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Grace and Law?

Discussion in 'Questions by Non-Christians (Archived)' started by Help-me-learn, Aug 28, 2002.

  1. Help-me-learn

    Help-me-learn Member

    143
    +0
    Is Grace and Law seperate? Does God give us grace to keep the law? I have my opinion, just wondered what others think. :confused: :eek:
     
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  2. Blessed-one

    Blessed-one a long journey ahead

    +170
    Protestant
    Single
    if there was law without grace, then none of us would ever be free of sin, for no one, can totally and completely keep the law, and say we have no sin. Only through grace, can we be redeemed, and law only brings condemnation.

    Grace and law needs to go together, not separate.

    moving this to a more appropriate forum.
     
  3. Glen

    Glen New Member

    19
    +0
    The Law was given to show man what sin is. Before the law, people didn't "know" the difference between what was right and wrong in God's eyes. That's why God gave us the law. It was our "schoolmaster" to point us directly at Jesus.

    We don't live under the law anymore - the law didn't work. That's why Jesus came. He replaced the law - and wrote on our hearts and mind. We are saved by grace (unmerited favor). We couldn't keep the law if we tried. Jesus was the only one ever to live according to the law. Thankfully, we don't have to live according to the law - because we'd never cut it.
     
  4. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    You have grace so that the Law can be what it was ment to be, a guide on how to live, but not death when you break it.
     
  5. Help-me-learn

    Help-me-learn Member

    143
    +0
    Blessed-one said, Grace and law needs to go together, not separate.
    Galatians 3:24,25, seems to say different. Maybe I'm not looking at it right. It says, 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
    Does this mean that the law is nolonger for the christian, but to lead the lost to christ? In that case the law has done its job.
     
  6. Blessed-one

    Blessed-one a long journey ahead

    +170
    Protestant
    Single
    Jesus came to fulfill the Law, not to abolish it. As Louis said above.

     
  7. Help-me-learn

    Help-me-learn Member

    143
    +0
    The law was given to point to Christ. Once we come to Christ, do we remain under the law still? HEB 7:18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.


    1tim1:9 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

    This says the law is for the ungodly.
    If we are christians then we are not counted amoung the ungodly.
     
  8. Help-me-learn

    Help-me-learn Member

    143
    +0
    Jesus didn't come to abolish the law, He left it to judge the ungodly.
     
  9. Blessed-one

    Blessed-one a long journey ahead

    +170
    Protestant
    Single
    the law, was often made into legalism by false teachers, that's why we need the Holy Spirit to give us discernment.
    As we have grace and faith, we should be able to do the right things (which are in the law) but the law shows us that we keep falling from the standard, so with grace, we try to make a new beginning each time we sin, and we keep striving for the goal, which ultimately is to become as Christ like as we can.
     
  10. Help-me-learn

    Help-me-learn Member

    143
    +0
    If we are to become more like Christ, it will not be by keeping the law. To be like Christ we are to love at all times. When you love you have fullfilled the law without even trying to keep it.
     
  11. Blessed-one

    Blessed-one a long journey ahead

    +170
    Protestant
    Single
    :) then by keeping the greatest commandments: love your God and love your neightbour, we've kept the laws. Therefore, it's keeping the law in a nutshell.
     
  12. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    Paul wrote: “Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ.” (Ga 6:2) While the Law covenant was terminated at Pentecost, 33 C.E. (“since the priesthood is being changed, there comes to be of necessity a change also of the law”; Heb 7:12), Christians come “under law toward Christ.” (1Co 9:21) This law is called “the perfect law that belongs to freedom,” “the law of a free people,” “the law of faith.” (Jas 1:25; 2:12; Ro 3:27) Such a new law had been foretold by God through the prophet Jeremiah when he spoke of a new covenant and the writing of his law on the hearts of his people. Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:6-13.

