Greed...The Worst of the Deadly Sins??

zephcom

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Frankly, socialism is a failed system. It doesn't work because there's no incentive to work. And what you propose makes no sense whatsoever... Do you think people under socialism don't want to make money? Of course they do, they just don't have the opportunity to better themselves. They are no less "greedy", and you can be sure that the ones that are ambitious will chafe at that system, as their potential is wasted.
One can only marvel that on one hand someone can list themselves as a person who worships Jesus and on the other hand says that His teachings don't work.

When one ONLY studies Jesus' teachings as found in the New Testament, one will find that the concepts of socialism provide a far better fit with Jesus' teachings than do the concepts of capitalism.

That is not to say that socialism can't be corrupted just as capitalism has been corrupted. But when one looks at Jesus' teachings and see Him teaching the care and feeding of all humanity without regard for one's own safety, security or even life rather than caring first for oneself and only using the excess for others one has to conclude socialism is a better fit for His teachings than capitalism.

Far too often people look at current examples of both and conclude that Jesus was wrong because of biases they have grown up with. Jesus included one thing in His teachings that doesn't exist in either contemporary forms of socialism or capitalism...the absolute reliance on God to provide for them.

A socialism which also includes the absolute reliance on God to provide may well work beautifully. We don't know because humans have never tried it. Capitalism, by its very nature, demands each individual rely on themselves to provide. There is no room for God in Capitalism.
 
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zephcom

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Take away all the fossil fuels, and the climate will still change just as it always has. There's no proof that it has any real affect, all smoke and mirrors.
Normal climate changes are not the issue. Man made Climate Change which has accelerated what nature takes thousands of years to achieve to a hundred to two hundred years is what the fossil fuel industry has helped to accomplish.
 
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renniks

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That is not to say that socialism can't be corrupted just as capitalism has been corrupted. But when one looks at Jesus' teachings and see Him teaching the care and feeding of all humanity without regard for one's own safety, security or even life rather than caring first for oneself and only using the excess for others one has to conclude socialism is a better fit for His teachings than capitalism.
You'll notice that Jesus did not preach these things to the government. He told the people to take care of the poor. He was not instituting a system of government, he was starting a church. The Bible has tons of information about how to take care of your money wisely. Obviously that wouldn't be in there if God wanted everyone to give it all away. A Christian who does well for himself has more opportunity to help others.
 
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zephcom

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You'll notice that Jesus did not preach these things to the government. He told the people to take care of the poor. He was not instituting a system of government, he was starting a church. The Bible has tons of information about how to take care of your money wisely. Obviously that wouldn't be in there if God wanted everyone to give it all away. A Christian who does well for himself has more opportunity to help others.
Actually, Jesus was not creating a government -or- a religion. He created a way of life. And money is not an economic engine. Money is just a substitute for bartering. Money functions equally well within any economic system.

The way of life Jesus taught is still more similar to socialism than it is to capitalism. It is a way of life in which the Follower of His teachings considers him/herself as a servant to all other people. And that perspective is far more like socialism than capitalism.
 
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renniks

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It is a way of life in which the Follower of His teachings considers him/herself as a servant to all other people. And that perspective is far more like socialism than capitalism.
Only in your mind. capitalism works precisely because it values the individual. If I start a small business, in a capitalistic society, how far I can take it is only limited by my own ambition. In its original form, capitalism creates a society where each person has a trade that compliments another person's trade, and all have the freedom to advance. This creates the most harmonious world possible. Jesus was living under a dictatorship, which is a lot more like socialism than capitalism. No wonder he told the people to take care of the poor. All the government did was oppress them. Sooner or later people under these type of governments people get fed up and rebel. We saw communist Russia fall in my lifetime, just like every socialist system eventually does.
 
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com7fy8

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Any human system can be corrupted. And God can have His children doing things right, during any system.

The early church had all things common. But Ananias and Sapphira betrayed it. But Paul was on good terms with Philemon who was well-to-do, who could have been a capitalist.

But if a capitalist does things right, he or she can operate in a socialistic manner, I think. Paul says for masters to give what is fair to the people under their authority. Possibly, you need capitalist owners, but they operate socialistically with people under them who are not knowledgeable and competent and honest enough to get themselves to do things in common.

