Grace Community Church Defies Court With Packed Sunday Service

Tone

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The only potential discredit I see on John MacArthur right now is the lack of evidence that he tried to work things out with local authorities first. If it's just "California is anti-God, I'm going to stick it to them," then that is not in line with Paul's teaching. There needs to be evidence that they REALLY WERE trying to shut down the church under the pretext of Covid. We've got churches all around the world reaching compromises with the local authorities. Why is Grace not?


The city all of a sudden stopped renting out a parking lot to Grace, after 30+ years...why?

The parking lot is across a street and about a 1/2 block from the actual church building.
 
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Tone

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The city all of a sudden stopped renting out a parking lot to Grace, after 30+ years...why?

The parking lot is across a street and about a 1/2 block from the actual church building.

Oh, this was after the church kept gathering in the building. I thought the church was meeting in parking lot and they shut it down on them.
 
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The city all of a sudden stopped renting out a parking lot to Grace, after 30+ years...why?

The parking lot is across a street and about a 1/2 block from the actual church building.
It is a government parking lot they can stop leasing it for any reason they want.
 
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Well, I do believe that some states and localities have gone beyond clinical necessity in the measures they've imposed. There isn't a clinical case for curtailing parking lot tailgate services, for instances. That kind of thing is a case of governmental overreach. Even Dr Fauci has been seen at open-air sports events with his mask below his chin.

How a congregation should respond to that overreach is, however, a separate issue. We should not respond to provocation as the world would respond to provocation.
That is what gets me. We are to obey the civil authorities. A church can take proper legal steps and then file a lawsuit if it thinks it is being wronged. Here the church is ignoring the law.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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So? Everyone does.

I'm not a calvinist but I don't see how this enters the conversation..

It enters into the conversation because a wrong belief will manifest itself with bad fruit in some way.
 
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Whoa, it looks like you already had all this locked n loaded to go!

Are you watching this man as an "Antichrist" candidate?



Now I'm gonna play like all the scientists and politicians and ask for the numbers on this.

*Any cases out of this gathering?

**Any increase in the San Fernando Valley?

I have no idea of what you are talking about. Please clarify.

Do you believe there is no risk of getting the virus by huddling up together without masks? Do you want to visit all the tons of Covid 19 patients in hospitals and then take off your mask and tell them to cough on you? Would you not feel safer with a mask if you ran into someone in who you knew had Covid? What about the social distancing thing? Would you want to be closer to a Covid person or farther away? Think man. Would you have courage to visit all the hospitals to see if it is all a hoax or the numbers are inflated?
 
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Do you believe there is no risk of getting the virus by huddling up together without masks? Do you want to visit all the tons of Covid 19 patients in hospitals and then take off your mask and tell them to cough on you? Would you not feel safer with a mask if you ran into someone in who you knew had Covid? What about the social distancing thing? Would you want to be closer to a Covid person or farther away? Think man. Would you have courage to visit all the hospitals to see if it is all a hoax or the numbers are inflated?

The head of the CDC today commented on the importance of wearing masks.

CDC head says masks may be better than coronavirus vaccine, implores people to wear them
 
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NotreDame

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It can be a large band too.

I believe it says something about them getting together daily.

Do you know?

Which highlights the "authorities" double standard. Keep 100 man dorms open, but close the churches, huh.

State specifically what you believe is the “double standard.”
 
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NotreDame

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Remember, the real authority is supposed to be the constitution.

Under God, of course.

Yes, and the Supreme Court decision in Employment Division v Smith, which interpreted the Free Exercise of Religion Clause and is a landmark case, expressed a rationale justifying these restrictions, although they burden religion.
 
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Do you know how large that church is?

It's a pretty big building, plenty of room to social distance.

* Not only that, they were meeting in the parking lot, before the city cut them off.

You do realize there is considerable epidemiological evidence that A.) at a certain size of B) people C.) inside for D.) some amount of time, then social distancing is no longer efficacious and/or its efficacy is substantially reduced, and risk of infection rises. This is especially true where there is signing, shouting, a lot of taking, like a church setting.
 
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And here I always hear that California is sooo liberal and when one conservative church stands up, they are attacked.

Not because they are conservative, but because their conduct is reckless and misguided, and they are using their religion as a ruse for doing so.
 
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Now I'm gonna play like all the scientists and politicians and ask for the numbers on this.

*Any cases out of this gathering?

**Any increase in the San Fernando Valley?

That’s the point!!! To preclude gatherings that have an elevated risk of producing those numbers. It doesn’t make sense to sit around and wait for the numbers to appear, followed by the deaths, before deciding to act. How well did that work out in Florida, Texas, and Arizona? Not well.

The fact they’ve ostensibly escaped any confirmed positives as a result of their conduct doesn’t render their activity any less risky. Borrowing your logic, why preclude John from driving while intoxicated? After all, he’s been driving drunk the last several times and what harm has come from it?

That’s stunning logic you have there.
 
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Tone

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Tone

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You do realize there is considerable epidemiological evidence that A.) at a certain size of B) people C.) inside for D.) some amount of time, then social distancing is no longer efficacious and/or its efficacy is substantially reduced, and risk of infection rises. This is especially true where there is signing, shouting, a lot of taking, like a church setting.

See my post #115
 
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renniks

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Not because they are conservative, but because their conduct is reckless and misguided, and they are using their religion as a ruse for doing so.
So you are against religious liberties?
Such as Muslims being allowed to wear berkas to work for example?
Seems like a slippery slope..
 
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Tone

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Yes, and the Supreme Court decision in Employment Division v Smith, which interpreted the Free Exercise of Religion Clause and is a landmark case, expressed a rationale justifying these restrictions, although they burden religion.

What about the right to assemble?

*You do know Grace is fighting this in a court battle right?
 
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Tone

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Do you know

Acts 2:46
"And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,"

State specifically what you believe is the “double standard.”

Keeping one group of people at risk for the money, and demanding another group of people eliminate the risk, because...why?

Do they really believe this one church will cause a spike in cases and/or deaths?
 
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