Good Creationist Biological/Biochemistry/Genetics Reading?

Blessed Each Day

Active Member
Site Supporter
Oct 14, 2017
355
473
33
Georgia
✟69,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Can someone well-versed in the science of creationism provide me with a good reading(s) to combat common evolutionist claims? I stumbled across this site CCC No. 3: "Horizontal Evolution vs. Vertical Evolution" – Jack Scanlan which is basically some kid saying something to combat creationist claims of horizontal evolution but denying vertical evolution, the two terms of which I am familiar but am unable to scientifically back up on a biological/genetic basis (haven't taken biology in over a decade.) I also came across this little diddy http://www.darwinwasright.org/common_descent.html and from the URL name I'm sure you can detect where they stand, but I basically wanted to know any good theological readings to back up creationism with solid scientific principles (as evolutionists only seem to respond to scientific proof), and I don't see myself being able to get across to any of them with "You need to seek Jesus."

That's a tall order, and I appreciate any and all help, I just like to get some scientific information to help back up what the Gospel says. God bless!
 

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,678
68
Tolworth
✟369,679.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Try evolution news and views, its an ID site but is good on science for ID.
Answersingenesis abd creation .com are good science and biblical aplication.

Treat your discussion in the same way atheist treat Christians debating the existance of God. They claim it is up to Christians to prove there is a God.
Do the samething to evolutionist, keep asking for scientific proof that as that article says, a fish turned into a dog. What evidence do they produce.
 
Upvote 0

Blessed Each Day

Active Member
Site Supporter
Oct 14, 2017
355
473
33
Georgia
✟69,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Try evolution news and views, its an ID site but is good on science for ID.
Answersingenesis abd creation .com are good science and biblical aplication.

Treat your discussion in the same way atheist treat Christians debating the existance of God. They claim it is up to Christians to prove there is a God.
Do the samething to evolutionist, keep asking for scientific proof that as that article says, a fish turned into a dog. What evidence do they produce.
Okay great, I will check those out shortly. Yeah, I always say the onus is on them to provide something to expound on these claims that are actually really radical when you think about it ("There is no intelligent designer, we all came from chance.") You're absolutely right as well, and that's where I came up with that second link in the OP; I wanted to see what the writer's evidence was for the common ancestor. If the post wasn't about a decade old, I would ask him just that. Thank you for your help, time to get to reading.
 
Upvote 0

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,678
68
Tolworth
✟369,679.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I will check those out shortly
You mean you weren't aware of Ken Ham etc

For theisic evolutionists there is 'reasons to believe'
For general proof of Christianity try coldcasechristianity, for logical reasons try reasonablefaith and to keep an eye on what is available try 'thepoachedegg'
 
Upvote 0

sfs

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2003
10,728
7,756
64
Massachusetts
✟342,316.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I basically wanted to know any good theological readings to back up creationism with solid scientific principles (as evolutionists only seem to respond to scientific proof), and I don't see myself being able to get across to any of them with "You need to seek Jesus."
Your instincts are right, at least where it concerns those of us evolutionists who (a) are scientists and (b) already know Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

Blessed Each Day

Active Member
Site Supporter
Oct 14, 2017
355
473
33
Georgia
✟69,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Nope, up until quite recently I was content to just read the Bible and do some study plans here and there. Recently, with the increasing correlation between technological advancements and distance from the Divine Creator, I felt called to read more and more about the scientific/philosophic side, and came across Christian Apologetics by way of @NurseAbigail, and literally felt like I stumbled upon a treasure chest of valued information, I just have to decipher it all and organize it coherently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NurseAbigail
Upvote 0

Blessed Each Day

Active Member
Site Supporter
Oct 14, 2017
355
473
33
Georgia
✟69,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Your instincts are right, at least where it concerns those of us evolutionists who (a) are scientists and (b) already know Jesus.
My apologies, I should have said "atheistic evolutionists" in my OP ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: sfs
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,803
5,656
Utah
✟721,398.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Can someone well-versed in the science of creationism provide me with a good reading(s) to combat common evolutionist claims? I stumbled across this site CCC No. 3: "Horizontal Evolution vs. Vertical Evolution" – Jack Scanlan which is basically some kid saying something to combat creationist claims of horizontal evolution but denying vertical evolution, the two terms of which I am familiar but am unable to scientifically back up on a biological/genetic basis (haven't taken biology in over a decade.) I also came across this little diddy http://www.darwinwasright.org/common_descent.html and from the URL name I'm sure you can detect where they stand, but I basically wanted to know any good theological readings to back up creationism with solid scientific principles (as evolutionists only seem to respond to scientific proof), and I don't see myself being able to get across to any of them with "You need to seek Jesus."

