Good News, Really?

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guuila

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Does God owe you heaven? If not, why do believe you should go there?

I would say if Christ paid for a person's sins in full, God owes that person heaven. Otherwise, Christ's blood is cheap and is to no avail. This is why your theology makes no sense. Christ suffered and atoned for multitudes of people who will end up atoning for their sins in hell. Christ's death wasn't sufficient. God the Father rejects Christ's payment on their behalf and says, "Nope. Their own blood will be required. Yours didn't get it done Son." Yeah, pretty scary theology.

A sinner in clothes in the garb of their flesh having not been atoned for obviously does not deserve heaven.
 
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janxharris

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So you can't make yourself like something you hate? Why not? I thought you had free will?

I'm not a Calvinist because it is false rather than because I dislike it. One cannot put one's faith in something one considers to be false; especially when its falsehood is abundantly evident.

Please continue to enlighten me if I am wrong.
 
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janxharris

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Why do you need to resort to an analogy?

If all men deserve hell, and God gives some of them mercy, that means some end up in hell which they deserve, and some end up in heaven which is mercy.

Can you tell me who receives injustice here?

The analogy deals with this adequately Skala. Please take a look.
 
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Skala

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Well it's shame you wont look at it. It explains what seems to be a complicated issue.

:)

janx, some students getting a bad grade isn't quite the same as a criminal getting his just punishment for his crimes.

All men deserve hell.

God saves some.

He owes mercy to nobody. But the ones he gives mercy to are saved. The ones he does not give mercy to simply get the justice they deserve.

Who here receives injustice? The ones in hell do not get injustice - they get justice.

And around and around we go....
 
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janxharris

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janx, some students getting a bad grade isn't quite the same as a criminal getting his just punishment for his crimes.

All men deserve hell.

God saves some.

He owes mercy to nobody. But the ones he gives mercy to are saved. The ones he does not give mercy to simply get the justice they deserve.

Who here receives injustice? The ones in hell do not get injustice - they get justice.

And around and around we go....

Yes, around and around we go.

If you can't provide a good reason for this seemingly arbitrary decision you say God made then it remains unjust.
 
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janxharris

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janx, some students getting a bad grade isn't quite the same as a criminal getting his just punishment for his crimes.

All men deserve hell.

God saves some.

He owes mercy to nobody. But the ones he gives mercy to are saved. The ones he does not give mercy to simply get the justice they deserve.

Who here receives injustice? The ones in hell do not get injustice - they get justice.

And around and around we go....

If you were to ask a number of people if they thought this was fair I think we all know what the answer would be.

What you describe is quite unfathomable if it is to be applied to God.
'Tis still very saddening :(
 
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Skala

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Yes, around and around we go.

If you can't provide a good reason for this seemingly arbitrary decision you say God made then it remains unjust.

So it's unjust of God to put people in hell for their sins?

The Bible gives a great reason for God saving people: to the praise of the glory of his grace.

I'm sorry God's mercy and grace being glorified is not good enough for you.
 
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Skala

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If you were to ask a number of people if they thought this was fair I think we all know what the answer would be.

What you describe is quite unfathomable if it is to be applied to God.
'Tis still very saddening :(

It is amazing that you don't see how your argument works even more so against your own view.

In my view God ensures that many people are saved
In your view he ensures that nobody is saved

Tis very saddening.
 
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ForceofTime

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Perhaps we should use the current analogy:

A teacher sets homework for her students but nobody completes the work on time. She extends the deadline to some of them but not all. No reason is given for her decision. Not surprisingly, those to whom she did not extend the deadline feel they have been dealt with unfairly.

Does this help?

Peace and grace of our Lord Jesus be with you, Janxharris!

God tells Pharoah that at midnight the all the firstborn will die and then hardens his heart. God tells only Israel about the Passover Lamb and that the Destroying Angel would pass over them when it saw the blood.

Did God deal unfairly with Egypt?
 
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janxharris

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So it's unjust of God to put people in hell for their sins?

The Bible gives a great reason for God saving people: to the praise of the glory of his grace.

I'm sorry God's mercy and grace being glorified is not good enough for you.

This might seem a little heartless if one considers the reprobates.

Not forgetting that the reprobate and the elect are just about as evil as each other.
Sorry, but it just does not sit right.

Jesus said, ' Let not your hearts be troubled...' but Calvinism leaves me feeling extremely troubled.
 
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janxharris

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Peace and grace of our Lord Jesus be with you, Janxharris!

God tells Pharoah that at midnight the all the firstborn will die and then hardens his heart. God tells only Israel about the Passover Lamb and that the Destroying Angel would pass over them when it saw the blood.

Did God deal unfairly with Egypt?

And to you too ForceofTime.

I guess not. Do we have to assume that this slaughter was unto damnation? Just wondering...
 
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ForceofTime

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I guess not. Do we have to assume that this slaughter was unto damnation? Just wondering...

No, I don't think it is necessary; but it was the method itself about which I was curious on how you viewed it.

May the love of our Father abide in you this our Lord's day! :wave:
 
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janxharris

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No, I don't think it is necessary; but it was the method itself about which I was curious on how you viewed it.

May the love of our Father abide in you this our Lord's day! :wave:

:)

It is the fact that unconditional election is unto damnation that is the troubling issue; that the reprobate hasn't a hope.

Foreknowledge on the other hand is quite different and not troubling. Even though God knows all, mankind can be assured that there is hope.
 
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janxharris

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So it's unjust of God to put people in hell for their sins?

The Bible gives a great reason for God saving people: to the praise of the glory of his grace.

I'm sorry God's mercy and grace being glorified is not good enough for you.

We see things so very, very differently.
 
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Skala

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This might seem a little heartless if one considers the reprobates.

Not forgetting that the reprobate and the elect are just about as evil as each other.
Sorry, but it just does not sit right.

Jesus said, ' Let not your hearts be troubled...' but Calvinism leaves me feeling extremely troubled.

Yes, it is quite amazing that God would show mercy to people who deserve hell just as much as everyone else.

It's called amazing grace, Janx.

I'm not sure why God having mercy on multitudes that should go to hell troubles you.
 
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