LDS Greater gods and lesser gods

[withwonderingawe]

There is one point to bring up -- limitations on Jesus DURING HIS INCARNATION may no longer apply -- such as "No man but the Father knoweth that day or hour"; well -- the Glorified resurrected Son may know NOW the day and hour...

Actually I think the time is open ended, He'll come when he comes and not before.

 

[BigDaddy4]

The Father presides over the Godhead.

Which one of the infinite progressions of God the Father is the one that presides?

Jesus learned from his father, who learned from his father, who learned from his father, ....

 

[disciple1]

Greek Mythology
These lesser gods can be broadly categorized into five groups, based on either the realm of the ancient cosmos that they existed(gods of sky, sea, Underworld), on an important area of ancient Greek life (gods of love and health).
Meet the Lesser Gods of Ancient Greece:A fascinating,diverse crowd of deities

Mormonism
Jesus is greater than the Holy Spirit, which is subject unto him, but his Father is greater than he! He has said it. Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!” (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:18).
Book of Mormon Student Manual, 1989, Alma 7:10, p.74

God is the Supreme Being in the universe.

1. God the Father is greater than all (see Ephesians 4:6; John 10:29).
   
   
2. As the Supreme Being, God the Father should be the object of our love and worship (see D&C 18:40; 20:29; Joshua 22:5; Mark 12:30; D&C 4:2;Luke 4:8).
   Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual Chapter 3: God the Eternal Father

Jehovah's Witnesses
Yes. We believe in Jesus, who said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) We have faith that Jesus came to earth from heaven and gave his perfect human life as a ransom sacrifice. (Matthew 20:28) His death and resurrection make it possible for those exercising faith in him to gain everlasting life. (John 3:16) We also believe that Jesus is now ruling as King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, which will soon bring peace to the entire earth. (Revelation 11:15) However, we take Jesus at his word when he said: “The Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) So we do not worship Jesus, as we do not believe that he is Almighty God.
Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe in Jesus? | FAQ

Christadelphianism
Christadelphianism teaches the same two lies as literally every cult and false religion: it denies the deity of Jesus Christ and preaches a works-based salvation. Regarding the deity of Christ, Christadelphianism teaches that Jesus was more than a man, but less than God. According to A. Hayward, in Great News for the World, p. 41, Jesus was a created being with “strength of character to right some of the most appalling wrongs of his time.” Christadelphians teach that Jesus had a sinful nature and he, too, needed salvation from sin, that he was not pre-existent and did not come into existence until he was born in Bethlehem.
What is Christadelphianism, and what do Christadelphians believe?

United Church of God
...Other United Church of God beliefs that counter the Bible include a rejection of the Trinity (the Holy Spirit is the impersonal expression of God’s power), a false view of Christ (Jesus and God are two different “divine beings”), and a works-based salvation (water baptism and Law-keeping are required to be saved).
What is the United Church of God?

So we do not worship Jesus, as we do not believe that he is Almighty God.

I can see where you could be mistaken with a false book to study, like the book of Mormon.

John chapter 1 verse 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
verse14
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Revelation chapter 19 verse 13
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

 

[BigDaddy4]

The word worship means to bow the knee. I bow my knee to all three and recognize all three as a member of one Godhead.

Based on who's definition?

Definition of WORSHIP
the definition of worship
worship - definition of worship in English | Oxford Dictionaries

Not seeing "to bow the knee" in any of these definitions.

 

[Rescued One]

Actually I think the time is open ended, He'll come when he comes and not before.

We're not discussing the time of His return, but rather His knowledge of when it will be.

 

[Rescued One]

Introduction from the manual

"Central to our faith as Latter-day Saints is a correct understanding of God the Father. We seek to know what He has revealed of His nature throughout the ages. By learning of Him, we begin to develop the relationship with Him that Jesus described when He said, speaking of the disciples, “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us” (John 17:21)."

The whole point is to become one with him as Jesus is one with him. Jesus brings us to the Father.

Another rabbit trail.

 

[Rescued One]

So

That's revealing and sad.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Based on who's definition?

Definition of WORSHIP
the definition of worship
worship - definition of worship in English | Oxford Dictionaries

Not seeing "to bow the knee" in any of these definitions.

Sorry, I should have given a reference, Strongs Bible Concordance

proskyneō

1. to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
   
   
2. among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication"

 

[Jane_Doe]

I can see where you could be mistaken with a false book to study, like the book of Mormon.

John chapter 1 verse 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
verse14
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Revelation chapter 19 verse 13
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

FYI: the original post of this thread is a horrible misrepresentation of actual LDS beliefs. LDS believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are three different persons and ONE God through unity. You cannot honor the Son without simultaneously honoring the Father and Spirit- it's just not possible. The Father/Son/Spirit don't play games trying to outrank each other, and certainly nothing remotely like Greek gods (which essentially were hormonal teenagers with superpowers.

 

[withwonderingawe]

I can see where you could be mistaken with a false book to study, like the book of Mormon.

