Grace Community Church Defies Court With Packed Sunday Service

[Tone]

I think the thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that these people that are meeting are doing it voluntarily and they are aware of the risks involved and have simply put it in Abba's Capable Hands, as believers.

It's not like they are going into places where there are others who are fearful and who wouldn't voluntarily meet anywhere for any reason, or would they?

 

[NotreDame]

This reminds me of a saying I once heard, "Everyone dies of heart failure."

Yes, a “saying,” there’s a reason it is labeled as a “saying.” The “saying” does not inform anyone of “beefed up”’covid deaths, or “beefed up” deaths from heart failure.

It is interesting because experience tells me, “sayings” have common appeal, but at times when properly investigated and scrutinized, no basis in reality.

 

[NotreDame]

I think the thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that these people that are meeting are doing it voluntarily and they are aware of the risks involved and have simply put it in Abba's Capable Hands, as believers.

It's not like they are going into places where there are others who are fearful and who wouldn't voluntarily meet anywhere for any reason, or would they?

And how exactly is that a mitigator in the context of a highly infectious virus that has killed over 195,000 Americans in 7 months?

A number achieved, by the way, in spite of lockdowns, continued lock downs, and other mitigation efforts.

 

[Tone]

And how exactly is that a mitigator in the context of a highly infectious virus that has killed over 195,000 Americans in 7 months?

A number achieved, by the way, in spite of lockdowns, continued lock downs, and other mitigation efforts.

I take it you're not a believer? (I'm on a phone so I can't see all your info.)

 

[NotreDame]

I take it you're not a believer? (I'm on a phone so I can't see all your info.)

I’m very much a believer. Raised in a Pentacostal church while educated in a Catholic school system.


But none of that religious history about myself tells me Christians have any Biblical obligation to meet in the large numbers they desire, as this church has, in the midst of a pandemic that is precipitated by a highly infectious virus, with a death toll over 195,000, where the data shows convincingly such congregating has a high risk of a super spreading event and has been documented to do so elsewhere.

It’s interesting not one Christian can cite to any verse from the Bible to support the church’s “action” in this context. Ostensibly, this is a few Christians twisting scripture to justify defiance, where defiance isn’t Biblically justified.

This isn’t some 21st century equivalent to King Darius’ edict. Nobody is being told they cannot worship or pray at all, and if they do, they’ll be fed to the lions in the LA zoo. This pastor and his church are not a conglomeration of Shadrachs, Meshachs, and Abednego, where they’re being asked to worship a gold statue of Newsom, or they’ll be air dropped into the fires raging across Cali. But their theatrics certainly have them behaving in such a manner.

There’s a great line from the movie “Martin Luther,” and it is relevant to these times. The setting is Luther has begun denouncing the false doctrine and practices of the Catholic Church. A teacher comments upon the necessity of the institution. Luther disagrees, saying, “Salvation can be found outside the Catholic Church, but not outside of Christ.”

Church is not necessarily hundreds packed into a building for worship. If it were, then the early Christians, who gathered in smaller numbers in homes, apparently we’re misguided. After all, they were without modern day type edifices of brick and mortar, capable of holding hundreds. Church isn’t a building at all, and neither is it some X number of people meeting in some designated place. That can be church but is not necessary for church. Church is as simple and small as a family worshipping God in their home, or a small band of believers doing so. Or church is a mix of worship at home, online, or outside.

 

[Archivist]

I think the thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that these people that are meeting are doing it voluntarily and they are aware of the risks involved and have simply put it in Abba's Capable Hands, as believers.

It's not like they are going into places where there are others who are fearful and who wouldn't voluntarily meet anywhere for any reason, or would they?

So if they get COVID and pass it on to others, I’m sure those who get it won’t object since this was voluntary. We are owe it to others to wear masks and distance and take other precautions to avoid passing COVID on. These folks are going to church, then they are going shopping, then getting the lunch or dinner, etc.