    Like Moses, the mediator of the Law covenant, Jesus Christ is Mediator of the new covenant. Moses wrote the Law in code form, but Jesus did not personally put a law down in writing. He talked and put his law into the minds and hearts of his disciples. Neither did his disciples set down laws in the form of a code for Christians, classifying the laws into categories and subheadings. Nonetheless, the OT or Greek Scriptures are full of laws, commands, and decrees that the Christian is bound to observe. Re 14:12; 1Jo 5:2, 3; 4:21; 3:22-24; 2Jo 4-6; Joh 13:34, 35; 14:15; 15:14.

    Jesus gave instruction to his disciples to preach the ‘good news of the kingdom.’ His command is found at Matthew 10:1-42; Luke 9:1-6; 10:1-12. At Matthew 28:18-20 a new command was given to Jesus’ disciples to go, not to the Jews only, but to all nations, to make disciples and baptize them with a new baptism, “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” Thus, with divine authorization Jesus taught and issued commands while on earth (Ac 1:1, 2) as well as after his ascension. (Ac 9:5, 6; Re 1:1-3) The entire book of Revelation consists of prophecies, commands, admonition, and instruction to the Christian congregation.

    The “law of the Christ” covers the whole course and scope of the Christian’s life and work. By the help of God’s spirit the Christian can follow the commands in order to be judged favorably by that law, for it is “the law of that spirit which gives life in union with Christ Jesus.” Ro 8:2, 4.

    Nevertheless, a study of the Law with its Ten Words (or commandments) is essential for Christians, for it reveals God’s viewpoint of matters, principles by which we can learn much, and it had “a shadow of the good things to come,” of the reality that belongs to the Christ. (Heb 10:1; Col 2:17; Ga 6:2) Christians are “not without law toward God but under law toward Christ.” (1Co 9:21) But they are not condemned as sinners by that law, for the undeserved kindness of God through Christ provides forgiveness for their errors due to fleshly weakness. Ro 3:23, 24.
     
  13. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "#10


    If we are to become more like Christ, it will not be by keeping the law.

    "

    wrong-o :) you should strive to keep the law, but christ summed it up for us, love others, love God. Do this and you keep the law, for like I said, the law is now a guide, not a condemner, thus we SHOULD read it and try to follow it as best we can as christ showed us.
     
  14. Help-me-learn

    Help-me-learn Member

    143
    +0
    It seems that people want to feel good by keeping most of the law. They will not commit adultery because it is in the Ten Commandments, and on the other hand the will not keep the sabbath that is the same ten. I guess the sabath falls under grace and adultery falls under law.

    Some say you cannot seperate grace and law. Then those same people exclude some of the laws that are found with the ones they say keep.

    I don't understand.

    You would think we are to rest in Christ from the law that brought death and while we are in Christ to love our neighbor and in doing so we will not commit adultery. As long as we love we have fulfilled the law without even looking back to see if we kelp it.

    I think it makes people feel good to check off what they are doing right.
     
  15. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    It all comes down to the law of love.  If you love your neigbor you dont sleep with his wife.  But the sabbath does not come under the law of love.

    So when we apply the law of love, many of the commandments of the old law are automatically covered and othes are excluded.

    I think that's the best I can do in such few words. 

    Hope it helps.
     
  16. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "I think it makes people feel good to check off what they are doing right."

    I agree, but that's not what I said :) Its now a guide. So that we still do have some path to know how to "love others" and "obey his commandments".
     
  17. Help-me-learn

    Help-me-learn Member

    143
    +0
    I thought the Holy Spirit guides us now,not the law.
     
  18. Help-me-learn

    Help-me-learn Member

    143
    +0
    Were the Ten Commandents the only law engraved in stone?
    If they were then why do we mix an old covenant with a new one?
    This is the verse I'm talking about below.

    2COR 3:6 Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

    2CO 3:7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
     
  19. \o/

    \o/ Member

    153
    +0
    There is a difference between the administration of the law and the law itself.

     

    Grace that doesn't put us in harmony with the law is disgrace.

     "I will put my laws in their minds

    and write them on their hearts.

    I will be their God,

    and they will be my people." Heb 8:10.
     
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