LDS Greater gods and lesser gods

[Rescued One]

Greek Mythology
These lesser gods can be broadly categorized into five groups, based on either the realm of the ancient cosmos that they existed(gods of sky, sea, Underworld), on an important area of ancient Greek life (gods of love and health).
Meet the Lesser Gods of Ancient Greece:A fascinating,diverse crowd of deities

Mormonism
Jesus is greater than the Holy Spirit, which is subject unto him, but his Father is greater than he! He has said it. Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!” (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:18).
Book of Mormon Student Manual, 1989, Alma 7:10, p.74

God is the Supreme Being in the universe.

1. God the Father is greater than all (see Ephesians 4:6; John 10:29).
   
   
2. As the Supreme Being, God the Father should be the object of our love and worship (see D&C 18:40; 20:29; Joshua 22:5; Mark 12:30; D&C 4:2;Luke 4:8).
   Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual Chapter 3: God the Eternal Father

Jehovah's Witnesses
Yes. We believe in Jesus, who said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) We have faith that Jesus came to earth from heaven and gave his perfect human life as a ransom sacrifice. (Matthew 20:28) His death and resurrection make it possible for those exercising faith in him to gain everlasting life. (John 3:16) We also believe that Jesus is now ruling as King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, which will soon bring peace to the entire earth. (Revelation 11:15) However, we take Jesus at his word when he said: “The Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) So we do not worship Jesus, as we do not believe that he is Almighty God.
Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe in Jesus? | FAQ

Christadelphianism
Christadelphianism teaches the same two lies as literally every cult and false religion: it denies the deity of Jesus Christ and preaches a works-based salvation. Regarding the deity of Christ, Christadelphianism teaches that Jesus was more than a man, but less than God. According to A. Hayward, in Great News for the World, p. 41, Jesus was a created being with “strength of character to right some of the most appalling wrongs of his time.” Christadelphians teach that Jesus had a sinful nature and he, too, needed salvation from sin, that he was not pre-existent and did not come into existence until he was born in Bethlehem.
What is Christadelphianism, and what do Christadelphians believe?

United Church of God
...Other United Church of God beliefs that counter the Bible include a rejection of the Trinity (the Holy Spirit is the impersonal expression of God’s power), a false view of Christ (Jesus and God are two different “divine beings”), and a works-based salvation (water baptism and Law-keeping are required to be saved).
What is the United Church of God?

 

[withwonderingawe]

From the Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual Chapter 3: God the Eternal Father, which you quoted


The Father presides over the Godhead.

• “Three glorified, exalted, and perfected personages comprise the Godhead or supreme presidency of the universe. … They are: God the Father; God the Son; God the Holy Ghost. …
  
  
  
  
  “Though each God in the Godhead is a personage, separate and distinct from each of the others, yet they are ‘one God’ … , meaning that they are united as one in the attributes of perfection. For instance, each has the fulness of truth, knowledge, charity, power, justice, judgment, mercy, and faith. Accordingly they all think, act, speak, and are alike in all things; and yet they are three separate and distinct entities. Each occupies space and is and can be in but one place at one time, but each has power and influence that is everywhere present” (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 319).
  

 

[Rescued One]

From the Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual Chapter 3: God the Eternal Father, which you quoted


The Father presides over the Godhead.

• “Three glorified, exalted, and perfected personages comprise the Godhead or supreme presidency of the universe. … They are: God the Father; God the Son; God the Holy Ghost. …
  
  
  
  
  “Though each God in the Godhead is a personage, separate and distinct from each of the others, yet they are ‘one God’ … , meaning that they are united as one in the attributes of perfection. For instance, each has the fulness of truth, knowledge, charity, power, justice, judgment, mercy, and faith. Accordingly they all think, act, speak, and are alike in all things; and yet they are three separate and distinct entities. Each occupies space and is and can be in but one place at one time, but each has power and influence that is everywhere present” (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 319).

How does what you posted refute what I found in Book of Mormon Student Manual, 1989, Alma 7:10, p.74?

Jesus is greater than the Holy Spirit, which is subject unto him, but his Father is greater than he! He has said it. Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!” (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:18).

Then you have the problem of D&C 88:107.
107 And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.


D&C 88:107. The Saints Will Be Filled with God’s Glory and “Be Made Equal with Him”
The sons and daughters of God possess the potential to become like their parents.

Elder Parley P. Pratt said: “Every man who is eventually made perfect—raised from the dead and filled, or quickened, with a fulness of celestial glory—will become like them in every respect, physically and in intellect, attributes, or powers.
Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual Section 88 The Olive Leaf

To which of the three gods do you pray?

"As the Supreme Being, God the Father should be the object of our love and worship."
Why are the three gods not the objects of your love and worship?

Jesus is also a God. The Father is Supreme, but Jesus is also a member of the Godhead, and is by his calling a God. (See Heb. 1:8–12.) The Prophet Joseph stated: “I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods.” (Teachings, p. 370.)....