 

[Tone]

So if they get COVID and pass it on to others, I’m sure those who get it won’t object since this was voluntary. We are owe it to others to wear masks and distance and take other precautions to avoid passing COVID on. These folks are going to church, then they are going shopping, then getting the lunch or dinner, etc.

Well, if they met like the early church did in the first place, maybe they would be considered one household, which wouldn't need to social distance, huh.

 

[Tone]

But none of that religious history about myself tells me Christians have any Biblical obligation to meet in the large numbers they desire

I believe it says something about them getting together daily.

Church is not necessarily hundreds packed into a building for worship

It is if you're in jail.

Which highlights the "authorities" double standard. Keep 100 man dorms open, but close the churches, huh.

Church is as simple and small as a family worshipping God in their home, or a small band of believers doing so.

It can be a large band too.

 

[Tone]

Remember, the real authority is supposed to be the constitution.

Under God, of course.

 

[grasping the after wind]

There's a reason why the Antichrist is called the man of LAWLESSNESS .

And who is it that is being lawless? A person going to a church service or a rioter? A government ignoring its own Constitutional limits or citizens asserting their Constitutional rights? If the law does not allow a governor to dictate to people what they can put on their face, then is that not a governor being lawless to dictate to people what they must put on their face? If the Constitution strictly prohibits government interference with the practice of religion then is not telling churches they cannot practice their religion lawlessness?

There is a difference between being lawless and being unwise.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, if they met like the early church did in the first place, maybe they would be considered one household, which wouldn't need to social distance, huh.

If you are referring to Pentecost in Acts chapter 2, there was no virus going around at that time with the government warning people to not to congregate in large groups to protect lives. I am a believer in Jesus Christ, and I believe in following Him faithfully, and I think it is dumb for people to gather in large groups at this time because it is unloving towards your fellow brothers and sisters because one is helping to spread the virus to not only the congregation (God's people), but one is spread it to others in the city, and then another city, and then another, and another, and another, and another. Good job! Way to go in loving your neighbor! One just killed them without a care in the world. It's subtle murder. Who cares about the old people who are at a higher risk, right? Maybe it is a lie. Maybe all the governments of the world are running a psych ops program to deceive the people. Maybe they are fudging the numbers. Maybe the deaths are faked. But even if such were the case (Which it is not), it does not hurt our worship of God and fellowship if we respect the government requirements during this time (as they currently stand). We are asked to wear a face mask above the nose, and not just over the mouth. We are asked to keep 6 feet away. We are asked to not gather in large groups. We are asked to wash our hands and not touch our eyes, nose, and mouth. In fact, if we are disobeying the government and it does not conflict with God's laws, we are actually disobeying God (See: Romans 13:1-7). So it is important that we do everything we can that the government says or requires as long as they are not asking us to disobey God's laws under the New Covenant (or New Testament). The thing is that it does not harm you and your worship of God to obey the government's requirements. I have heard of people I know personally who said that they know of someone who got the Corona. One of my my family member's friends in another country got it. So it is real. The virus is not an illusion, and neither is it some small problem.

 

[Tone]

If you are referring to Pentecost in Acts chapter 2, there was no virus going around at that time with the government warning people to not to congregate in large groups to protect lives. I am a believer in Jesus Christ, and I believe in following Him faithfully, and I think it is dumb for people to gather in large groups at this time because it is unloving towards your fellow brothers and sisters because one is helping to spread the virus to not only the congregation (God's people), but one is spread it to others in the city, and then another city, and then another, and another, and another, and another. Good job! Way to go in loving your neighbor! One just killed them without a care in the world. It's subtle murder. Who cares about the old people who are at a higher risk, right? Maybe it is a lie. Maybe all the governments of the world are running a psych ops program to deceive the people. Maybe they are fudging the numbers. Maybe the deaths are faked. But even if such were the case (Which it is not), it does not hurt our worship of God and fellowship if we respect the government requirements during this time (as they currently stand). We are asked to wear a face mask above the nose, and not just over the mouth. We are asked to keep 6 feet away. We are asked to not gather in large groups. We are asked to wash our hands and not touch our eyes, nose, and mouth. In fact, if we are disobeying the government and it does not conflict with God's laws, we are actually disobeying God (See: Romans 13:1-7). So it is important that we do everything we can that the government says or requires as long as they are not asking us to disobey God's laws under the New Covenant (or New Testament). The thing is that it does not harm you and your worship of God to obey the government's requirements. I have heard of people I know personally who said that they know of someone who got the Corona. One of my my family member's friends in another country got it. So it is real. The virus is not an illusion.

