Gracepointe Church in Nashville says the Bible is not the word of God

[Direct Driver]

Judgments don't begin until Judgment Day.
You really have to ignore God to not be good enough for Jesus.

I will not judge people, but I'll certainly judge actions, and this sort of judgement is involved in choosing a wife, a car or a church.

 

[Butterball1]

The Church is the body of believers. It has no building or title.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Acts 10:43
To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

John 3:16-17
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

1 John 5:1
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

I agree that the church is not a physical building, but the church is made up of people who have obeyed the gospel of Christ. The church has no proper name, so I refer to it as the 'church of Christ' which simply shows ownership, that Christ is the owner of His church.
Ephesians 4:4-5 there is one church that goes by one faith. Has anyone ever asked you the question "what faith are you?"? That question implies there are many different faithS and they want to know which faith did you choose for yourself. It's as if there is a "buffet of faithS" and each person goes thru the buffet line choosing what faith they like that fits them while rejecting the others they do not like. Where did such ideas come from? We know such an idea is not found in the Bible, so where did it come from?

 

[Butterball1]

Thanks for watching the video and giving your report on it. This is much better than the blanket dismissal I have seen so many other posters use on this topic.

I haven't viewed this video. Thanks for the link. I need to watch it.

I would question you on a couple of points. When they say they reject doctrine, what doctrine are they referring to? Are there no doctrines that you disagree with? Do you agree with the doctrine of transubstantiation? How about infant baptism? Do you agree with the doctrine of the Rapture of the church? (or choose one)

Also, in the story of the woman caught in adultery, I see Jesus as being very tolerant. Otherwise, he should have thrown the first stone. And what about his encounter with Zacchaeus? Jesus was even criticized for his inclusion. (a friend of sinners)

Since doctrine means teachings, they reject teachings in the Bible they seem to not like. They appear to not like the teachings that condemn sexual perversions.

I do not agree with the transubstantiation. I participate in a thread about this not long ago, here is a link to that thread, see my post #60 in this thread to see what I beleive on that subject:
Eat the Bread of Life and Not Die - John 6:50

The context of the woman taken in adultery is under the OT law, both the man and the woman were to be taken before elders/judges of the city to determine guilt and to pass sentence. But this had not been done in John 8. These people were trying to trick Jesus and get Jesus to condemn the woman thereby Christ would break the law (John 8:5-6) of course Christ knew better thus He said "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." Jesus did not break the law by condemning her for the law had not benn followed yet still judged her telling her to go and send no more.

I do not agree with infant baptism and one reason being I do not agree with the idea of original sin that both Catholics and Protestants do believe.

I do not agree with premilliennialism in any of its forms.

Jesus for certain went among sinners but not to engage with them in their sins but to save them from their sins, commanding them to repent.

 

[SkyWriting]

I will not judge people, but I'll certainly judge actions, and this sort of judgement is involved in choosing a wife, a car or a church.

Jesus didn't give permission to judge actions either.

What Does the Bible Say About Judging Others?

 

[Direct Driver]

Jesus didn't give permission to judge actions either.

Oh yes, he did. What does the Bible mean that we are not to judge others? | GotQuestions.org

 

[SkyWriting]

It was in the beginning that man and woman would join as one flesh. This is how God sanctioned marriage.

24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Can a man be married and live with his parents?
Can a woman live at home and have a husband move in?
Are women not allowed to leave their parents?
Are widows not allowed to remarry?
Can people get married outside of a church?
Can a church leader have a family?
Can an orphan get married?
Can an orphan get married to a widow?
Can a pastor get married?

What I'm thinking is your passage is an observation,
rather than a commandment.

 

[Butterball1]

I think the "one" church is the body of the believers in Christ. I see that as "Christianity". I see all the different "Christian" churches as falling into one of two groups: Part of the congregation of believers in Christ - i.e. part of the "Church" - or not. All those congregations out there are just a part of the church attempting to worship and follow God in their notoriously imperfect human way. It's what we do.

Thank GOD for His grace or we'd all be doomed.

