Goodbye General Lee

[Michie]

This Forum is a place for respectful discussion and debate of political issues, by Roman Catholics, in the context of the Roman Catholic Faith.

The national press is giddy over the news that the statue of Robert E. Lee will be removed from the Virginia state capital this week. Just giddy. The Taliban would be proud. The modern Left doing what so many enemies of America tried to do an failed.
Daffey Thoughts: Goodbye General Lee

Virginia to remove 12-ton Robert E. Lee statue in state capital this week

 

[Silverback]

This Forum is a place for respectful discussion and debate of political issues, by Roman Catholics, in the context of the Roman Catholic Faith.

The national press is giddy over the news that the statue of Robert E. Lee will be removed from the Virginia state capital this week. Just giddy. The Taliban would be proud. The modern Left doing what so many enemies of America tried to do an failed.
Daffey Thoughts: Goodbye General Lee

Virginia to remove 12-ton Robert E. Lee statue in state capital this week

You are correct, I really think Confederate statues should be moved to private property, that way they can be left alone.

 

[Strathos]

Why is it good to celebrate a traitor to America?

 

[Silverback]

Why is it good to celebrate a traitor to America?

History, for better or worse has to be remembered. Personally speaking, I think Confederate monuments need to be moved to private property. There are exceptions though, such as monuments to Confederate Army Units at our National Military Parks.

 

[Strathos]

History, for better or worse has to be remembered. Personally speaking, I think Confederate monuments need to be moved to private property. There are exceptions though, such as monuments to Confederate Army Units at our National Military Parks.

Private property works. I'm not saying they should be destroyed or anything, just not publicly endorsed by the government.

 

[Silverback]

Private property works. I'm not saying they should be destroyed or anything, just not publicly endorsed by the government.

There are Confederate memorials in one or two Northern States, and the Confederate Battle Flag is in every pub overseas that's frequented by US Military Personnel.

 

[Wolseley]

Why is the Left trying to eradicate evidence of something that ended over 150 years ago? What possible difference does it make now? Is the Army of Northern Virginia a viable threat to American society today? Are there any slave owners in the South who are still forcing Black people to pick cotton for them under the threat of a whip? Are there any States threatening to spread slavery westward?

The whole thing is asinine. Whether Lee was a traitor or an American hero, whether any other Confederate veteran has a statue in a park or not, what possible difference does it make now??? There are people being held as slaves in Africa right now, at this very instant. There are hundreds of women that are abducted off our streets, drugged, and sold as sexual slaves every day, right here in River City. Why don't they channel their energies towards doing something about that?

I'll tell you why: because activism against current forms of slavery doesn't hold out the possibility of reparations like activism about slavery 150 years ago does. If somebody figures they can get a fat check from American society because their great-great-great-grandpa was born in a shack in Mississippi, that's something to campaign for. But slavery today? Pfft! Who cares? There's no profit in that.

 

[Silverback]

Why is the Left trying to eradicate evidence of something that ended over 150 years ago? What possible difference does it make now? Is the Army of Northern Virginia a viable threat to American society today? Are there any slave owners in the South who are still forcing Black people to pick cotton for them under the threat of a whip? Are there any States threatening to spread slavery westward?

The whole thing is asinine. Whether Lee was a traitor or an American hero, whether any other Confederate veteran has a statue in a park or not, what possible difference does it make now??? There are people being held as slaves in Africa right now, at this very instant. There are hundreds of women that are abducted off our streets, drugged, and sold as sexual slaves every day, right here in River City. Why don't they channel their energies towards doing something about that?

I'll tell you why: because activism against current forms of slavery doesn't hold out the possibility of reparations like activism about slavery 150 years ago does. If somebody figures they can get a fat check from American society because their great-great-great-grandpa was born in a shack in Mississippi, that's something to campaign for. But slavery today? Pfft! Who cares? There's no profit in that.

The anti CSA needs to think about what it's doing. The Holocaust started in 1933, but is really unknown to most Americans outside of it's connection to the Second World War. There are victims, and perpetrators still alive, many camps are still standing, and we have video, and enough archive material to fill a house...and you know what? Holocaust denial is on the rise everywhere, including Germany, and Israel.

