Grace Community Church Defies Court With Packed Sunday Service

[Archivist]

Precisely. They are trying to herd us and give into more fear. The mask is a symbol of fear

No, the mask is to protect yourself and, more important, to protect others.

 

[usexpat97]

Defying Ceaser is packing out this church!

Grace Community Church Defies Court With Packed Sunday Service

There's a reason why the Antichrist is called the man of LAWLESSNESS .

 

[NotreDame]

Precisely. They are trying to herd us and give into more fear. The mask is a symbol of fear

The mask is a symbol of common sense. You are confusing fear and caution. Seat belts, medications, insulin, age restriction to drive a car, speed limits, air bags, etcetera, are like masks, they exist as acts of caution to reduce risk.

 

[NotreDame]

in 1989 the corona virus was listed in the US medical journal as the common cold.
they did a survey of American and asked them how many people do you think have died of corona virus and the average answer was over 10 million while less then 200,000 have died. The impression the masses have of the severity of the situation is manufactured to 25 times greater than reality.

Oh brother. You do realize there are different strans of coronaviruses, just as there are of the flu virus? No, didn’t know that? It shows, because the coronavirus listed as a cold in 1989 is not the same kind of coronavirus causing COVID-19, just as the influenza virus of today is the same kind of influenza virus that killed 675,000 Americans in 1918.

 

[HappyHope]

I fear Americans are going to pay a much bigger price than the rest of the world because of their unwillingness to follow medical guidance. Choose your reason:

• The government can't tell the church what to do.
• It's a Democratic hoax staging us for the new world order.
• It's my right to freedom of assembly. It's in the constitution.
• Bill Gates is behind it all to hide a microchip in the vaccine.
• It only kills old people, so what?

What about love your neighbor? Have we no obligation to help keep others well even if we don't care about ourselves?
If I was a member of this body, I'd be looking for a new church.

I lean a different way politically and pay no attention to Bill Gates but feel similarly on your main point. It is not loving to defy government safety measures. I've heard a pastor say it comes down to a theology saying Christians feel they are in it to win it. In contrast, Jesus won by losing.

 

[Albion]

I've heard a pastor say it comes down to a theology saying Christians feel they are in it to win it. In contrast, Jesus won by losing.

But only because he was God and impossible to kill. The comparison kind of suffers for that reason.

 

[JM]

We have been meeting for literally months and we haven't had a single case. Churches like Apologia NEVER shut their doors and they haven't had a single case of COVID either.

Medical advice has become politicized and suspect.

 

[Archivist]

We have been meeting for literally months and we haven't had a single case. Churches like Apologia NEVER shut their doors and they haven't had a single case of COVID either.

Medical advice has become politicized and suspect.

And we had had more than 70 COVID cases at West Virginia churches that behaved irresponsibly.

 

[HappyHope]

But only because he was God and impossible to kill. The comparison kind of suffers for that reason.

Not really, Peter wasn't supposed to cut off Malchus's ear. Jesus's kingdom doesn't work like that even with an actual legitimate threat--much less government health measures.

 

[Albion]

Not really, Peter wasn't supposed to cut of that Roman's ear. Jesus's kingdom doesn't work like that even with an actual legitimate threat.

I'm afraid I'm missing how that is supposed to show that Jesus won by losing.

 

[JM]

And we had had more than 70 COVID cases at West Virginia churches that behaved irresponsibly.

Gosh, you had new cases? So? It's the flu. How many deaths? What was the average age of those who died? How do you know they "behaved irresponsibly?" What did "they" do and how do you know?

Still...over 99% that contract COVID recover.

 

[Archivist]

Gosh, you had new cases? So? It's the flu. How many deaths? What was the average age of those who died? How do you know they "behaved irresponsibly?" What did "they" do and how do you know?

Still...over 99% that contract COVID recover.

No, it isn’t the flu. It was COVID. Seven churches. One death thus far, an elderly church member. People were not wearing masks, were not distancing, were shaking hands and singing.

This was all reported in the local newspapers.

 

[HappyHope]

I'm afraid I'm missing how that is supposed to show that Jesus won by losing.

If Jesus is the head of the church, we are to be like him. Jesus had this countercultural/upside down kingdom thing going on with themes like servant leadership, laying down one's life for an enemy, and we are told to expect persecution. In contrast, the world is all about self service, control, and winning.

Christians win the same way Jesus did--humility, grace, service, and love. To the world this looks like losing but from a kingdom perspective it wins people to the Lord.

Again, government health regulations are nothing worth defying even if there was some kind of malice or persecution behind it--which I highly doubt.

 

[Albion]

If Jesus is the head of the church, we are to be like him. Jesus had this countercultural/upside down kingdom thing going on with themes like servant leadership, laying down one's life for an enemy, and we are told to expect persecution. In contrast, the world is all about self service, control, and winning.

That's what "winning by losing" was supposed to mean? I guess I don't think of charity, love, compassion, and etc. as losing. Especially since this was his purpose, to teach such virtues. And if you feel that because he was put to death, he lost and his teaching lost, I guess I just have to disagree.

Christians win the same way Jesus did--humility, grace, service, and love. To the world this looks like losing but from a kingdom perspective it wins people to the Lord.

To me, that sounds like he won, not that he lost.