It seems to me, however, that as long as we are persuaded by the Spirit that the message is divine, we should not be overly concerned about the identification of the messenger.
I Have a Question - Ensign Oct. 1978 - ensign

 

[Ironhold]

And the point is?

 

[withwonderingawe]

How does what you posted refute what I found in Book of Mormon Student Manual, 1989, Alma 7:10, p.74?

Jesus is greater than the Holy Spirit, which is subject unto him, but his Father is greater than he! He has said it. Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!” (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:18).

Then you have the problem of D&C 88:107.
107 And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.


D&C 88:107. The Saints Will Be Filled with God’s Glory and “Be Made Equal with Him”
The sons and daughters of God possess the potential to become like their parents.

Elder Parley P. Pratt said: “Every man who is eventually made perfect—raised from the dead and filled, or quickened, with a fulness of celestial glory—will become like them in every respect, physically and in intellect, attributes, or powers.
Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual Section 88 The Olive Leaf

To which of the three gods do you pray?

"As the Supreme Being, God the Father should be the object of our love and worship."
Why are the three gods not the objects of your love and worship?

Jesus is also a God. The Father is Supreme, but Jesus is also a member of the Godhead, and is by his calling a God. (See Heb. 1:8–12.) The Prophet Joseph stated: “I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods.” (Teachings, p. 370.)....

It seems to me, however, that as long as we are persuaded by the Spirit that the message is divine, we should not be overly concerned about the identification of the messenger.
I Have a Question - Ensign Oct. 1978 - ensign

Your are missing the core dynamic and are looking at the word presiding with a worldly view rather than a heavenly view.

In John 13 Jesus gets own on his knee and washes the feet of his disciples, he tells them

13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another’s feet.
15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Although Jesus was the Master he severed his disciples. The Father sent the Son and the Son is not greater than the Father however the Father still serves the Son by raising him from the dead and then glorifying him.

 

[Rescued One]

Your are missing the core dynamic and are looking at the word presiding with a worldly view rather than a heavenly view.

I'm not missing the message of the Bible. The Son already had that glory before He lowered Himself to become man.

John 2
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[Rescued One]

Why are the three gods not the objects of your love and worship?

 

[withwonderingawe]

I'm not missing the message of the Bible. The Son already had that glory before He lowered Himself to become man.

John 2
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

*John 5
17 ¶ But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Because of their false tradition of believing in one God and denying the Father Son relationship they thought Jesus was saying he was equal to God, just as you are doing.

But Jesus says to them;
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..."

He was saying no I'm not equal, I can only do what the Father wants.

*John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.... For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;"

John 10
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

The Father gave Jesus the power to lift up his body in the resurrection.

*Hebrews 1
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

John 17
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

God the Father anointed Jesus God, God the Father gave him the power of life, God the Father gave Jesus his glory. He also gave him the power to judge.

*John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

John 10 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;

John 14 I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 20 :17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

I'm going to stick to what the Bible teaches God the Father is greater than God the Son.

But I also understand; Matt 23 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

In the Mormon dynamics of power the Bishop is not the commander of the flock but the shepherd, he cares for the flock. It's the differences between a dictator and a facilitator.

A good father is a facilitator of his family, he serves and provides for his family. In the same way God the Father serves and provides for us. We pray and praise and ask for blessings, he in turn blesses and teaches. He controls all power yet He is our servant because He is our Father.

The whole concept is based in love, God's love for us. Jesus loved us so much he was willing to serve us by suffering and laying down his life for us.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Why are the three gods not the objects of your love and worship?

why do you ask that rather rude question?

 

[Rescued One]

The question isn't the least bit rude. Why do Mormons single out the Father for worship?

 

[withwonderingawe]

The question isn't the least bit rude. Why do Mormons single out the Father for worship?

The word worship means to bow the knee. I bow my knee to all three and recognize all three as a member of one Godhead.

 

[Rescued One]

The word worship means to bow the knee. I bow my knee to all three and recognize all three as a member of one Godhead.

Now you are equivocating. Your lesson manuals tell you that the Father is supreme and that he is the one you worship. If you are worshiping all three you are polytheistic.

 

[Anto9us]

Rom 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

According to the above, even Natural Theology -- observance of the Creator's physical universe -- displays His eternal power and Godhead

Sometimes I don't think we are as far from each others' thought as we think

 

[withwonderingawe]

Now you are equivocating. Your lesson manuals tell you that the Father is supreme and that he is the one you worship. If you are worshiping all three you are polytheistic.

This is what happens when you cheery pick your quotes;

If you will turn the pages there is a whole lesson on Jesus and the following quotes are from Neal A Maxwell, Conference Oct 1981

“We can trust, worship, and even adore Him without any reservation! As the only Perfect Person to sojourn on this planet, there is none like Him! (See Isa. 46:9.)