In any case, you can't have what works, unless the ones in authority are honest and caring. And I see that many people don't even care, rightly, about their own selves . . . all through any country's population. And so, no system is really working right.

Plus we need to not depend, emotionally, on the system which humans around us are operating. But trust God and have peace because we are depending on Him, and >

"be content with such things as you have" (in Hebrews 13:5).

God is mainly concerned with how we operate, in our hearts. We can make His use of any system.
 
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com7fy8

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Greed overruled rational thinking and now the planet is steaming full speed ahead into an Apocalypse which could have been easily avoided had people been told the truth about fossil fuels in the '60s.

And had people been told about the danger of smoking . . . ?

The people could have instructed their representative government
My point is, even now, people have enough info and even instruction by doctors, so intelligent kids can see the trickery of smoking and not start . . . even if their own parents are trying to get them to smoke.

So, why don't individuals see the dirty trick and refuse to go along with it?

The people could do that now except we have allowed capitalism to purchase the votes of our representatives. We no longer have the ability to expect government to protected us from the hazards of Capitalism.
I think it is not only about the representatives.

Maybe it is like how people were legally forbidden to use alcohol, but they found illegal ways to do it. And ones had organized killing, even, in order to keep their drinking going > even though anyone could see how it for a number of people was wrecking their lives.

People can see the addiction, but do the stuff, anyway. It is well known now how people are OD-ing and dying and being kept as slaves of dealers; yet, you still see individuals choosing to be prostitutes and using prostitutes, in connection with drugs.

So, I see it is not only a problem of the overall system, but we humans are our own real problem, too.

People don't have to wait for representatives; we have various cases in which people simply publicize something and make it a cause and take care of it. But this is not happening, for smoking, drinking, fake sex, and what people are choosing to drive, and which businesses and products they serve as customers.

People could easily choose to drive generic cars. Why not? Or, make choices in that direction and make it clear how they won't buy anything bigger and which uses more gas. Plus, we could easily use our cars only when really needed, and car pool for shopping, and even recreation.

The problem is how we are, or can be. And only God can change our character . . . so we can't be fooled and aren't lazy about the right way to do things.
 
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zephcom

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My point is, even now, people have enough info and even instruction by doctors, so intelligent kids can see the trickery of smoking and not start . . . even if their own parents are trying to get them to smoke.

So, why don't individuals see the dirty trick and refuse to go along with it?

I think it is not only about the representatives.

Maybe it is like how people were legally forbidden to use alcohol, but they found illegal ways to do it. And ones had organized killing, even, in order to keep their drinking going > even though anyone could see how it for a number of people was wrecking their lives.

People can see the addiction, but do the stuff, anyway. It is well known now how people are OD-ing and dying and being kept as slaves of dealers; yet, you still see individuals choosing to be prostitutes and using prostitutes, in connection with drugs.

So, I see it is not only a problem of the overall system, but we humans are our own real problem, too.

People don't have to wait for representatives; we have various cases in which people simply publicize something and make it a cause and take care of it. But this is not happening, for smoking, drinking, fake sex, and what people are choosing to drive, and which businesses and products they serve as customers.

People could easily choose to drive generic cars. Why not? Or, make choices in that direction and make it clear how they won't buy anything bigger and which uses more gas. Plus, we could easily use our cars only when really needed, and car pool for shopping, and even recreation.

The problem is how we are, or can be. And only God can change our character . . . so we can't be fooled and aren't lazy about the right way to do things.

I think the real issue here is not whether people have the ability to choose to not do things but whether society should have both the right and duty to protect itself from things which cause broad hazards for society.

Certainly prohibiting alcohol didn't work. There are some pointed reasons why it didn't work. I think a couple of the most important reasons were 1) the prohibition was largely based on religious reasons and not protection of society and 2) alcohol is extremely easy to produce.

Tobacco, OTOH, has very serious societal reasons that compel it to be banned. Tobacco is a major reason why medical care in America is so costly. We are ALL paying through the nose so that the tobacco industry can continue enticing people to smoke and thereby acquiring a life long addiction.

