Maybe in a personal message?

Can I empathize? Absolutely. God does not call the qualified, He qualifies the called. The only way this feeling ever goes away is by stepping out and doing the work of the ministry and seeing the fruit from doing so. Try to balance the humbleness you feel now with the boldness needed to step out and minister and you'll be fine. You'll make mistakes, but fortunately for us all God is bigger than our mistakes. Good luck and blessings!

Thank you for the response! I think ultimately what I am getting from everyone’s posts, including yours, is to take it off of myself and give it up to God. Which I certainly knew but as we all know it can be easier said than done sometimes. I will continue to work on that within myself, work on allowing him to work in me, work on trusting His will more than my understanding, and work on putting my confidence in him and not in my own abilities or inabilities.


Thank you everyone for the guidance and the reminders. You have all been tremendously helpful.
 
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Paidiske

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Would love to hear more about your M.Div experience and any tips or guidance you have if you would be willing to spare some time? Maybe in a personal message?

I'm happy to share with you, but I'm not sure what it would be helpful to tell you. Is there anything you'd like to ask about?

I think one thing that made a big difference for me was finding a mentor; someone I could trust to have my own welfare at heart, to guide me, correct me when needed, and offer me perspective from their own experience. When things got difficult, having someone willing to give to me of their time and care in that way probably kept me going rather than giving up.
 
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Do any current pastors or seminary students empathize with this at all? Did you have any self-doubt?

I was in a very similar situation to you. In probably eight years, I went from not caring at all for religion to beginning my M.Div. Looking back, I know that is exactly why God called me back to the church. And sure, I had lots of doubts. Heck, I still do! :)
 
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I get it.

I spent 4 years in college as an evangelical Atheist. I shared the truth of Atheism with all the "Born Again" misguided "Christians" I could. I gathered almost 10,000 bible errors, and floor to knee scientific and archaeological data to prove the bible was completely unreliable and untrustworthy, and used the bible itself as a tool to tear their relationship with their God down and burn the remains to cinders.

Paul was a sinner, hostile to God, but he just killed Christians. Me ... I destroyed their relationship with their Father. Paul was a good guy. Still ... He who is forgiven much loves much ... If you love me you will keep My commandments ... Yeah, God got ahold of me too. If you love truth and someone gets you evidence that you are wrong and you get to change your beliefs to truth ... you win. If you love truth and the evidence is not there and your beliefs remain ... you win. If you love your beliefs, well, then you end up responding like those in Mat. 7:6 a lot, and you forgot to practice Mat. 7:1-5.

Understand where you are headed:

Mat 28:19 "Having Gone: make disciples of all the nations, baptizing "Disciples" in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 and teach disciples to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Ministry in a nutshell. Understand that all belief groups that believe themselves to be Christians do the first two. The problem is with the third one. Every belief group, including Atheists Agnostics, Moslems, Jews ... knows that they love truth and have truth. Ergo, when they teach, they teach how to hold fast to their "beliefs" "as" truth. Getting to truth is a different story. Yet ... everyone gets whatever they need to hold fast to the beliefs they love as truth, regardless of what those beliefs may be? How? They all do the same things and they all go to the scriptures for the same purpose. To justify the beliefs they love, and to justify their living in accordance with them.

2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

(Note: Everybody gets what they want. Either complete assurance that their beliefs are "fact" or ... they receive a love of the truth and do something different. The question is, are you on the broad path that every belief group uses to hold fast to what they want to believe, or the narrow one.)

See if you can tell the difference between the first methodology of going to scripture and the second. The first guarantees that the more practiced you are with doing it with whatever beliefs you love, the more hardened into those beliefs you will become, and the more closed your eyes and ears will be to anything else. Think about what people share ... their pearls ... what is "Holy to them":

1.) We share the proof that verifies our views are the correct ones. What else do we share?

2.) We share the evidence that proves the other person’s views are off. How do we interpret everything?

3.) We Interpret everything in the light of what we “know” is truth. What is truth? For each of us, the truth is our beliefs. Ergo, all correct interpretations … of all “valid” data, must support … or at least not negate, our infallible beliefs.

When our beliefs are questioned, what do each of us jump back to? … The things in these three categories.

No matter what our belief group, or beliefs, we all share what we know “verifies our beliefs”, proves all “opposing beliefs” false and our interpretations of everything always line up with what each of us knows is truth. And, no matter what our beliefs, no matter what group we are in, our core beliefs “are” “truth”. And, of course, …

4.) Anything that doesn’t seem to fit with our views, we reinterpret, ignore, discredit, invalidate …

What “else” cements us into our current views?

5.) We may have experiences, signs, or other facts that are important to us. Things like: We have a burning in the bosom, we speak in tongues, we perform signs or wonders, a statue of Mary came to life and told us our belief groups views are correct, we have prayed to God for the truth and received “feelings” or even signs from heaven. Or, on a more concrete level we have facts about our belief group. Things like: Our belief group is the oldest, largest, fastest growing, wealthiest, has the most experts with doctorates… We include anything that adds assurance that our way is the best way.”

I call #1-5 above Methodology One: The Methodology of Belief Groups

But that is the process we use if we love our beliefs about God ... Those who love truth have a different process. One designed to force the beliefs to conform to the truth. The above process forces the truth to conform to whatever it is we want to believe. Just look around at all the different beliefs and belief groups doing the previous process.

1.) Rule #1: Avoid “Methodology One”: Proving your beliefs true and holding fast to them, is not the same as, “Proving all things over and over again as a habit and way of life, and holding fast to what is good/true.”

