Groundbreaking Paper Shows Thousands of New Genes Needed for the Origin of Animals

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Someday we may get tired of being vindicated. But not yet! Günter Bechly recently discussed a new paper that confirmed Stephen Meyer’s claims in Darwin’s Doubt that arthropods appeared abruptly in the Cambrian explosion, without evolutionary precursors in the Precambrian. Another recent groundbreaking paper in Nature Communications has also provided massive confirmation of Meyer’s arguments in the book that new genes were required at the origin of animals.

An Uncontroversial Idea?
Whether you’re an evolutionary biologist or a proponent of intelligent design, the notion that the origin of animals required new genes — even numerous new genes — might strike you as uncontroversial. But this claim was strongly challenged by UC Berkeley evolutionary paleontologist Charles Marshall who reviewed Darwin’s Doubt in the journal Science. It actually became a centerpiece of the debate between Marshall and Meyer about the Cambrian explosion. (For replies to Marshall, see here, here, here, here, here, and here.) Here’s the substance of Marshall’s counter-argument, as it was published in Science:....

....In that regard, the new Nature Communications paper shows that Marshall’s evolutionary viewpoint faces information problems on two fronts. Figure 2c indicates that by far the largest classes of novel genes in the metazoa are related to generating nucleic acid binding proteins, and transcription factors. This suggests that not only were many new genes needed in the origin of Metazoa, but those new genes had profound influences on gene regulation — i.e., they were involved with rewiring of GRNs.

Thus both Meyer and Marshall were right that dGRNs needed to be wired to build animals — but they were right in the most devastating manner for Darwinism, namely that the rewiring of the dGRNS was mediated by entirely new genes. The paper’s demonstration that thousands of new genes would have been required during the origin of animals is nothing short of a spectacular vindication of Meyer’s perspective on this question, and a strong falsification of Marshall’s viewpoint.

https://evolutionnews.org/2018/06/g...f-new-genes-needed-for-the-origin-of-animals/
 

Bugeyedcreepy

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but they were right in the most devastating manner for Darwinism,
seems to be mostly right if not for this falsity near the end. Do you have any idea how devastating it has actually been for Evolution? because Darwinism isn't really a thing anymore... it hasn't been for a while now.
 
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bcbsr

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Someday we may get tired of being vindicated. But not yet! Günter Bechly recently discussed a new paper that confirmed Stephen Meyer’s claims in Darwin’s Doubt that arthropods appeared abruptly in the Cambrian explosion, without evolutionary precursors in the Precambrian. Another recent groundbreaking paper in Nature Communications has also provided massive confirmation of Meyer’s arguments in the book that new genes were required at the origin of animals.

An Uncontroversial Idea?
Whether you’re an evolutionary biologist or a proponent of intelligent design, the notion that the origin of animals required new genes — even numerous new genes — might strike you as uncontroversial. But this claim was strongly challenged by UC Berkeley evolutionary paleontologist Charles Marshall who reviewed Darwin’s Doubt in the journal Science. It actually became a centerpiece of the debate between Marshall and Meyer about the Cambrian explosion. (For replies to Marshall, see here, here, here, here, here, and here.) Here’s the substance of Marshall’s counter-argument, as it was published in Science:....

....In that regard, the new Nature Communications paper shows that Marshall’s evolutionary viewpoint faces information problems on two fronts. Figure 2c indicates that by far the largest classes of novel genes in the metazoa are related to generating nucleic acid binding proteins, and transcription factors. This suggests that not only were many new genes needed in the origin of Metazoa, but those new genes had profound influences on gene regulation — i.e., they were involved with rewiring of GRNs.

Thus both Meyer and Marshall were right that dGRNs needed to be wired to build animals — but they were right in the most devastating manner for Darwinism, namely that the rewiring of the dGRNS was mediated by entirely new genes. The paper’s demonstration that thousands of new genes would have been required during the origin of animals is nothing short of a spectacular vindication of Meyer’s perspective on this question, and a strong falsification of Marshall’s viewpoint.

https://evolutionnews.org/2018/06/g...f-new-genes-needed-for-the-origin-of-animals/
I assume the evolutionists would explain the origin of such genes by saying, "Well, since it was necessary then it must have happened, and evolution did it."
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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I assume the evolutionists would explain the origin of such genes by saying, "Well, since it was necessary then it must have happened, and evolution did it."
Well, there are well-understood mechanisms for how that happens, we can see it happen in life forms today. How do you suggest it happens, and what evidence can you bring to the table in support of it?
 
