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Featured "Grace alone " is a big excuse for lazy Christians

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by johnnywong, Apr 25, 2019.

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  1. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    3 Reasons why He came:
    Jesus Came to Give His Life as a Ransom for Many
    Jesus Came to Call Sinners to Repentance
    Jesus Came to Give Eternal Life
    Three Reasons Why Jesus Came | Stand to Reason
     
  2. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Luke 9:62 But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for God’s Kingdom.” (WEB) Plowing a field without looking back is not laziness.

    Martha was working hard and complained about her sister Mary not working. Mary was sitting listening to Jesus' teaching. Jesus told Martha that Mary had chosen the better activity. Luke 10:38-42

    Visiting sick and imprisoned people and sharing good news with them does not bring in a paycheck, but there may be some glory, if it is done right.
     
  3. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    That's one of the most terrifying things I think I've read in a while. Grace is not "training wheels", grace is everything. "But by the grace of God I am what I am."

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  4. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    All Kingdom related. Focus on the Kingdom. Man's doctrines are no substitute.
     
  5. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    Do you know the purpose of "training wheels?" They keep you from falling when, without them, you would.

    Sure, grace has other functions, but that is a big one...
     
  6. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    And they are a temporary solution, that one eventually overcomes the need for. Grace isn't just there to cushion our fall, grace is the oxygen in the air without which we would suffocate and die.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  7. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    It makes me nervous when people think they can take off those training wheels and go it on their own, as if they only need Jesus at the beginning until they can follow all the commandments on their own and don't need Him anymore because they've managed to reach "perfection" without Him.
     
  8. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    When we get to Heaven, we won't need them/it (at least, not in that capacity).
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  9. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Grace gave us the option of the Kingdom to the world we have made in our image. The choice is still ours as to which set of opposing ideals we will follow
     
  10. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    I know you're not.

    What??
    Are you saying that a believer can go to heaven and still be affected by sin? Impossible.

    Yes, you're right; our free will is not taken away. We can, and still, do sin through negligence, weakness or our own deliberate fault.
    But I don't believe that a Christian who is IN Christ, abiding and walking in him, will deliberately plan ways to sin and rebel against God.

    A number of those are about believers persevering and holding firm to the faith through times of persecution - i.e don't renounce your faith in hard times, don't deny Christ and try to save your life.

    We aren't.
    We are saved from eternal death - which is the result of sin; separation from God - and can have eternal life through Jesus. Adam brought sin and death into the world; Jesus is the second Adam who has bought life and peace with God, Romans 5:12-21.
    If someone accepts that Jesus died for them, repents and receives him as their Saviour, they are saved from eternal death; saved by HIS work on the cross, Romans 5:1, Romans 5:11, 2 Corinthians 5:18-20. If they died soon after accepting Christ and being born again, they would be reconciled with God, saved from eternal death and have eternal life.
    Anyone who doesn't die immediately after receiving Jesus will want to spend the rest of their time on this earth serving him. We will have struggles against sin, the world and the devil; we may give in, be overwhelmed, start to doubt and so on. But while we may be separated from God for a while, he doesn't give up on us; Romans 8:38-39 says that nothing can separate us from the love of God. Jesus also said that no one can snatch us from his Father's hands, John 10:29 - we can walk away from his Father's hands, but not be snatched.

    We didn't have to DO anything to be created by God, we didn't have to DO anything to be loved by God, Romans 5:8; we don't need to DO anything to be saved by God - except to accept what Christ has already done.

    No, we CAN help it; we can give ourselves to God, keep on being filled with his Spirit and ASK him to work through us. In other words, we can be willing to speak to a complete stranger, but God will direct the conversation - even onto matters of faith, if we let him.

    JESUS' finished work on the cross has achieved our salvation - his is the only work that matters or means anything.
    OUR works are like filthy rags - useless without Christ.

    That's not how it is.
    We serve and obey God, but sit back and not worry about "results", or that everything depends on us.
    It's not about hoping that God will work through us, but trusting that he will. And that doesn't mean that God forces our arms and legs to go where we don't want to go or do what we don't want to do. He doesn't force us to do anything - we love and serve him because he loved us and gave himself for us.
     