But it's a minor point probably not worth arguing further.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I fear Americans are going to pay a much bigger price than the rest of the world because of their unwillingness to follow medical guidance. Choose your reason:

• The government can't tell the church what to do.
• It's a Democratic hoax staging us for the new world order.
• It's my right to freedom of assembly. It's in the constitution.
• Bill Gates is behind it all to hide a microchip in the vaccine.
• It only kills old people, so what?

What about love your neighbor? Have we no obligation to help keep others well even if we don't care about ourselves?
If I was a member of this body, I'd be looking for a new church.

There are multitudes of diseases out there, if we are to isolate and quarantine every time someone catches one the world would literally stop.

 

[RushMAN]

If Jesus is the head of the church, we are to be like him. Jesus had this countercultural/upside down kingdom thing going on with themes like servant leadership, laying down one's life for an enemy, and we are told to expect persecution. In contrast, the world is all about self service, control, and winning.

Christians win the same way Jesus did--humility, grace, service, and love. To the world this looks like losing but from a kingdom perspective it wins people to the Lord.

Again, government health regulations are nothing worth defying even if there was some kind of malice or persecution behind it--which I highly doubt.

So if the government said "no praying, no worshiping anywhere because it's a health risk and you will be jailed" would you give in? Because that is pretty much what Newsome. He wet so far to say no worship in the home. When the government violates the first amendment I will fight. BTW yesterday in Pennsylvania a judge did find that people's 1st and 14th Amendment were violated by "health orders". The governments had no right to do what they did aand are still doing.

 

[RDKirk]

That much is true. The point is lesser doesn't mean none. And protests/riots are not a necessity (in fact I see it as destructive) and do nothing to help control the virus. I find that Americans generally put politics above safety. And not helping in the situation is the uneven handedness of the authority in enforcing rules and regulations.

How do you expect people to obey when they see such biased enforcement? Either you go full draconian no gatherings no exceptions or full rights all gatherings are fine no exceptions. Authorities should choose one or the other not both conditionally based on their political leanings.

The issue of the rights of citizens in the US has never, ever been "full draconian or full rights" in any context.

 

[HappyHope]

So if the government said "no praying, no worshiping anywhere because it's a health risk and you will be jailed" would you give in? Because that is pretty much what Newsome. He wet so far to say no worship in the home. When the government violates the first amendment I will fight. BTW yesterday in Pennsylvania a judge did find that people's 1st and 14th Amendment were violated by "health orders". The governments had no right to do what they did aand are still doing.

Governments overstep. Churches can overstep too.

 

[RushMAN]

Governments overstep. Churches can overstep too.

So are we suppose to be happy when governments overstep? No Churches do not overstep, heck most of them are rank cowards right now except for a few like John MacArthur and Grace Community Church. The problem is Christians have become the modern cowards and capitulate to the governments whim.

 

[NotreDame]

Gosh, you had new cases? So? It's the flu. How many deaths? What was the average age of those who died? How do you know they "behaved irresponsibly?" What did "they" do and how do you know?

Still...over 99% that contract COVID recover.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We have people today convinced the earth is flat. They have no evidence for this opinion, and there’s a mountain of evidence demonstrating the world is not flat, but they still have such an opinion, albeit erroneous opinion.

The data doesn’t support any notion, “It’s the flu.” You are entitled to your opinion, like the flat earth crowd, but the evidence shows otherwise.

Still...over 99% that contract COVID recover.

So, let’s do the math. 1% of all people who contract the virus die. There have been 195,447 deaths from Covid-19. The number 195,447 is 1% of what number? The number 19.5 million and 447 thousand people have had the virus since February. (I’m counting from February since this seems to be when the virus began spreading widely in the U.S. based on the data and inferences. Some prefer March as this is when widespread confirmatory testing began detecting the virus across the U.S.)

So, that’s 19.5 million and 447 thousand people with the virus in 7 months. A number reached with shutdowns, with continued shutdowns in some places, masks, and social distancing. That averages 2,792,100 infections a month. That averages 27,921 deaths a month.

If the projection is accurate, and 400,000 are dead by the end of 2020, at a mortality rate of 1%, that is 40,000,000 million infections in under 1 year, just over 10 months.

The 1% mortality rate isn’t flattering when discussing a highly infectious diesease that has successfully spread with shutdowns, continued shutdowns in some places, and mitigation efforts. Of course, what has contributed to its rapid spread are those people who defy efforts to reduce the spread of the virus, such as wearing a mask, social distancing, and not gathering in large numbers as required by order of the state for the circumstances, yes, like this church.

But from some point in July until mid to late August, the U.S. logged at least 40,000 new cases a day, with a stretch of 60,000 a day for awhile. At a mortality rate of 1%, that’s 400/day, 600/day. (Not perhaps an accurate accounting because it doesn’t account for all cases, specifically antibody testing telling us who contracted the virus but never tested positive or never tested). The U.S. now averages between 37,000 and 40,000 positives a day.

That’s a lot of death associated with the 1% you are so cavalier about. The flu is jealous of those numbers, as it doesn’t come close in its 6 month reign of flu season. This isn’t the flu. The mortality rate is 1% doesn’t help you making your callous point.

But what I’m saying, of course Jesus would say congregate in large numbers or in hundreds for church, after all, if there is an outbreak among the church members, and those they infected in their communities, only about 1% will die, the other 99% will survive. Of course, pray a disproportionate number of people infected aren’t high risk, as the mortality rate could spike from the selfish and reckless act of gathering in large numbers or in the hundreds for church.