Good Guys with Hands beat Good Guys with Guns

rambot

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Occams Barber

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Twice as many mass shooting events end with Good Guy's hands than good guys with guns.​
Any thoughts on that?​
Can we get this part of the article stapled to CFs front door?

Based on ALERRT’s analysis, out of 249 attacks that ended before police arrived on the scene, civilians shot at the attacker 22 times—less than the number of civilians who physically subdued the gunmen, which happened 42 times.
OB
 
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Fantine

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It is absolutely true. Our family has never used guns, but when my son was a freshman in college he came home and got together with a few friends. The parents had gone up to Chicago and so it was just four guys getting together and yes doing some drinking.
A fifth guy who had gone to high school with them saw the lights on in the house and the cars outside. The fifth guy had started using drugs in high school, dropped out, and progressed into dealing. He walked into the house to see four of his old classmates.
One of my son's friends started making fun of him, calling him a loser and a drug dealer. The fifth guy pulled out a gun and held it to my son's friend's head.
Because everyone had been drinking I am so grateful that there were no other guns involved. My son, who was and is a great communicator, started talking to the 5th guy. He calmed him down. They were able to resolve the differences and soon afterwards the fifth guy left.
Well I am not proud that a bunch of 19-year-olds were drinking, I was very proud of my son for keeping his cool and negotiating a happy ending to this mess. PS, The host of the party wound up with a social work degree, and has done tons of good for people in his life.

My son has turned his networking and communication skills into a thriving business, and he has more friends than anyone I know.

The guy with the gun appears to have straightened out and is recently married. My son gave him a FB like.

The alcoholic friend? Dysfunctional in college now a computer genius with a modest fortune, wife, three kids.
 
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Fantine

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I noticed that the Left-Wing biased source in the OP didn't provide a link to this purported analysis.
After our real-life experience, related above, I am more convinced than ever. I could also mention that we know several people who committed suicide with guns. My husband had two IT employees, one going through a divorce, one suffering from depression, who shot themselves to death. My son had a high school acquaintance who shot himself because he didn't get an A and a girl refused to go to the Valentine dance. (I later learned from his neighbor that an older brother had also shot himself.) Friend's brother-in-law...so many needless deaths.

A water aerobics buddy had a drug-addicted son who shot and killed his estranged wife and then himself. Nephews had friends who were killed by hunters who didn't see them in their camouflage gear.

Son had a promising high school student who kept up with him. He joined the Marines. Got PTSD. Committed suicide.
I never met anyone who saved themselves (or anyone else) with a gun.
 
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HARK!

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After our real-life experience, related above, I am more convinced than ever. I could also mention that we know several people who committed suicide with guns. My husband had two IT employees, one going through a divorce, one suffering from depression, who shot themselves to death. My son had a high school acquaintance who shot himself because he didn't get an A and a girl refused to go to the Valentine dance. (I later learned from his neighbor that an older brother had also shot himself.) Friend's brother-in-law...so many needless deaths.

A water aerobics buddy had a drug-addicted son who shot and killed his estranged wife and then himself. Nephews had friends who were killed by hunters who didn't see them in their camouflage gear.

Son had a promising high school student who kept up with him. He joined the Marines. Got PTSD. Committed suicide.
I never met anyone who saved themselves (or anyone else) with a gun.
Your anecdotal accounts don't help me with reviewing the data.
 
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SimplyMe

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Your anecdotal accounts don't help me with reviewing the data.
I suspect that this is what you are looking for.

It might also interest people to know about the research organization: "The Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training (ALERRT) Center at Texas State University was created in 2002 as a partnership between Texas State University, the San Marcos, Texas Police Department and the Hays County, Texas Sheriff’s Office to address the need for active shooter response training for first responders. In 2013, ALERRT at Texas State was named the National Standard in Active Shooter Response Training by the FBI."
 
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HARK!

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I suspect that this is what you are looking for.

It might also interest people to know about the research organization: "The Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training (ALERRT) Center at Texas State University was created in 2002 as a partnership between Texas State University, the San Marcos, Texas Police Department and the Hays County, Texas Sheriff’s Office to address the need for active shooter response training for first responders. In 2013, ALERRT at Texas State was named the National Standard in Active Shooter Response Training by the FBI."
That doesn't look like data to me.
 
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SimplyMe

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Did you click the "All Active Attacks" tab at the top? You might also be interested in the "Event List" tab, though you'll need to follow the links for the attacks from each year.

I gave the link to the website, I thought people would be smart enough to find the information on those pages that they might be interested in, and if they wanted the cumulative data or to read about each attack separately.
 
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HARK!

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Did you click the "All Active Attacks" tab at the top? You might also be interested in the "Event List" tab, though you'll need to follow the links for the attacks from each year.