Do you know how large that church is?

It's a pretty big building, plenty of room to social distance.

* Not only that, they were meeting in the parking lot, before the city cut them off.

 

[Tone]

we respect the government requirements during this time (as they currently stand).

But don't lose sight that We The People are the government, and

2) We The People have set up the U.S. Constitution as the highest human authority of this here land.

fact, if we are disobeying the government and it does not conflict with God's laws, we are actually disobeying God (See: Romans 13:1-7). So it is important that we do everything we can that the government says or requires as long as they are not asking us to disobey God's laws under the New Covenant (or New Testament).

 

[Tone]

And here I always hear that California is sooo liberal and when one conservative church stands up, they are attacked.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 “Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.” (Romans 13:1-2).

Believers are not being forced to not have fellowship at all in any form. Many churches are respecting the government requirements during this time of the pandemic. But we need to love. Jesus said, “And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.” (Matthew 24:12). We need to love all people during this time. If I knew that there was even 1 billionth of a chance that a brother or sister could be harmed by me, I would do everything in my power to prevent it. I am also told to pray, and do good, and to love my enemies by the Lord Jesus Himself (based on Scripture). So if that is the case, then why would I want to potentially place them at risk or be put at risk myself to spread it to others? MacArthur's church is a perfect example of the problem in the churches today. It's all about programs, and putting on a show, and salaries, etc. and it is not about God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But don't lose sight that We The People are the government, and

2) We The People have set up the U.S. Constitution as the highest human authority of this here land.

We are not a democracy. If that was the case then president trump would have lost the election.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But don't lose sight that We The People are the government, and

2) We The People have set up the U.S. Constitution as the highest human authority of this here land.

Our main concern should not be politics or anything that should take away from our worship and following of Jesus Christ. But we do have to obey the government, otherwise we are disobeying God (unless they are asking us to disobey God).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you know how large that church is?

It's a pretty big building, plenty of room to social distance.

* Not only that, they were meeting in the parking lot, before the city cut them off.

One of the photos in an article shown them without masks and they were all shacked up next to each other. Maybe they changed. I don't know. But at one time, it did not seem they were respecting the government's requirements. Here is the article:

California pastor defies public health orders, holds services for thousands with no social distancing - CNN

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 “Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.” (Romans 13:1-2).

See the highlighted words in red. This is what MacArthur's church is doing in my humble opinion. MacArthur's church is not being asked to disobey God's laws. So they are simply defying the government but in so doing they are resisting an ordinance of God, and that is not good for them.

So we should pray for them, and hope they change their attitude. It shows a lack of love to not care about other people by not taking measures to spread the virus to other people. That is what this is really about. A lack of love. This is why we are living in the last days. Jesus said the love of many will wax cold because iniquity abounds. Most churches in my experience justify some kind of sin and still be saved type gospel. This is why some churches have defied the government for no good biblical reason.

 

[Albion]

It is possible to conduct most worship services and not run the risks that would exist with, for example, a crowd at political rally. But it's the meat-axe, one size fits all, approach to church services that has usually been the way this has gone.

So that fact, coupled with the well-known truth that the ordinary people are to be governed but not the governors who feel at liberty to violate the same edicts that they themselves have laid down, cannot have failed to make people skeptical about the seriousness of those edicts.

Something to remember when it comes to finger-pointing.