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SkyWriting

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Well, there are well-understood mechanisms for how that happens, we can see it happen in life forms today. How do you suggest it happens, and what evidence can you bring to the table in support of it?

You failed to inform us of what you claim we already understand in your post.
 
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SkyWriting

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Well, there are well-understood mechanisms for how that happens...

The Outer Space theories? WhOOOoooOoooo
Panspermia - Wikipedia
upload_2018-6-16_10-41-7.png

Panspermia is the hypothesis that life exists throughout the Universe, distributed by space dust, meteoroids, asteroids, comets, planetoids, and also by
 
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'Genetic novelty' doesn't mean genes popped into existence from nothing. The vast majority of the time, it means genes being used for different purposes than those that they originally evolved for.

There are many pathways to genetic novelty. For example, gene duplication is quite a common occurrence, and can allow the duplicate gene to accrue mutations and take on a different purpose over time. That's because the duplicate gene is superfluous, it isn't needed.

An example of genetic novelty arising by another method, and one that fascinates me, occurred about 50 million years ago. A retrovirus inserted some of its genome into the germline cells of a particular mammal lineage, allowing the virus genes to be passed on to the descendants of those mammals. The two genes in question coded for the ability of the virus to attach itself to and infect the cells of its host, and to avoid the immune system of its host. These genes, ultimately, were co-opted by the mammals to produce the placenta, facilitate the flow of nutrients between the mother and the fetus and to allow the fetus to avoid the mothers immune system.

This process took place on several occasions within the same lineage, giving different groups of placental mammals up to three copies of these genes, which produced the many different types of placenta that exist today.

Retroviruses push the envelope for mammalian placentation
 
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bcbsr

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Well, there are well-understood mechanisms for how that happens, we can see it happen in life forms today. How do you suggest it happens, and what evidence can you bring to the table in support of it?
So you're saying that scientists have done laboratory experiments, creating life without intelligent intervention solely by stochastic chemistry combined with self-replication, mutation and selection. Can you provide a link to that experiment?

Evolution: stochastic chemistry combined with self-replication, mutation and selection
Theistic Evolution: stochastic chemistry combined with self-replication, mutation and selection plus divine intervention.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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There's no problem for evolutionary science. The discussion section of the paper suggests two plausible explanations for the observations, the second of which is also consistent with observations elsewhere:
The second possibility involves many new genes emerging during a short ‘popcorn’ stage, caused either by a higher gene birth rate (perhaps produced by environmental factors elevating mutation rates, or due to whole-genome duplications), and/or a lower gene death rate (due to high integration of new genes into regulatory networks). In this scenario, the acquisition of multicellularity would quickly stabilise new molecular systems for cell adhesion, cell communication and the control of differential gene expression, as shown by the increase in proportion of Novel Core HG seen in the metazoan ancestor. These include genes previously hypothesized to be pivotal in the emergence of Metazoa, with additional genes singled out here for the first time as agents involved in the transition. This scenario is also consistent with enhanced rates of gene novelty in the ancestors of Planulozoa and Bilateria when embryonic patterning systems were being elaborated.
 
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pitabread

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So you're saying that scientists have done laboratory experiments, creating life without intelligent intervention

Why would scientists need to recreate the origin of life just to understand how gene duplication works? :scratch:
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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You failed to inform us of what you claim we already understand in your post.
The Outer Space theories? WhOOOoooOoooo
Panspermia - WikipediaView attachment 231179
Panspermia is the hypothesis that life exists throughout the Universe, distributed by space dust, meteoroids, asteroids, comets, planetoids, and also by
So you're saying that scientists have done laboratory experiments, creating life without intelligent intervention solely by stochastic chemistry combined with self-replication, mutation and selection. Can you provide a link to that experiment?

Evolution: stochastic chemistry combined with self-replication, mutation and selection
Theistic Evolution: stochastic chemistry combined with self-replication, mutation and selection plus divine intervention.
So, I'd go to the effort of researching and providing you an answer, but both @That Guy 11200 and @pitabread have succinctly covered those bases already... (Thanks Guys!) - See posts 8 and 9.
 
