"Good" in the Greek?

[HypnoToad]

For this question, I'm looking for someone well versed in the Koine Greek of the New Testament.

I'm wondering about the meaning of "good" in a few passages - Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18, and Luke 18:19 - where it says God is "good".

All three have "agathos", and is defined as "good (in any sense, often as noun)"
This is the lexicon I'm using:
Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results
see entry 18

What I'm wondering is if the Greek indicates whether it is an adjective or a noun, or does the Greek allow for either and we just have to use context to figure it out?

 

[Hidden In Him]

For this question, I'm looking for someone well versed in the Koine Greek of the New Testament.

I'm wondering about the meaning of "good" in a few passages - Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18, and Luke 18:19 - where it says God is "good".

All three have "agathos", and is defined as "good (in any sense, often as noun)"
This is the lexicon I'm using:
Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results
see entry 18

What I'm wondering is if the Greek indicates whether it is an adjective or a noun, or does the Greek allow for either and we just have to use context to figure it out?

It's a simple adjective in all three cases.

I'm curious, why were you thinking it might make a difference if it were an adjective or a noun?

 

[HypnoToad]

It's a simple adjective in all three cases.

How are you determining that? Is it the way it's spelled, its position in relation to other words, or something else?

I'm curious, why were you thinking it might make a difference if it were an adjective or a noun?

It has to do with a philosophical view of what God is and how that might relate to moral standards.

 

[Hidden In Him]

How are you determining that? Is it the way it's spelled, it's position in relation to other words, or something else?

It's the adjective αγαθός in all three cases. The only noun form used in Koine from this family of words, at least in the NT, was ἀγαθωσύνη, which essentially meant "goodness."

It has to do with a philosophical view of what God is and how that might relate to moral standards.

Ok, still don't quite follow, but I was just curious.

 

[HypnoToad]

It's the adjective αγαθός in all three cases. The only noun form used in Koine from this family of words, at least in the NT, was ἀγαθωσύνη, which essentially meant "goodness."

Ok, thanks.

Ok, still don't quite follow, but I was just curious.

I was being deliberately broad/unspecific as I'm not really interested in getting into the philosophy thing here.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I was being deliberately broad/unspecific as I'm not really interested in getting into the philosophy thing here.

Not a problem.

Blessings!
HiH

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Ok, thanks.


I was being deliberately broad/unspecific as I'm not really interested in getting into the philosophy thing here.

Juxtaposition to the good is the bad. Not up on Koinoinia at the moment but I think if you could find the noun or adjective to bad that may allow for an understanding of good.

 

[Radagast]

What I'm wondering is if the Greek indicates whether it is an adjective or a noun

@Hidden In Him is correct, it's technically an adjective, but that doesn't necessarily mean what you think.

In Matthew 19:17, for example, the first "good" ("... about the good," with the definite article) means either "the good man" or "the good one" or "the good thing." Grammar alone can't say which, but it's definitely being used as a noun. A good translation would be the ESV: "And he said to him, 'Why do you ask me about what is good?'"

I don't think you can build any kind of theological/philosophical position here without understanding the Greek.

And in any case, we already have theological/philosophical positions on God. I don't really think we need a new one.

 

[HypnoToad]

@Hidden In Him is correct, it's technically an adjective, but that doesn't necessarily mean what you think.

In Matthew 19:17, for example, the first "good" ("... about the good," with the definite article) means either "the good man" or "the good one" or "the good thing." Grammar alone can't say which, but it's definitely being used as a noun. A good translation would be the ESV: "And he said to him, 'Why do you ask me about what is good?'"

I don't think you can build any kind of theological/philosophical position here without understanding the Greek.

ok

And in any case, we already have theological/philosophical positions on God. I don't really think we need a new one.

You can believe as you wish, but I for one think it's possible to still find out something new about God.

 

[Radagast]

You can believe as you wish, but I for one think it's possible to still find out something new about God.

That's generally what heretics say.

 

[HypnoToad]

That's generally what heretics say.

That's generally how the Pharisees viewed the new information Jesus brought.

 

[Radagast]

That's generally how the Pharisees viewed the new information Jesus brought.

But you're not Jesus.

 

[HypnoToad]

But you're not Jesus.

Wow, thanks for the news flash there, Captain Obvious.

 

[MarleneJ]

"Good" is an adjectival noun. That mean it is an adjective, being used as a noun. We do this in English, too!

"ὁ δὲ εἶπεν αὐτῷ· Τί με ἐρωτᾷς περὶ τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ; εἷς ἐστιν ὁ ἀγαθός· εἰ δὲ θέλεις εἰς τὴν ζωὴν εἰσελθεῖν, τήρησον τὰς ἐντολάς." Matt 19:17 Greek

"He said to him, 'Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.'" Matt 19:17 NET

"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt 19:17 KJV

The Greek makes it very clear that this is an adjectival noun, because both times above, ἀγαθός, is preceded by a definite article. Either τοῦ "tou" (genitive singular - masculine or neuter) or ὁ "ho" (predicate nominative, masculine singular.)

Because of stylistic considerations, in English, we do not say "the good" in either place in this passage. (Although it can be said, such as, "I did it for the good of all.). In this verse, περὶ τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ has the word περὶ peri, in it. That is translated in the genitive as "concerning, about." Notice that the more modern version uses "about" - Why do you ask me ABOUT what is good? (The semi-colon is a question mark in Koine Greek!) Yet, KJV omits for no apparent reason. I simply should be there. Modern translations, I find, always have less translational problem!

Finally, just to note, τήρησον or tereson, is in the Aorist Imperative Active. That means that keeping Jesus' commands are not optional! We must obey God, or we will not enter into eternal life. Now, I don't believe we save ourselves, but God gives us the power to obey those commands. Therefore, we need to walk with the Holy Spirit all the time, not just when we "feel" super spiritual.