Govt free marriages

Breezyberlin

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Well, let's pretend that the issue I am refering to is true. Would you then still say that the apostate church has to be the issuer of the baptism certificate in order for the person to be baptised in the eyes of God? It actually doesn't matter if it is true or not, for the sake of your opinion.... for the sake of this discussion. :oldthumbsup:
 
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Winepress777

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Did anyone here consider or do a govt free marriage. Is this becomming more and more accepted socially and in most churches?
That IS the original "Marriage" lol. Here is the most beautiful wedding ceremony I know of. (Notice no 'government' or any "man" replaces God in this marriage);

(Gen 24:63) And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, the camels were coming.


(Gen 24:64) And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel.


(Gen 24:65) For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.


(Gen 24:66) And the servant told Isaac all things that he had done.

(Gen 24:67) And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death.

As far as modern day "legalities" go, the intrusion of government into control over "Holy Matrimony" only causes problems, such as have all been covered in this thread already. But "Common Law" Marriage, such as Isaac and Rebekah, has always been the ultimate authority, and is even now recognized in most of the world. Some states in the U.S. don't though. So yes, you can have "legal" issues there. But your conscience can be clear before God if your marriage is as Isaac and Rebekah's marriage, you can be sure :)
 
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ananda

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Someone on hear argued that we should be "government married" because Peter and Paul said to obey the laws of the nation... Which implies that having a religious only marriage would in some way be illegal and it is not, therefore I think that argument is entirely besides the point ...

If a couple wants to be married in the eyes of God and their community, making a real commitment to each other, I don't see any reason why not. In fact, I think that, as the governments become more and more hostile towards fundamental Christians, the Body of Christ might find that it is neccessary (gasp) to operate on their own, aside from the government. Without breaking reasonable laws, of course. For example, if every pastor who refuses to marry homosexual couples is officially banned from preforming legal marriages in the U.S., I would most definitly still let my pastor marry me and I would happily wave bye-bye to my government legal status of marriage. In the end, the Kingdom governement is all that matters.
The gov't does not require a couple to be civilly married. The gov't offers it along with various benefits (and restrictions, associated with the license) if a couple should so choose to be civilly married. In the same way, the Roman Catholic Church does not require couples to embrace their holy matrimony. The RCC offers it along with various benefits and restrictions as well if they should so choose holy matrimony in their church.

Couples have and may still declare themselves to be married otherwise (common-law marriage), simply by an act of self-declaration, without an officiant.
 
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sdmsanjose

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But your conscience can be clear before God if your marriage is as Isaac and Rebekah's marriage, you can be sure.


100% agreed!!!

Having the state have powers and involvement in your personal relation that involves a deep spiritual connection seems so unnecessary and can be problematic
upload_2015-6-13_16-6-28.png
. Having a successful marriage has nothing to do with a marriage license and the state’s involvement in your personal relationships. If anything the state can have a negative effect on a marriage relationship.

The state does absolutely nothing for the relationship accept when the relationship goes to divorce. That is when the state dictates the custody of the children and tells you how your finances and assets are going to be divided. If an angered spouse knows that they can get financial gains and assets they may be more inclined to feed their anger. Instead, without the lure of assets and financial gain, the angered person may rethink the situation and try and work it out. If the couple are Christian then there is almost always a way to work it out!
 
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Dave-W

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Having a successful marriage has nothing to do with a marriage license and the state’s involvement in your personal relationships.

If you are in a jurisdiction where the state has an official process of marriage, and you do NOT do it, there is no marriage.
 
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Dave-W

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No, there is only no marriage in the eyes of the state.
And since we are told multiple times in scripture to obey the laws of the land ........ their eyes carry it according to scripture.
 
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ananda

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And since we are told multiple times in scripture to obey the laws of the land ........ their eyes carry it according to scripture.
Of course, it is required to obey the law if you so desire a civil marriage.

A civil marriage is not required of anyone, however. I have not seen a law stating otherwise.
 
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sdmsanjose

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ananda said:
No, there is only no marriage in the eyes of the state.



By Dave
And since we are told multiple times in scripture to obey the laws of the land ........ their eyes carry it according to scripture.


Some states allow a minor girl to get an abortion without the parents’ consent (see below). Dave the state is not infallible and is not the standard for interpersonal spiritual affairs.


Alaska
Your state requires that one of your parents be told of your decision 48 hours before your abortion. A judge can excuse you from this requirement. This law only applies to girls younger than 17. –


California

No parental involvement requirement.


Connecticut

No parental involvement requirement.


New Jersey

No parental involvement requirement.


New Mexico

No parental involvement requirement.


New York

No parental involvement requirement. –


See more at: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/le...onsent-notification-laws#sthash.7L8X4CcH.dpuf
 
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Dave-W

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Some states allow a minor girl to get an abortion without the parents’ consent (see below). Dave the state is not infallible and is not the standard for interpersonal spiritual affairs.
Of course they do. But messing up royally in one point does not invalidate other points. Remember the leaders of the Temple told the disciples to no longer teach in the Name of the Lord. But they did. However, that did not stop them from going to the temple every day and even Paul from participating in temple worship years (perhaps decades) later.
 