Second hand smoke is also a serious issue for people who have avoided the product. That spreads the danger beyond the user.

Banning tobacco products would be easier than alcohol because the product is both time consuming and costly to produce on the individual level.

Certainly smuggling would be a problem, but I think a ban, done properly would be effective. IMMHO, doing it effectively would be structured in a way which allows the addicted people to continue purchasing the product from very limited locations, raising the minimum age to purchase to 21 and then raising that age one year each year, banning all advertising and promotional events by the tobacco industry and requiring the industry to provide the product without any profit markup.

Had that been done back in the Sixties, virtually all the addicted smokers would have died by now and we would not be creating newly addicted people.

I think it is great for individuals to be able to choose to not do things which are hazardous to themselves. But Society has responsibilities to all of us so that we can all be able to live happy and productive lives.

And when corporations create hazards for people as a way to make profit, society SHOULD have a method to stop the corporations just like it has ways to stop common criminals. Let's face it, when corporations harm people, it -IS- a criminal act.

They should not be able to hide behind their corporate barrier to avoid personal criminal liability. Investors should know that corporations which they invest in can be closed for criminal behavior and their investment totally lost.
 
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Pride is the worst because everything is tied onto pride

The LGBT promotes multiple sins. Homosexuality of course. It seems like alot of people miss the pride part of "gay pride" because they focus on the gay part, but pride is really the worst part of it

One can be gay but still be in the process of healing with the Lord, or at least be on their way to gaining power over their desires

But being gay and beating your chest about it...yeah, pride is easily the worst of the deadly sins. Greed comes from pride
 
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zephcom

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Pride is the worst because everything is tied onto pride

The LGBT promotes multiple sins. Homosexuality of course. It seems like alot of people miss the pride part of "gay pride" because they focus on the gay part, but pride is really the worst part of it

One can be gay but still be in the process of healing with the Lord, or at least be on their way to gaining power over their desires

But being gay and beating your chest about it...yeah, pride is easily the worst of the deadly sins. Greed comes from pride
Strange that you would single out the LGBT community for being prideful when there are so very many other examples including Christians who's pride in their religion is so intense they can't conceive that other religions have equal chances of being correct.
 
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com7fy8

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Banning tobacco products would be easier than alcohol because the product is both time consuming and costly to produce on the individual level.
In any case, it would be illegal, and ones might have to pay a lot more for tobacco products. But it might be less likely to have fake contents, than how people can spike drugs. But there could be fake stuff.

But if people can fool themselves and be fooled into doing drugs, they could get into this, with nicotine. Nicotine might come out as a pure product, or there might be stuff claimed to be nicotine, and this could get to be a trouble which now does not seem to be a well-known thing.

If there were no commercial legal competition, we might see something we don't see now . . . like how moonshine went strong in the absence of legal competition . . . may be . . . I don't really know. But humans can create their chaos, no matter how daringly others make laws and try to make things better.

Character is much of the problem; I mean sin's character in people is destructive and brings misery which can degrade people to look to false sources for some kind of nice feeling and happiness. They have to have the pleasure which makes them seem to feel better. This is what I understand, from experience and prayer with the Bible. I think this is a basic, which results in the greed of fossil fuel use, and people's way of going after the other stuff which does not help us. And it hamstrings people from socially doing what they could do.

And the greedy ones at the top, I consider, can be produced by the overall culture below. This could be why the ones at the bottom have not stopped the ones at the top.
 
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SkyWriting

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Greed is the cornerstone of Capitalism. Without greed, Capitalism would completely fail as an economic engine. It is greed which has resulted in some of the most abusive activities of Capitalism.

You are correct that greed is the opposite of capitalism. A better term is "Capableism" which highlights how cooperation is the cornerstone. When people pool their resources for the good of others, the boundaries of what is impossible fade. Your handful of examples illustrate that greed doesn't work.

Capableism: Dan and Peter discuss a more useful definition of capitalism
Game Changers: A 10x Conversation With Dan Sullivan, Peter Diamandis, and Joe Polish - Genius Network
 
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