Not much remains attesting to the institution of slavery in the US, perhaps a few slave quarters have been preserved, no video, no victims, no perpetrators. Slavery for some reason is never really touched on outside of it's connection to the US Civil War, even though it was imported from the old world, and of course every native American tribe practiced slavery. If this current drive to eliminate history continues, then Slavery denial will grow, and in a hundred years, no one will believe it ever existed in the US.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Why is the Left trying to eradicate evidence of something that ended over 150 years ago? What possible difference does it make now? Is the Army of Northern Virginia a viable threat to American society today? Are there any slave owners in the South who are still forcing Black people to pick cotton for them under the threat of a whip? Are there any States threatening to spread slavery westward?

The whole thing is asinine. Whether Lee was a traitor or an American hero, whether any other Confederate veteran has a statue in a park or not, what possible difference does it make now??? There are people being held as slaves in Africa right now, at this very instant. There are hundreds of women that are abducted off our streets, drugged, and sold as sexual slaves every day, right here in River City. Why don't they channel their energies towards doing something about that?

I'll tell you why: because activism against current forms of slavery doesn't hold out the possibility of reparations like activism about slavery 150 years ago does. If somebody figures they can get a fat check from American society because their great-great-great-grandpa was born in a shack in Mississippi, that's something to campaign for. But slavery today? Pfft! Who cares? There's no profit in that.

Should US government buildings fly the British flag and have statues of George II and Cornwallis?

That's why.

 

[Wolseley]

Should US government buildings fly the British flag and have statues of George II and Cornwallis?

That's why.

I know what you're saying. But maybe we should try to remember that every one of those Confederate soldiers, from Generals right on down to the lowliest drummer boy, had to take an oath before they were discharged: they had to swear to never take up arms against the United States again, and to obey the laws under the Constitution and the Union occupational forces, until such time as their states could be re-admitted to the Union. I like to take the tack that after the war was over and the South defeated, those Confederate veterans raised their hands and became Americans again, just as they had been before secession began.

Another thing is, not every Confederate was a wild-eyed, fire-eating slave owner. I can understand objecting to a statue (if there are any) of Nathan Bedford Forrest or William Quantrill; but why pick on Lee? The man hated the war, he hated the division, he hated what he felt he had to do. He agonized over whether to join the North or the South, and despite having his home appropriated by the Union Army (today it is known as Arlington National Cemetery), he never bore any rancor towards the North; he just wanted to put the war behind him.

 

[Michie]

As to slavery, before the Civil War Lee condemned it in private correspondence, viewing it as an unmitigated evil. While not an abolitionist he hoped that Christianity and education would eventually end slavery.

Pursuant to the terms of his father-in-law’s tangled pro se will, he manumitted his father-in-law’s slaves.


For years prior to the Civil War, Lee and his wife financially supported black families in Liberia, part of their efforts to encourage freeing slaves to participate in setting up a free black state in Liberia. Lee and his wife led by example, freeing their slaves and offering to pay the expenses of all of his former slaves who wished to settle in Liberia.

Lee was in favor of enlisting blacks in the Confederate army from the moment that it was proposed in 1864, and stated that in simple fairness the black soldiers should be guaranteed freedom for themselves and their families. His thoughts on black troops are set forth in these letters. I have little doubt that if it had been in his power Lee would have used black troops from the beginning of the war with freedom being their reward for volunteering to fight....

Continued below.
https://the-american-catholic.com/2021/09/10/109026/

 

[LizaMarie]

Rod Dreher has a good, thoughtful post about this(long readihttps://www.theamericanconservative.com/poh...d-dixie-down-robert-e-lee-civil-war/dcasts/ng) but worth it.

 

[LizaMarie]

The Day They Drove Old Dixie Down - The American Conservative

 

[Silverback]

As to slavery, before the Civil War Lee condemned it in private correspondence, viewing it as an unmitigated evil. While not an abolitionist he hoped that Christianity and education would eventually end slavery.

Pursuant to the terms of his father-in-law’s tangled pro se will, he manumitted his father-in-law’s slaves.


For years prior to the Civil War, Lee and his wife financially supported black families in Liberia, part of their efforts to encourage freeing slaves to participate in setting up a free black state in Liberia. Lee and his wife led by example, freeing their slaves and offering to pay the expenses of all of his former slaves who wished to settle in Liberia.