I do not see it that way nor find such an idea in the Bible. There are 1000's of religious groups that have no common orgins or beliefs and contradictions rule the day when it comes to those beliefs (don't have to go no further than this forum to see it). And I am not talking about small or minor disagreements or contradictions but major, mutually exclusive type contradictions which God did not create. God is not the Author of confusion but the Author of truth (John 17:17) and the essence of truth is by its nature it is very narrow and never contradicts itself. So it is IMPOSSIBLE for two groups, or two people, to contradict each other and both be correct Amos 3:3. Both could be wrong but no way for both to be correct. Therefore one cannot be doctrinally wrong yet still possess truth.

All these various groups and contradictions is a reason, maybe a main reason, as to why most of this country rejects orgainzed religion as a whole, even among my own relatives. One of their positions is this: "who are these so called Christians telling me I am lost and going to helll when those hyprocrites cannot even agree among themselves as to what is right." Admittedly it is a very valid argument, so much so denominationlism cannot provide a logical, Bible based answer for it without digging the deep hole it's already in even deeper. If all Christianity is is a lot of groups all contradicting each other, (major mutually exclusive type contradictions) then leave me out, I want nothing to do with it.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Can a man be married and live with his parents?
Can a woman live at home and have a husband move in?
Are women not allowed to leave their parents?
Are widows not allowed to remarry?
Can people get married outside of a church?
Can a church leader have a family?
Can an orphan get married?
Can an orphan get married to a widow?
Can a pastor get married?

What I'm thinking is your passage is an observation,
rather than a commandment.

So I gather your marriage is not God sanctioned?

 

[SkyWriting]

So I gather your marriage is not God sanctioned?

That's possible my wife and I are still living with my parents and we've not had intercourse.

If you send me a camera, I'll set up a webcam for you in the bedroom.


24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

 

[Leaf473]

Dunno, I'm tryng to find the Scripture where it says the truths of God change from day to day,

Assuming you're being ironic, I agree with you, there aren't any scriptures that talk about God's truth changing.

The very early church had living apostles. Do we have those today? Some say yes, others say no.

If we don't have apostles today, then we cannot duplicate the life of the very early church. Like, Corinth could ask Paul questions and he could write back with answers. If we can't do that today, we have to go with the answers already given. But since we usually don't know the questions, there can be differences in the conclusions people draw.

So God's truth doesn't change, but the church does have to adapt a new situations, like there not being apostles around to ask, if one believes they aren't around.

 

[SkyWriting]

So I gather your marriage is not God sanctioned?

Are you confident that you are qualified to judge?

 

[Direct Driver]

I do not see it that way nor find such an idea in the Bible. There are 1000's of religious groups that have no common orgins or beliefs and contradictions rule the day when it comes to those beliefs (don't have to go no further than this forum to see it). And I am not talking about small or minor disagreements or contradictions but major, mutually exclusive type contradictions which God did not create. God is not the Author of confusion but the Author of truth (John 17:17) and the essence of truth is by its nature it is very narrow and never contradicts itself. So it is IMPOSSIBLE for two groups, or two people, to contradict each other and both be correct Amos 3:3. Both could be wrong but no way for both to be correct. Therefore one cannot be doctrinally wrong yet still possess truth.

All these various groups and contradictions is a reason, maybe a main reason, as to why most of this country rejects orgainzed religion as a whole, even among my own relatives. One of their positions is this: "who are these so called Christians telling me I am lost and going to helll when those hyprocrites cannot even agree among themselves as to what is right." Admittedly it is a very valid argument, so much so denominationlism cannot provide a logical, Bible based answer for it without digging the deep hole it's already in even deeper. If all Christianity is is a lot of groups all contradicting each other, (major mutually exclusive type contradictions) then leave me out, I want nothing to do with it.

People can be very judgmental - especially when viewing something from the outside.

 

[Direct Driver]

That's possible my wife and I are still living with my parents and we've not had intercourse.

If you send me a camera, I'll set up a webcam for you in the bedroom.