That's a tall order, and I appreciate any and all help, I just like to get some scientific information to help back up what the Gospel says. God bless!

*****

A New You Ministry - Revealing God's Way to a New Life! - Creation Vs Evolution

They are videos ... but perhaps they have written or transcripts available.

They look and compare the two beliefs - creation/evolution.

This one is pretty deep;


They are all very informative.

God Bless
 
Upvote 0

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Site Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,192
9,201
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,158,469.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When we worry about creation versions we can miss something more essential and foundational, by far. The only sound basis for faith that lasts and is acceptable --

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

This is the only way your faith will make it through the storms of life.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Blessed Each Day

Active Member
Site Supporter
Oct 14, 2017
355
473
33
Georgia
✟69,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
When we worry about creation versions we can miss something more crucial. The only sound basis for faith that lasts.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

This is the only way your faith will make it through the storms of life.
I appreciate your response (great verses by the way.) I'm not concerned with the different creation versions, I'm concerned with being able to learn the scientific basis with which I can try to get across to atheistic "intellectuals" who think that because we (read: "by the grace of God") have made strides in medicine and technology that we have now become our own Gods, that it makes more sense that we came from inorganic matter than a Master Creator, and that essence resides in matter (or existence precedes essence however you'd like to call it.)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Site Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,192
9,201
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,158,469.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I appreciate your response (great verses by the way.) I'm not concerned with the different creation versions, I'm concerned with being able to learn the scientific basis with which I can try to get across to atheistic "intellectuals" who think that because we (read: "by the grace of God") have made strides in medicine and technology that we have now become our own Gods, that it makes more sense that we came from inorganic matter than a Master Creator, and that essence resides in matter (or existence precedes essence however you'd like to call it.)

Well, several things are needed I think, having talked with atheists a great many times now over the last 6 years. First we should never respond in anger. And this will come up, because a favorite tactic is to be insulting, so as to shut down real discussion.

We really need to be talking to anyone at any time only in love for neighbor.

One big aid is to pray with faith the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6 as a preparation (which is needed to do also just as being a Christian), with real faith as you pray. Those are basic right-place things we all need all the time regardless of whether we are trying to open a door for someone or just meeting a neighbor.

Atheists usually presume naturalism, sometimes without even knowing it.

Naturalism (a typical assumption, even if unconscious) directly implies God doesn't exist as in scripture. Naturalism presumes all that exists, including a God also then, is only inside nature, an object/thing of nature, subject to nature and limited by the laws of nature (physics), etc.
This assumption of course assumes that God does not exist as able to create nature, but to assume it to argue God doesn't exist is then simply circular reasoning.
God as we know anything about Him, from scripture, is the creator (of nature), and that implies God cannot be subject to nature, but must be independent of nature or above nature, the lord of nature. So naturalism presumptions aren't a logical way to consider God as we know of Him from scripture.
One can't teach anyone anything like this by saying 'you're wrong' in any way, but instead it would have to be part of a friendly discussion.

Atheists that want to see humans achieve immortality through technology may actually be someone who could be interested, if the discussion is friendly, to find out that eternal life is a gift given though Christ, the one Who taught us to "love one another". But this is usually a long-term seed for them to know about. One that could matter later for them, to know.

The atheist thinking most common is to believe there is no afterlife. And....often we will see them use some form of that presumption to make some suggestion or logical argument that God doesn't exist.

For example: "If there is a God, then why do innocent young children die in earthquakes or by disease?"

Premise -- mortal death is final, there is no eternal life. Logic -- since there is no eternal life, then that death of an innocent shows 'God is evil', or could not be real.

But, once you see the assumption, often an unconscious one -- that death is final; there is no afterlife -- then you can see any implication/conclusion about God is merely circular reasoning. Presuming death is final is presuming God doesn't exist to begin with.

Often of course atheists have a version of the Old Testament in their minds which they often think they know better than believers (and of course many believers indeed have not read through the Old Testament). Pretty much 99%-100% of the time this presumed knowing they think they have of the Old Testament is erroneous in some key ways, often by taking some verses or situations out of context, which is easy to do in many places, due to how sometimes the full context isn't even in that same book of the Bible (example: Sodom was destroyed actually for the list of reasons given in Ezekiel 16:49-50, even though the destruction is in Genesis chapters 18-19.) So atheists often really do believe, delusionally, that they have a good knowledge of the Bible, merely because they saw some dramatic verses out of context, or read perhaps 2% or 15% of the Old Testament, or read more, but didn't see everything there, etc.