“In intelligence and performance, He far surpasses the individual and the composite capacities andachievements of all who have lived, live now, and will yet live! (See Abr. 3:19.)

“He rejoices in our genuine goodness and achievement, but any assessment of where we stand in relation to Him tells us that we do not stand at all! We kneel!” (Neal A. Maxwell, in Conference Report, Oct. 1981, 9; or Ensign, Nov. 1981, 8).

In the next lesson they teach of they Holy Ghost

“He [the Holy Ghost] is the Comforter, Testator, Revelator, Sanctifier, Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit of Promise, Spirit of Truth, Spirit of the Lord, and Messenger of the Father and the Son, and his companionship is the greatest gift that mortal man can enjoy. His mission is to perform all of the functions appertaining to the various name-titles which he bears. Because he is a Spirit Personage, he has power—according to the eternal laws ordained by the Father—to perform essential and unique functions for men. In this dispensation, at least, nothing has been revealed as to his origin or destiny; expressions on these matters are both speculative and fruitless” (Bruce R. McConkie,)

 

[Anto9us]

There is one point to bring up -- limitations on Jesus DURING HIS INCARNATION may no longer apply -- such as "No man but the Father knoweth that day or hour"; well -- the Glorified resurrected Son may know NOW the day and hour...

 

[Rescued One]

This is what happens when you cheery pick your quotes;

If you will turn the pages there is a whole lesson on Jesus and the following quotes are from Neal A Maxwell, Conference Oct 1981

“We can trust, worship, and even adore Him without any reservation! As the only Perfect Person to sojourn on this planet, there is none like Him! (See Isa. 46:9.)

“In intelligence and performance, He far surpasses the individual and the composite capacities andachievements of all who have lived, live now, and will yet live! (See Abr. 3:19.)

“He rejoices in our genuine goodness and achievement, but any assessment of where we stand in relation to Him tells us that we do not stand at all! We kneel!” (Neal A. Maxwell, in Conference Report, Oct. 1981, 9; or Ensign, Nov. 1981, 8).

In the next lesson they teach of they Holy Ghost

“He [the Holy Ghost] is the Comforter, Testator, Revelator, Sanctifier, Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit of Promise, Spirit of Truth, Spirit of the Lord, and Messenger of the Father and the Son, and his companionship is the greatest gift that mortal man can enjoy. His mission is to perform all of the functions appertaining to the various name-titles which he bears. Because he is a Spirit Personage, he has power—according to the eternal laws ordained by the Father—to perform essential and unique functions for men. In this dispensation, at least, nothing has been revealed as to his origin or destiny; expressions on these matters are both speculative and fruitless” (Bruce R. McConkie,)

Like I said, and you ignore, this makes your beliefs polytheistic.

 

[Rescued One]

oops

 

[Rescued One]

This is what happens when you cheery pick your quotes;

If you will turn the pages there is a whole lesson on Jesus and the following quotes are from Neal A Maxwell, Conference Oct 1981

“We can trust, worship, and even adore Him without any reservation! As the only Perfect Person to sojourn on this planet, there is none like Him! (See Isa. 46:9.)

He disagrees with the previous lesson in the manual that was approved by the LDS church. That is what I ran into about Mormonism all the time.

• • “Our relationship with the Father is supreme, paramount, and preeminent over all others. He is the God we worship.
  • (Bruce R. McConkie, “Our Relationship with the Lord,” in Brigham Young University 1981–82 Fireside and Devotional Speeches, 101).
  • Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual Chapter 3: God the Eternal Father

I'm pointing out that the manual says, "He is the God we worship," not he is one of the gods we worship. We don't need more rabbit trails. Or will you continue to insist that Mormons are polytheistic in their worship as well as their beliefs?

 

[withwonderingawe]

Like I said, and you ignore, this makes your beliefs polytheistic.

So

 

[withwonderingawe]

He disagrees with the previous lesson in the manual that was approved by the LDS church. That is what I ran into about Mormonism all the time.

• • “Our relationship with the Father is supreme, paramount, and preeminent over all others. He is the God we worship.
  • (Bruce R. McConkie, “Our Relationship with the Lord,” in Brigham Young University 1981–82 Fireside and Devotional Speeches, 101).
  • Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual Chapter 3: God the Eternal Father

I'm pointing out that the manual says, "He is the God we worship," not he is one of the gods we worship. We don't need more rabbit trails. Or will you continue to insist that Mormons are polytheistic in their worship as well as their beliefs?

Introduction from the manual

"Central to our faith as Latter-day Saints is a correct understanding of God the Father. We seek to know what He has revealed of His nature throughout the ages. By learning of Him, we begin to develop the relationship with Him that Jesus described when He said, speaking of the disciples, “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us” (John 17:21)."

The whole point is to become one with him as Jesus is one with him. Jesus brings us to the Father.