There is no way my wife and I could have done that, and we were 43 when we met - that is, live with our parents OR remained celibate.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Are you confident that you are qualified to judge?

Thank you for engaging.

 

[The Liturgist]

Here’s the trajectory your church will follow once it's gone Woke A very unsettling article about Gracepointe Church in Nashville which is now outright denying the Bible as the word of God. 2 Timothy 4:3 is being lived out before our very eyes.

The vast majority of mainline Protestant churches in the US have at least some parishes which spew that blasphemy, and indeed actual bishops of the Episcopal Church going back to James Pike in the 1960s and more recently including John Shelby Spong and Katharine Jefferts-Schiorri have made statements even more heretical (although the average Episcopalian church in many parts of the US is still more likely than not to preach the Gospel)l unfortunately this is not the case with the United Church of Christ. Boston was a city full of Congregational churches in 1750, but by 1800, about half had become Libertarian, and today, only the one in my avatar, the Park Street Church, can still be regarded as completely trustworthy. There are about 75 United Church of Christ churches which have also declared an intent to preach the Gospel, but unfortunately that is small given the total size of the denomination, although it is shrinking fast.

What seems to have set people off in this case was this was not a mainline Protestant church but an evangelical non-denominational megachurch, and I suspect that some people wrongly suppose those are somehow more trustworthy. I maintain that what you really want is a denomination that has standards, and either, if it follows Congregational polity, will dismiss from its membership parishes which fail to keep those standards, like the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, the CCCC (conservative Congregationalists like Park Street Church) or SBC (formerly the Southern Baptist Convention, but I think they are changing what the initials stand for), or the Calvary Chapel or SDA*, or if it follows an Episcopal or Presbyterian policy, will act to remove clergy who are malfeasant (Anglican Church of North America, Presbyterian Church of America, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, North American Lutheran Church, Roman Catholic Church, Assyrian Church of the East, Ancient Church of the East)

*Some members might be surprised to see me include the SDA on such a list, but as I have said repeatedly I am not anti-Adventist, and I have confidence the SDA is unlikely to endorse, for example, homosexual marriage; my only difficulty in communication has been with some members who are Sabbatarian extremists who unlike the SDA as a denomination do not seem interested in fellowship with members of other expressions of Christianity, even those who have a well defined theology of the Sabbath.

 

[SkyWriting]

Thank you for engaging.

That was my conclusion as well.

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

John 7:24
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

James 4:12
There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Romans 2:1-3
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.


John 8:7
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Matthew 7:1-2
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

 

[SkyWriting]

Assuming you're being ironic, I agree with you, there aren't any scriptures that talk about God's truth changing.

God does explain that Local Law is to be followed as it is God's will for man.
And we do change Government, so we do change God's will for man.

For example, we both allow women to vote and later allowed black people to vote.
So the government does change and we can imagine that blacks should have been allowed to vote as well. People DID argue that God did not want to have women voting.

 

[Butterball1]

People can be very judgmental - especially when viewing something from the outside.

They are not being judgmental but pointing out the obvious facts about all the contradictions.

 

[SkyWriting]

They are not being judgmental but pointing out the obvious facts about all the contradictions.

Pointing is not allowed, required, or requested. Just sayin.

 

[Davy]

No connection there. Anybody could say that in any system.

I'd say Jesus promotes mostly socialistic programs. And then add on The Father and Son and you have a socialistic Monarchy. So there you go. The ideal Christian government.

Capitalism means free enterprise. And here's a little lesson...

The first year of the early settlers at Jamestown decided to keep everything in common. Everyone received the same, no matter how hard one worked, or how less. There was starvation that first year because that kind of policy promotes laziness, since if you worked harder than others it was taken away from you and given to someone else, thus no incentive to work hard. So some worked, others didn't.

The next year that policy changed at Jamestown to the Christian principle that if you didn't work, you didn't eat (2 Thessalonians 3:10). And whatever one produced they got to keep, trade, or sell. That next year there was an abundance. That is what true capitalism is about, free enterprise to be able reap the fruits of one's own labor.