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Featured Grafted In

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by HARK!, Nov 19, 2020 at 10:40 PM.

  1. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

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    Was not my point ... you don't keep the law to keep your relationship you keep the law out of your relationship this is the lesson of Jacob and his wives.
     
  2. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

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    I'm not looking for in general statements I'm looking for specific ... from the OT.
     
  3. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Yahshua made a general statement. Perhaps we should look to his example for the specifics.
     
  4. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps after we get a specific from the OT ...
     
  5. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Yahshua was YHWH's word in the flesh.


    (CLV) 2Ti 3:16
    All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,

    What is righteousness?

    Definition of righteous

    1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
    Definition of RIGHTEOUS

    (CLV) 1Jn 3:7
    Little children, let no one be deceiving you. He who is doing righteousness is just, according as He is just.
     
  6. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

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    Try to keep to just the OT in refernce to those scriptures in Matthew you had quoted.
     
  7. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Incorrect!

    Ephesians 2:11-20
    King James Version

    11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

    12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

    13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

    14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

    15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

    17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

    18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

    19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


    We are citizens of the household of god! We have not become some kind of "spiritual Jew" A spiritual Jew is a Jew who is saved. A spiritual Gentile is a gentile who is saved and we become one body in christ, not some new fandangled Israel.

    Romans 11
    King James Version

    11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

    2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

    3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

    4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

    5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


    Gentiles are not part of that remnant

    Romans 11:25-29
    King James Version

    25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

    29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


    .
    Romans 11
    King James Version

    11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

    2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

    3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

    4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

    5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    The promises god made to Israel, still belong to the Jew!

    God is even going to make all of Israel (in the tribulation) accept Jesus as Messiah.

    Ezekiel 20:33-38
    King James Version

    33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

    34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

    35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

    36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

    37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

    38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

    All of Israel will be saved! Of course it is only 1/3 that entered into teh tribulation period:

    Zechariah 13:8-9
    King James Version

    8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

    9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

    And it will happen when God empowers the provision of the New Covenant with both the houses of Israel and Judah:

    Jeremiah 31:31-34
    King James Version

    31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    This New Covenant God makes wioth all Israel will go into effect as it is written "after those days".
     
  8. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Jesus came for everyone.
    Worshipped by Gentiles at his birth (Magi), declared by Simeon to be a light to the Gentiles, Luke 2:32, revealed to a Samaritan woman that he was the Messiah, John 4:27, healed a Samaritan, Luke 17:16, a Roman centurion's servant, Luke 7:2-8 and a Syro-Phoenician woman's daughter, Luke 7:24-30; crucified by Romans.

    What are you grafted into?
    I am in Jesus, the True Vine, who said that his followers are the branches.
    Jesus taught us to remain in him, and Paul taught many time that believers are in Christ.

    Yahweh's NEW Covenant, sealed by the blood of Jesus, is for everybody; Matthew 26:28, Mark 10:45, John 6:40, John 6:29, John 1:12.
     
  9. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Yes, it's ONE of the meanings; not the only one.
    Unless you want to try to prove that the Christian church was in the wilderness having been rescued from Egypt.
     
  10. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Repeating what you said before doesn't make it correct.
    The people who were wandering in the wilderness were God's people whom he had rescued, called out of, Egypt. So yes, they were an ecclesia; a gathering that had been summoned forth.

    Not the same as the Christian church.
    That is what the word means. The ancient Greeks had groups called ecclesia; they weren't the church either.
     
  11. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    No, I mean go backwards.

    I understand, from other threads also, that you believe we are saved by Christ, who kept the law perfectly, and are now Abraham's children and part of Israel. That being so, you want everyone here to realise that we are now Israel and have to keep the commandments and feast days given to Israel at Sinai.

    That's going backwards. That's saying "now that you have been saved by Christ and are one of God's people, look at, and start obeying, all the commands that he once gave to his people" - which, incidentally, they were totally incapable of keeping. They broke his covenant many times.
     
  12. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    It is God's will that we come to Jesus and receive eternal life, John 6:40.
    The work of God is that we believe in the One that he sent, John 6:29 - the One who never said "obey the Jewish law and you will have eternal life."
     
  13. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    No, it's a statement of fact; he never said it.

    John 1:12 - to everyone who believed in him he gave the right to become children of God.
    What, from this verse do people have to do to become children of God; believe in Jesus, or keep the law?
    Romans 8:12-17 - we have an obligation, but it is not to live according to our sinful nature. If we have the Spirit we will put to death the misdeeds of the body and live. The Spirit himself will testify that we are God's children.
    How, according to these verses will the Spirit assure us that we are children of God; if we put to death the misdeeds of the body and receive the life that the Spirit gives; or if we keep the law?
     
  14. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    There is only one house now; and there is only one King for those who are in covenant with YHWH.

    (CLV) Jn 12:13
    got fronds of palms and came out to meet Him. And they clamored, saying, "Hosanna! Blessed is He Who is coming in the name of the Lord!" and "The King of Israel!"

    Notice that those who knew him for who he was, didn't call him the King of Yahuda; even thought many of them were born Yahudim.
     
  15. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    Gentiles weren’t grafted into the new covenant with Israel, until Jesus died and put the new covenant into effect.
     
  16. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    Does it make you holy?
     
  17. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Now you are just straining credulity with that Israel/Jahuda argument. for the 2 tribes were and still are part of the 12 tribes of Israel! With your avatar you should know that.

    and I am not arguing about teh church age- for both Jew and gentile are one new man! But teh church age will end and god will fuflill His promises to teh nation that survives just as SCripture declares and give them their long awaited Kingdom on earth with Jesus as king!
     
  18. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    YHWH himself makes a distinction. I don't believe that YHWH strains credulity.

    (CLV) Jer 31:31
    Behold, the days are coming, averring is Yahweh, when I will contract a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

    Notice two houses.

    (CLV) Jer 31:32
    Not like the covenant which I contracted with their fathers in the day I held fast onto their hand to bring them forth from the land of Egypt, which covenant of Mine they themselves annulled while I was Possessor over them, averring is Yahweh.

    (CLV) Jer 31:33
    For this is the covenant which I shall contract with the house of Israel after those days, averring is Yahweh: I will put My law (his Torah) within them, And I shall write it on their heart; (his Torah) I will become their Elohim, And they shall become My people.

    Notice that there is no division in the renewed covenant. Israel started out as one before some disregarded YHWH's Torah. It was YHWH's intent for Israel to be one; but they were disobedient for lack of faith. In the renewed covenant, those are faithful, with be united as one with the father, through Yahshua.
     
  19. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    I look at it the opposite way. Those who are "holy" (dedicated) to YHWH, dedicate their lives to doing his will. It's not doing his will that makes us dedicated. It's our dedication, love, and trust in him that brings obedience.
     
  20. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Regardless of the red herring, I trust Yahshua at his word.

    (CLV) Mt 15:24
    Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    What I said, mirrors what Yahshua said. This should not be ignored.
     
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