I gave the link to the website, I thought people would be smart enough to find the information on those pages that they might be interested in, and if they wanted the cumulative data or to read about each attack separately.
I'm not interested in going on a wild goose chase, to do the Slate's, nor the OP's homework, to support their claims, with assertions from a .org, at a Liberal college.

I can come up with my own skewed data to support my own bias.
 
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SimplyMe

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I'm not interested in going on a wild goose chase, to do the Slate's, nor the OP's homework, to support their claims, with assertions from a .org, at a Liberal college.

I can come up with my own skewed data to support my own bias.
I'm curious, what is it that makes Texas State University liberal? Is it the fact that they allow students and professors, who have a permit, to carry guns on campus? I'm guessing the San Marcos Police Department and the Hays County Sheriff's Office are also extreme liberals? Texas State University is not a liberal university and I'd be shocked if you found many (if any) liberals in that police department and sheriff's office.

Maybe you decided that a logical fallacy was easier than to actually examine their data (which is on the linked webpage).
 
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HARK!

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I'm curious, what is it that makes Texas State University liberal?
I see now that I had Texas State University (TXST) confused with The University of Texas at Austin (UT).
Maybe you decided that a logical fallacy was easier than to actually examine their data (which is on the linked webpage).
Or maybe it has nothing to do with your false allegations, and it's just like I said.

I'm not interested in a wild goose chase.

See: Burden of Proof
 
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hislegacy

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Twice as many mass shooting events end with Good Guy's hands than good guys with guns.​
Any thoughts on that?​
The vast majority of mass shootings happen in 'gun free' zones where only the shooter brings in a weapon.

Gun owners who are lawful do not. - That is a major reason why good guys with hands best good guys with guns, that is all they have.

That is not even considered in the study - I wonder why?
 
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rambot

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I noticed that the Left-Wing biased source in the OP didn't provide a link to this purported analysis.
These are figures the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center at Texas State University puts together, working alongside the FBI.
There is the source.
No link.


Strange that you would be so put off by this data that is the summary of thr critical response.
 
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rambot

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I am utterly confounded by the critical response to this article.
Running away from data provided repeating burden of proof; As though what is commonly provided on chriatian forums gets any kind of citation....

For example:
The vast majority of mass shootings happen in 'gun free' zones where only the shooter brings in a weapon.

Gun owners who are lawful do not. - That is a major reason why good guys with hands best good guys with guns, that is all they have.

That is not even considered in the study - I wonder why?
Didn't read the study
Didn't cite own sources.


Bur kudos b2cause at Least he was willing to address the content od the study.
 
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hislegacy

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I am utterly confounded by the critical response to this article.
Running away from data provided repeating burden of proof; As though what is commonly provided on chriatian forums gets any kind of citation....

For example:

Didn't read the study
Didn't cite own sources.


Bur kudos b2cause at Least he was willing to address the content od the study.
Please correct me and show where the study showed how many of the shootings were in gun free zones.

According to the link:

These are figures the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center at Texas State University puts together, working alongside the FBI. Hunter Martaindale, ALERRT’s director of research, told me civilians are responsible for taking down an attacker—including in knife and vehicle attacks—a little over 10 percent of the time. “To me that’s a pretty big number that shows that their actions have an impact,” Martaindale told me.​

The numbers are not exclusive to mass shooters.

I have read the link three times now - there is no mention or correlation of where the mass shootings.

May I suggest before you attempt to castigate me for asking a question, you read your own link....
 
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Brihaha

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hislegacy

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Twice as many mass shooting events end with Good Guy's hands than good guys with guns.​
Any thoughts on that?​
The OP asked:

I responded:
The vast majority of mass shootings happen in 'gun free' zones where only the shooter brings in a weapon.

Gun owners who are lawful do not. - That is a major reason why good guys with hands best good guys with guns, that is all they have.

That is not even considered in the study - I wonder why?
it is a legitimate observation and question.

Schools - gun free zones
Bars - gun free zones
Most work places - gun free zones.

Eliminate those three elements and how many mass shootings happening other than gun free zones?


That is a viable reason why twice as many end with good guys hands rather than guns.
 
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hislegacy

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Yet many of us enjoy reading and learning about others' experiences. I know I do.
I have carried since 1980 when I turned 21 and was assigned to the DOD. in 42 years of gun ownership, my weapon has killed exactly no one. I was fortunate to not have the need to draw it except five times on duty and three times through the years since. In those three times a rape was stopped, and two violent assaults were ended.

Suicide is horrible - the act is the issue more so than the instrumentation. Death by asphyxiation is the second highest method of ending a life - shall we regulate rope?
 
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