John chapter 1 verse 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
verse14
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Revelation chapter 19 verse 13
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

Phoebe is an ex-Mormon trying to find an argument against our concept of the Trinity. We do not believe they are three in one being but three separate individuals.

As I studied the Bible and what has become to be understood as the traditional Trinity doctrine the concept of an immaterial substances never entered my head. I was not raised on it so I didn't make the same prior assumptions about words like 'logos'/ word or spirit like a person who had been raised on it.

I went to the Strong's concordance and a few other sources and learn that originally the Greek logos meant 'to reason'. If I have a math problem I'm working out in my mine I'm logos-ing. If I am putting together a plan in my mind then I'm logos-ing, if I then express that plan in words from my mount that is my logos or reasoning.

The Greeks loved reasoning and they treated it kind of like wisdom is treated n the Bible.

Prov 1:20 ¶ Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
Luke 7: 35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

Wisdom is not a she, wisdom is something you hopefully learn.

The Greeks did this to reason/logos and over generations 'reason' took on a personality of its own as if it were a living being. It became the immovable mover of all things and 'it' was an immaterial being who reasoned all else into being.

I looked up the word logos in Strong's Concordance to see how it was used generally. I found that every single time John used logos it is used with the original intent 'to reason' given in a message and not as if logos was a person.

John 2:22 ....and they believed the scripture, and the word/logos which Jesus had said.

John 6: 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying/logos; who can hear it?

John 17 has the most signification passage

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word/logos....
8 For I have given unto them the words/ rhēma (meaning utterance) which thou gavest me; and they have received them,
14 I have given them thy word/logos ; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Logos or reason is another term for Gospel or teachings

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: ...and they have kept thy teachings
14 I have given them thy gospel ;

Never does Jesus call himself logos instead he only imparts the word/message of God.

So I, all by myself, looked at John 1:1-2 and prayed on it. I knew the writers of the Bible use a lot of imagery and play off of words like light. God is light, well God is light but he is also knowledge, he imparts his light or knowledge of truth to us. So I decided to look at this passage in the same way, John was playing off of 'the word' or message of God and Jesus and the grace his atonement brings us is that message.

" In him was life; and the life was the light of men....as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name"

That is God's logos or message to us, that is the Gospel message. and trying to be consistence I also added what Heb 1 teaches

"... therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

So this is how I came to understand John's meaning

In the beginning there was God the Father's message of hope found in the atonement, and that message is in Jesus who was with God, and Jesus/Yahweh was God and Jesus/Yahweh was in the beginning with God.

May years later I looked at the way Joseph Smith rendered it.

1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

It's very similar to how I wrote it

 

[Rescued One]

Phoebe is an ex-Mormon trying to find an argument against our concept of the Trinity. We do not believe they are three in one being but three separate individuals.

Boo hoo. Being an ex-Mormon because God brought me out doesn't mean I'm trying to find an argument against worshiping multiple gods. It means God showed me that the Bible is true.

As I studied the Bible and what has become to be understood as the traditional Trinity doctrine the concept of an immaterial substances never entered my head. I was not raised on it so I didn't make the same prior assumptions about words like 'logos'/ word or spirit like a person who had been raised on it.

I wasn't raised in a Christian home.

I went to the Strong's concordance and a few other sources and learn that originally the Greek logos meant 'to reason'. If I have a math problem I'm working out in my mine I'm logos-ing. If I am putting together a plan in my mind then I'm logos-ing, if I then express that plan in words from my mount that is my logos or reasoning.

The Greeks loved reasoning and they treated it kind of like wisdom is treated n the Bible.

Prov 1:20 ¶ Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
Luke 7: 35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

Wisdom is not a she, wisdom is something you hopefully learn.

The Greeks did this to reason/logos and over generations 'reason' took on a personality of its own as if it were a living being. It became the immovable mover of all things and 'it' was an immaterial being who reasoned all else into being.

I looked up the word logos in Strong's Concordance to see how it was used generally. I found that every single time John used logos it is used with the original intent 'to reason' given in a message and not as if logos was a person.

John 2:22 ....and they believed the scripture, and the word/logos which Jesus had said.

John 6: 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying/logos; who can hear it?

John 17 has the most signification passage

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word/logos....
8 For I have given unto them the words/ rhēma (meaning utterance) which thou gavest me; and they have received them,
14 I have given them thy word/logos ; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Logos or reason is another term for Gospel or teachings

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: ...and they have kept thy teachings
14 I have given them thy gospel ;

Never does Jesus call himself logos instead he only imparts the word/message of God.

So I, all by myself, looked at John 1:1-2 and prayed on it. I knew the writers of the Bible use a lot of imagery and play off of words like light. God is light, well God is light but he is also knowledge, he imparts his light or knowledge of truth to us. So I decided to look at this passage in the same way, John was playing off of 'the word' or message of God and Jesus and the grace his atonement brings us is that message.

" In him was life; and the life was the light of men....as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name"

That is God's logos or message to us, that is the Gospel message. and trying to be consistence I also added what Heb 1 teaches

"... therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

So this is how I came to understand John's meaning

In the beginning there was God the Father's message of hope found in the atonement, and that message is in Jesus who was with God, and Jesus/Yahweh was God and Jesus/Yahweh was in the beginning with God.