2.) Open-mindedness: All belief groups believe in being open minded … “until” you accept their beliefs. Then they believe in being as closed as possible. If you love truth, you will continually remain open-minded to altering any or all of your beliefs in the light of the fullness of the truth, when everything that “might” pertain to the topic at hand is rightly divided. Of course, this will put you at odds with your “belief” group. To them it is their core beliefs that are essential.

3.) Habitual ongoing Labor/ Getting Every Piece of Data that Might Pertain: If you Love Truth, you, personally, must become a manual laborer and keep on gathering every fact anyone thinks might pertain to every topic at hand. Then gather all the data that “might pertain” no belief group gathers because they can’t use that information to prove their beliefs true or opposing beliefs false.

4.) Consistency with Background Context: Pick a meaning that fully aligns with the historical, legal, architectural, agricultural … context.

5.) Consistency of Meaning of words/root words/figures of speech: Hold to a meaning for all words, root words, and figures of speech consistent with their usage throughout the Old and New Testament. We have a Greek Old and New Testament and a Hebrew Old Testament, pick a meaning fully fitting everywhere the same word, root word, and figure of speech is used.

6.) Consistency with the Surrounding Discussion: Hold to a meaning consistent with the entire discussion surrounding the verse or passage being considered, hold to the flow of thought, flow of arguments, meaning of points made …

7.) Consistency with conscience: Example: If your interpretation would be a sin if a man did likewise and your interpretation results in believing God does what would be sin for us, your interpretation is wrong. i.e., there are no illustrations in the Bible where God says He commits adultery. If your chosen meaning for the word adultery would make God an adulterer, and by His own admission, you picked the wrong meaning for the word.

8.) God, God’s People and God’s Word are 100% consistent: Pick an interpretation for all the data that makes God, God’s people and God’s word 100% consistent in “all” they say and do and “all” they don’t say and don’t do. Any inconsistencies, are proof of incorrect beliefs/definitions.

9.) Always apply logic, reason, and rational thinking: Pick an interpretation fully fitting with all logic, reason, and rational thinking. (i.e., if the writer spent a whole chapter saying all gifts are equal and necessary, that none are greater than any others, … do not choose an interpretation for the very next verse that would command us to desire what God spent the previous 30 verses saying doesn’t exist, and that you can’t get, period, regardless of your desire. “Earnestly desire the greater gifts”, contradicts everything prior. Look for the “other” possible meaning. Note: There is one.

10.) Start with the Easiest/Clearest … data on the topic: Interpret the clearest, easiest understood, most straightforward data/passages first—then the more complex or difficult passages. The complex, convoluted, and difficult passages are easy to distort to fit beliefs.

11.) It ALL fits together: Pick a meaning for the parts that fully fit with the whole of the data that might pertain without adding meaning, subtracting meaning, or distorting anything to force it to comply with your beliefs. If everything gathered (#3 above) does not fully fit with everything in #4-10 above, you have the wrong meaning, and you are forcing the scriptures to fit what you want to believe “as” truth.

12.) Keep on continuously proving all things over and over again as a habit and way of life and never stop … and hold fast to what is good/true. Getting to truth is an ongoing process that never ends. One single verse, one fact you missed, one slight change in interpretation … can force a complete reevaluation and even a complete a change of beliefs.

13.) It’s all on You! Trusting others to get to truth “for” you, is like trusting others to have a relationship with your wife / husband / kids “for” you. It cannot be done.

Understand, “Agreement with me might only make us both wrong.”

God seeks those who will worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. The first methodology results in a lot of zealots for every belief you now see on the planet. It results in hardening all of those people more and more into what they want to believe. It cannot EVER get anyone practicing that methodology from incorrect beliefs "TO" truth.

Receive a love of the truth so as to be saved is not the same as loving what you "believe" to be truth. Love truth and you will sacrifice any or all of your current beliefs to get it. Love your beliefs and God will get you whatever it is you need to have complete assurance that your beliefs are "fact", but only those who receive a love of the truth will be saved.

As to the guilt... There is nothing I can do to undo the dozens of Christians having their faith in their God destroyed. I never took names and numbers. But... I believe God... I labor more than a lot of my contemporaries because I am a debtor to both Jew and Greek ... I owe everyone the truth, not what I believe to be truth, but how to know the difference, so they can get to the truth of all God's word says and means on every topic and thus complete the third part of the great commission .... Teach Disciples to OBEY ALL that I have commanded you.

I owe a debt no sane person could ever imagine paying off. Christ owns me, top to bottom, side to side, and all I have is on loan from Him, including my life. Do I regret my sins? Always. My destruction of the faith of others foremost. That said, If you love Me you will ... I love and I do... I have been forgiven so much. We will see by your consistent labors how much you have been forgiven for. Be a workman who need not be ashamed ... learn the difference between the Methodologies above and only do studies with those willing to forgo the first and focus on the second. God bless you brother. I can't wait to see what God does with you.
 
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The Liturgist

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I was in a very similar situation to you. In probably eight years, I went from not caring at all for religion to beginning my M.Div. Looking back, I know that is exactly why God called me back to the church. And sure, I had lots of doubts. Heck, I still do! :)

Are you Episcopalian or with another Anglican church? I love meeting all our Anglican clergy because of the professionalism and blend of liturgical perspective and knowledge of pastoral care and best practices for what the C of E calls “safeguarding.” Its just pure professionalism.
 
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Deegie

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Are you Episcopalian or with another Anglican church? I love meeting all our Anglican clergy because of the professionalism and blend of liturgical perspective and knowledge of pastoral care and best practices for what the C of E calls “safeguarding.” Its just pure professionalism.

Hey there. I'm a priest in the Episcopal Church. I know I've seen you around here...I just don't post a whole lot. :)
 
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