  11. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    If all you meant was that grace is necessary in this life--because we are mortal sinners without any holiness and righteousness to call our own--but that we will be made holy and righteous in that beatific life to come. Then I apologize for my initial horror. But I have encountered plenty who seem to think that grace, that the cross of Jesus Christ, etc are merely a kind of "stepping stone" toward some kind of moral or "spiritual" life that we can attain here, that Christians can attain their own holiness, their own righteousness, and thus be made perfect by their own obedience to God's commandments, or by living a "moral" life. Such thinking is horrific because it amounts to a firm denial of the Gospel, and is precisely why St. Paul begins the third chapter to the Galatians saying, "O foolish Galatians, who has deceived you?!"

    The Christian life is not a life of glory, but a life of the cross.
    The Christian life is not a life of being "moral", but a life of faith in repentance.

    The life of good works we are called to live in isn't glory, it isn't about our moral improvement, or some kind of righteousness for ourselves; but is the life of faith in the trenches of this world, with a cross on our back, in service and love for our neighbor. These good works do not make us holy, or righteous, or moral, or "good"; they are works done in love out of a heart of gratitude to God who saves us and who gives us Jesus Christ in whom we have life and peace with God, and the comfort and grace of our forgiveness even as sinful wretches here and now.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  12. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Frequently you get very close to understanding what the kingdom is and means, but it seems as soon as you do you then retreat back into the cave of the Opinio Legis, denying the power and meaning of the kingdom.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  13. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Think so? lol
     
  14. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    The kingdom is about the condescension of God into the world who suffers cross and humiliation, and who takes hold of us sinners in grace. The kingdom does not look like the kingdoms of this world, because God's kingdom looks like a crucified carpenter from Nazareth crying, "Forgive them, Father, for they don't know what they are doing."

    For the least is greatest.
    The last is first.
    Blessed are the poor.
    Blessed are those who hunger.
    For theirs is the kingdom.

    God is for the small, the weak, the least. For God has chosen the foolish and weak things of the world to confound the wise and confuse the strong. But for us who are being saved, Jesus Christ the wisdom and power of God.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  15. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I think a majority of people who believe works are necessary for salvation are just misunderstood and misrepresented by those who advocate eternal security. From what I’ve seen those who advocate conditional salvation usually tend to have a more comprehensive understanding of the scriptures, early church writings, and the Greek & Hebrew languages. While those who advocate eternal security disregard scriptures, early church writings, and the Greek & Hebrew languages.
     
  16. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    In a round about way.

    The King came to tell us the good news about the Kingdom, not to promote Himself. He had a mission to accomplish and did so. He told His followers to spread the Gospel of the Kingdom (that being what He taught) . We don't just spread the news of the messenger, but of His message.

    Luke 4:43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

    Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

    Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom...

    Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    As you see, the main character is still the Kingdom. Jesus taught us to reject the ways of man for the ways of the Kingdom. Believing in Him is believing in what He taught, the Gospel of the Kingdom. Remember that Jesus followed the will of both the Father and the Kingdom.
     
  17. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    However, God during this time period is using kindness to bring people to repentance, Romans Chapter 2.
     
  18. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    My daughter received Christ at the age of 9, went through the church Sunday school, then went away from it to another church when she was about 16. Then circumstances happened which stopped her going to church. She is now 27. I asked her a couple of years ago whether she wanted to go back to a church, and she said, "No. I don't want people telling me how to live."
     
  19. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    This is Sanctification - abiding in Christ as a converted believer. Conversion grafts the person into the vine, sanctification keeps him grafted in. We conduct ourselves according to the fruit of the Spirit. This is the way that Christ commanded us to live. If we are walking in the spirit, showing the fruit of the Spirit, then we are subject to no set of commandments, rules, or laws that are imposed on us. Through the fruit of the Spirit we are living the law out of our new hearts and enlivened spirit.
     
  20. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference between telling people how to live and instead giving them a choice. Few too many churches fail to point out that division is not between man, but between the world man has made in our image and the Kingdom. God gives a choice and expects us to use our intelligence as to which has the better system.
     
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