Lee was in favor of enlisting blacks in the Confederate army from the moment that it was proposed in 1864, and stated that in simple fairness the black soldiers should be guaranteed freedom for themselves and their families. His thoughts on black troops are set forth in these letters. I have little doubt that if it had been in his power Lee would have used black troops from the beginning of the war with freedom being their reward for volunteering to fight....

Continued below.
https://the-american-catholic.com/2021/09/10/109026/

I don't know if the slaves he "inherited" from his father in law, were freed immediately, or if it was at a later date.

If you read the transcript of General Lee's testimony before Congress (after the war) he felt that black folks were of lesser intelligence than whites,

Additionally, he felt that blacks should not be enfranchised until they, as a whole, could be educated.

For these reasons, his support for Liberia makes sense...it would be easier to ship former slaves back to Africa, than having to educate, and assimilate them.

General Lee, discouraged monuments to the confederacy.

I also believe that General lee despised the United States, and like Jefferson Davis took that hatred to the grave.

 

[BrAndreyu]

Why is the Left trying to eradicate evidence of something that ended over 150 years ago?

Because that's part of the Maoist revolution against the "four Olds": Old ideas, Old Habits, Old culture, and Old Customs. It's the same reason why they are trying to purge the founding fathers and every reminder that Whites built this country into what it is.

Also, American blacks don't like being reminded of the fact that they (mostly) literally descend from conquered tribes who were sold into slavery by stronger, conquering Africans to the evil White man. It's an attempt to erase Whites from American history and goes hand in hand with the woke movement and all of the bitter hatred of Whites that is being propagated by turds like Ibram X Kendi and Ta-Nahesi Coates.

Going around with their hands out screaming "GIBS-MUH-DAT!" because of slavery that existed 150 years ago is only part of it, as most blacks won't see a dime and many Whites in America were not here when slavery was a thing, but they'll still have their property expropriated and given to blacks or illegal Mexicans for the purposes of "racial justice". Whites have to be punished for being successful and Asians eventually will be too, as the woke movement is already calling Asians "White-adjacent" and demanding that they have higher standards for entering universities than blacks have.

 

[Wolseley]

 

[BrAndreyu]

Discriminating against anyone for their race is wrong, it's just that we are in the middle of a Maoist cultural revolution in the US that has it's roots in the black power movement & their movement is based on a deep-seated, burning hatred of Whites. I personally will never apologize for being created White. I had no choice in the matter whatsoever and who I am is a person with dignity and value in the eyes of Almighty God.

My family wasn't even here when slavery was a thing. We didn't get here until the 1920s and my grandparents lived in an ethnic ghetto in Reading, PA as children and were treated poorly by other Whites for being immigrants. The difference is that I am not walking around with my hand out, shouting "GIBS MUH DAT!" as a result of the discrimination my grandparents endured.

 

[Silverback]

Because that's part of the Maoist revolution against the "four Olds": Old ideas, Old Habits, Old culture, and Old Customs. It's the same reason why they are trying to purge the founding fathers and every reminder that Whites built this country into what it is.

Also, American blacks don't like being reminded of the fact that they (mostly) literally descend from conquered tribes who were sold into slavery by stronger, conquering Africans to the evil White man. It's an attempt to erase Whites from American history and goes hand in hand with the woke movement and all of the bitter hatred of Whites that is being propagated by turds like Ibram X Kendi and Ta-Nahesi Coates.

Going around with their hands out screaming "GIBS-MUH-DAT!" because of slavery that existed 150 years ago is only part of it, as most blacks won't see a dime and many Whites in America were not here when slavery was a thing, but they'll still have their property expropriated and given to blacks or illegal Mexicans for the purposes of "racial justice". Whites have to be punished for being successful and Asians eventually will be too, as the woke movement is already calling Asians "White-adjacent" and demanding that they have higher standards for entering universities than blacks have.

In all honesty...you are correct, this the same thing that happened in South Africa, "everything is racist" there are two differences though:

1. Non Hispanic Whites are still the Majority, this was not the case in South Africa.

2. White Americans, as a whole, are not as resilient as White South Africans.

Where does this leave us? it's a matter of time until real violence takes place...then we will know.