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SkyWriting

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So, I'd go to the effort of researching and providing you an answer, but both @That Guy 11200 and @pitabread have succinctly covered those bases already... (Thanks Guys!) - See posts 8 and 9.

Both of those cover how genes are designed to diversify and create a variety of functions and fail to explain the reason for the cambrian explosion.
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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Both of those cover how genes are designed to diversify and create a variety of functions and fail to explain the reason for the cambrian explosion.
No it doesn't fail, that IS the reason for the cambrian explosion.
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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Again, you fail to provide your source for what "we all already understand."
Holy Moley, are you serious? Google it! In the mean time, a number of people have already provided this for you:
'Genetic novelty' doesn't mean genes popped into existence from nothing. The vast majority of the time, it means genes being used for different purposes than those that they originally evolved for.

There are many pathways to genetic novelty. For example, gene duplication is quite a common occurrence, and can allow the duplicate gene to accrue mutations and take on a different purpose over time. That's because the duplicate gene is superfluous, it isn't needed.

An example of genetic novelty arising by another method, and one that fascinates me, occurred about 50 million years ago. A retrovirus inserted some of its genome into the germline cells of a particular mammal lineage, allowing the virus genes to be passed on to the descendants of those mammals. The two genes in question coded for the ability of the virus to attach itself to and infect the cells of its host, and to avoid the immune system of its host. These genes, ultimately, were co-opted by the mammals to produce the placenta, facilitate the flow of nutrients between the mother and the fetus and to allow the fetus to avoid the mothers immune system.

This process took place on several occasions within the same lineage, giving different groups of placental mammals up to three copies of these genes, which produced the many different types of placenta that exist today.

Retroviruses push the envelope for mammalian placentation


There's no problem for evolutionary science. The discussion section of the paper suggests two plausible explanations for the observations, the second of which is also consistent with observations elsewhere:
The second possibility involves many new genes emerging during a short ‘popcorn’ stage, caused either by a higher gene birth rate (perhaps produced by environmental factors elevating mutation rates, or due to whole-genome duplications), and/or a lower gene death rate (due to high integration of new genes into regulatory networks). In this scenario, the acquisition of multicellularity would quickly stabilise new molecular systems for cell adhesion, cell communication and the control of differential gene expression, as shown by the increase in proportion of Novel Core HG seen in the metazoan ancestor. These include genes previously hypothesized to be pivotal in the emergence of Metazoa, with additional genes singled out here for the first time as agents involved in the transition. This scenario is also consistent with enhanced rates of gene novelty in the ancestors of Planulozoa and Bilateria when embryonic patterning systems were being elaborated.
 
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SkyWriting

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Holy Moley, are you serious? Google it! In the mean time, a number of people have already provided this for you:

suggests two plausible explanations

Gosh, I love "Plausible" facts!
So you still don't' understand it yourself then. Your faith is strong, young Jedi.

Ediacarans: the 'long fuse' of the Cambrian explosion? | New Scientist
What sparked the Cambrian explosion? : Nature News & Comment
Causes of the Cambrian Explosion | Science
What Caused the Cambrian Explosion? | NCSE
Evolutionary 'Big Bang' Was Triggered by Multiple Events - Live Science









 
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bcbsr

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Why would scientists need to recreate the origin of life just to understand how gene duplication works? :scratch:
Because evolutionists are falsely extrapolating one little thing fact into an explanation of all the functional complexity of life. Unlike what you claim, it's not been experimentally proven. You just imagine it to be so.
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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The Cambrian explosion took a mind-numbing 25-50 million years! There was a further 60-70 or so million years prior to that where multi-celled life forms got their act together (genetically speaking), so your reservations over the emergence of the first animals and plants over that 120 million year timeframe seems strange when you consider that we've only been around in our current form for maybe 200 to 300 thousand years by comparison. We even know of mammals larger than us that have undergone an entirely terrestrial life to an entirely deep-water oceanic life in less than half that time. Your incredulity isn't a replacement for the facts and evidence.

You might feel fine taking any number of things by faith, but there's no faith for me, thanks!
 
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