May years later I looked at the way Joseph Smith rendered it.

1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

It's very similar to how I wrote it

Following Joseph Smith is like begging for an eternity without God. I couldn't ignore the Holy Spirit in favor of men.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Boo hoo. Being an ex-Mormon because God brought me out doesn't mean I'm trying to find an argument against worshiping multiple gods. It means God showed me that the Bible is true.

You're overlooking that trintarians also believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different persons in ONE God. The between the two beliefs systems in the *how* they are ONE God, and the Trintairan answer of via shared substance is found in the Creeds, not the Bible.

Following Joseph Smith is like begging for an eternity without God. I couldn't ignore the Holy Spirit in favor of men.

And neither can I. Hence why I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

[Rescued One]

I like this person's testimony:

Click Here

 

[Jane_Doe]

I like this person's testimony:

Click Here

That's not a testimony. A testimony is about sharing your faith in God. That website link is about slandering another person's faith. HUGE difference.

 

[Rescued One]

2 Our Father Advanced and
Progressed Until He Became God

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).


President Joseph F. Smith taught: “I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions.... Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman” (Church News, 19 Sept. 1936, p. 2).

President Wilford Woodruff explained: “[God] has had his endowments a great many years ago. He has ascended to his thrones, principalities and powers in the eternities. We are his children.....We are here to fill a probation and receive an education” (Deseret News Weekly, 28 Sept. 1881, p. 546).

How does it help us to know that the basic elements of God’s life in a mortal world were the same as ours? President Brigham Young explained:

“He is our Father—the Father of our Spirits—and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are....

“...There never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through....

“It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has been a finite being” (Deseret News, 16 Nov. 1859, p. 290).
Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 152 - 153

 

[Jane_Doe]

2 Our Father Advanced and
Progressed Until He Became God

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).


President Joseph F. Smith taught: “I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions.... Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman” (Church News, 19 Sept. 1936, p. 2).

President Wilford Woodruff explained: “[God] has had his endowments a great many years ago. He has ascended to his thrones, principalities and powers in the eternities. We are his children.....We are here to fill a probation and receive an education” (Deseret News Weekly, 28 Sept. 1881, p. 546).

How does it help us to know that the basic elements of God’s life in a mortal world were the same as ours? President Brigham Young explained:

“He is our Father—the Father of our Spirits—and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are....

“...There never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through....

“It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has been a finite being” (Deseret News, 16 Nov. 1859, p. 290).
Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 152 - 153

Why in the world are you citing NEWSPAPERS in a discussion about doctrine? Cite doctrine when talking about doctrine.

 

[Rescued One]

President Joseph F. Smith said:

“It is absolutely necessary that we should come to the earth and take upon us tabernacles; because if we did not have tabernacles we could not be like God, nor like Jesus Christ. God has a tabernacle of flesh and bone.

“. . . We must go through the same ordeal in order to attain to the glory and exaltation which God designed we should enjoy with Him in the eternal worlds. In other words, we must become like Him; peradventure to sit upon thrones, to have dominion, power, and eternal increase. God designed this in the beginning. We are the children of God. . . . We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when He was passing through this, or a similar ordeal.”
Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed. [1939], p. 64

Joseph Smith, Jr., said:
“Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization anyhow. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster.”
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372; History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476

"What is the church of the devil in our day, and where is the seat of her power? ...It is all of the systems, both Christian and non-Christian, that perverted the pure and perfect gospel ...It is communism; it is Islam; it is Buddhism; it is modern Christianity in all its parts."
Bruce R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah, p.54-55

 

[Jane_Doe]

President Joseph F. Smith said:

“It is absolutely necessary that we should come to the earth and take upon us tabernacles; because if we did not have tabernacles we could not be like God, nor like Jesus Christ. God has a tabernacle of flesh and bone.

“. . . We must go through the same ordeal in order to attain to the glory and exaltation which God designed we should enjoy with Him in the eternal worlds. In other words, we must become like Him; peradventure to sit upon thrones, to have dominion, power, and eternal increase. God designed this in the beginning. We are the children of God. . . . We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when He was passing through this, or a similar ordeal.”
Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed. [1939], p. 64

Joseph Smith, Jr., said:
“Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization anyhow. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster.”

"What is the church of the devil in our day, and where is the seat of her power? ...It is all of the systems, both Christian and non-Christian, that perverted the pure and perfect gospel ...It is communism; it is Islam; it is Buddhism; it is modern Christianity in all its parts."
Bruce R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah, p.54-55

Still not an actual doctrinal statement...

 

[Rescued One]

Why in the world are you citing NEWSPAPERS in a discussion about doctrine? Cite doctrine when talking about doctrine.

Search These Commandments is not a newspaper. It is copyright 1984 by Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Search These Commandments is not a newspaper. It is copyright 1984 by Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Still not actually doctrine. We both know this Phoebe. Why do you quote it then? Are you hoping that some person not familiar with LDS doctrine won't know that?