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sdmsanjose

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Dave, if you want to advocate the state being able to dictate the custody of your children, your financial wellbeing and who your children will be living with for at least 50% of the time then that is your prerogative. I have seen the state issue a 50% child custody to an adulterous woman that was a druggie, an atheist, and living with a sexual deviant. The state does not take into consideration sin such as adultery or if the person is an atheist or in a cult, or if the man has had dozens of sex partners and has been divorced three times. The state looks at the financial situation and unless there is a criminal record the state will rule that the person who is an repeated adulterer, is an atheist, and is shaking up with a three time divorced sex machine will get 50% custody.

I have seen this happen and no longer advocate for the state because they have changed. They mostly just want to settle the financial situation and that has a lot to do with the custody of the children. I was told by an attorney for my relative that he was not going to bring up the multiple adulteries and the atheist because the judge will not allow it. We now live in a country that has changed and they no longer allow many biblical moral beliefs to be a factor in divorce.

The marriage and divorce laws many years ago did take into consideration some of the moral laws of the bible but now they have taken them out then rule on the custody of your children, dictate your financial obligation and divide your assets.

The states also will issue marriage licenses to sexual deviants, drug addicts, adulteress, murders, and even child molesters in some cases. So Dave, you want me to advocate the state having powers over my children and assets? Sorry, I’m not interested.
 
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Dave-W

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As to child custody, I grew up in an era where in a marital breakup the children were given to the mother no matter what; with the possible exceptions of her being insane and about to be committed to an institution or she was accused of mass or serial murders.
 
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sdmsanjose

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s to child custody, I grew up in an era where in a marital breakup the children were given to the mother no matter what; with the possible exceptions of her being insane and about to be committed to an institution or she was accused of mass or serial murders.


I grew up in tat era also and as Bob Dylan says "The times they are a changing"
 
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hischild2

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Pittsflyer, after reading your series of concerns which I can sympathize with because they are real concerns for modern times, I really have to pose the question to you as to are you really ready to marry even in a non-government marriage.

As others have noted, even if you don`t make it official and you have been with a woman for a significant amount of time, she can still take everything you own by claiming common law marriage. You don`t even have to marry someone. If you let anyone stay in your house for a period of time, they may claim squatter`s rights and it can take an expensive court battle to get them out of your house.

What I am getting at is God designed marriage "till death do we part", humans design marriage "until I get bored or find someone with more money or better looks, etc. " If you are serious about marriage, you have to be wise in entering it and get a little business-like. Scrutinize the girl`s background. Does she have a habit of quitting? Does she have a long list of relationships she has run through? What is her pattern in relationships? Why has her previous relationships ended? Does she have a mental illness? What about her parents? Are they divorced? What kind of a model for marriage did they give to her? What are her siblings relationships like? What about her friends? Does she run around with a bunch of divorcees who might encourage her to divorce the second she gets a little bored with marriage or the two of you have an argument? Her friends will have an influence in her life. Don`t just ask her what she feels about marriage, look at real examples in her life to how committed and loyal she actually is to things. And certainly don`t base marriage purely on feelings.

At the same time, look at yourself. Are you ready for a lifelong commitment in sickness or health, for better or for worse, for richer or poorer? Are you willing to stick it out to the end? If you are not, then marriage should be out of the question. But if you are both committed sincerely where divorce is never an option, then and only then are you ready for a long term relationship whether it is a government marriage or not. I think the most important thing is the Godly commitment rather than the government paper.

But back to your original question as to whether churches would recognize a nongovernment marriage or not, I would venture to say I doubt most churches except the most liberal ones would recognize that marriage. They would just view it as sinfully living together. But if you get the right woman and you both have the right determination to stay together till death, then I don`t think you have to fear a government marriage.
 
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tulipbee

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Did anyone here consider or do a govt free marriage. Is this becomming more and more accepted socially and in most churches?
Very interesting topic! What would a church free marriage look like? Seems to me that government marriages are nothing but legal agreements to join health insurance, share bills, be with them in hospitals, be a parent to adopted kids, beat each other up, what else did I leave out, etc. What's all this have to do with Christian marriages?
 
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dysert

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If the government makes a law that says "You have to drive a green 1974 Chevy Vega", that's not something the government has the authority to tell you to do. You have no obligation to follow that law.
How is this different from "You have to buy health insurance" or "You have to have a permit to carry a gun" or "You have to have a license to drive" or ... ?
 
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Dave-W

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If the government makes a law that says "You have to drive a green 1974 Chevy Vega", that's not something the government has the authority to tell you to do. You have no obligation to follow that law.
On what basis do you say the government lacks authority in this case? Does owning or driving a green Vega cause us to violate scripture?
 
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dayhiker

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Ya, I'd think the gov can make any law it wasn't to. They sure have made a lot of laws and then changed those laws at a later date.
People can disobey any law they want and each will suffer the consequences from that government.

The trick is to break an unjust law in a way that will prick the conscience of the public and leave the government with a no win situation in punishing us.
I think an open society with free speech is needed to do that.
 
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