Because of these factors, it's pointless to argue details about evolution. If there is no afterlife, if death is final -- if God doesn't exist as the assumption -- then how could God even manage evolution for instance in the commonplace view (of some believers) of Genesis chapter 1 as symbolic?

It can help some atheists or agnostics though to find out that about 1/2 of Christian believers in God think the Earth is old, as it appears to be in accepted science, and think God managed evolution, also in accord with the predominately accepted science. So, talking about evolution to an atheist past merely pointing out God could use and/or manage evolution is going to be just unheard. To merely argue science only makes one seem disreputable.

After all we don't believe: God could not use evolution.

That's not our faith.

Instead we believe: God is the creator of the Universe and thus all in it, and that He sent His only begotten Son, Christ Jesus, to save us from our wrongs, and that Christ rose from the dead, and through Christ we can be born anew, and by faith and following Christ we will be given the ultimate gift, eternal life.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Blessed Each Day

Active Member
Site Supporter
Oct 14, 2017
355
473
33
Georgia
✟69,005.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Well, several things are needed I think, having talked with atheists a great many times now over the last 6 years. First we should never respond in anger. And this will come up, because a favorite tactic is to be insulting, so as to shut down real discussion.

We really need to be talking to anyone at any time only in love for neighbor.

One big aid is to pray with faith the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6 as a preparation (which is needed to do also just as being a Christian), with real faith as you pray. Those are basic right-place things we all need all the time regardless of whether we are trying to open a door for someone or just meeting a neighbor.

Atheists usually presume naturalism, sometimes without even knowing it.

Naturalism (a typical assumption, even if unconscious) directly implies God doesn't exist as in scripture. Naturalism presumes all that exists, including a God also then, is only inside nature, an object/thing of nature, subject to nature and limited by the laws of nature (physics), etc.
This assumption of course assumes that God does not exist as able to create nature, but to assume it to argue God doesn't exist is then simply circular reasoning.
God as we know anything about Him, from scripture, is the creator (of nature), and that implies God cannot be subject to nature, but must be independent of nature or above nature, the lord of nature. So naturalism presumptions aren't a logical way to consider God as we know of Him from scripture.
One can't teach anyone anything like this by saying 'your wrong' in any way, but instead it would have to be part of a friendly discussion.

Atheists that want to see humans achieve immortality through technology may actually be someone who could be interested, if the discussion is friendly, to find out that eternal life is a gift given though Christ, the one Who taught us to "love one another". But this is usually a long-term seed for them to know about. One that could matter later for them, to know.

The atheist thinking most common is to believe there is no afterlife. And....often we will see them use some form of that presumption to make some suggestion or logical argument that God doesn't exist.

For example: "If there is a God, then why do innocent young children die in earthquakes or by disease?"

Premise -- mortal death is final, there is no eternal life. Logic -- since there is no eternal life, then that death of an innocent shows 'God is evil', or could not be real.

But, once you see the assumption, often an unconscious one -- that death is final; there is no afterlife -- then you can see any implication/conclusion about God is merely circular reasoning. Presuming death is final is presuming God doesn't exist to begin with.

Often of course atheists have a version of the Old Testament in their minds which they often think they know better than believers (and of course many believers indeed have not read through the Old Testament). Pretty much 99%-100% of the time this presumed knowing they think they have of the Old Testament is erroneous in some key ways, often by taking some verses or situations out of context, which is easy to do in many places, due to how sometimes the full context isn't even in that same book of the Bible (example: Sodom was destroyed actually for the list of reasons given in Ezekiel 16:49-50, even though the destruction is in Genesis chapters 18-19.) So atheists often really do believe, delusionally, that they have a good knowledge of the Bible, merely because they saw some dramatic verses out of context, or read perhaps 2% or 15% of the Old Testament, or read more, but didn't see everything there, etc.

Because of these factors, it's pointless to argue details about evolution. If there is no afterlife, if death is final -- if God doesn't exist as the assumption -- then how could God even manage evolution for instance in the commonplace view (of some believers) of Genesis chapter 1 as symbolic?

It can help some atheists or agnostics though to find out that about 1/2 of Christian believers in God think the Earth is old, as it appears to be in accepted science, and think God managed evolution, also in accord with the predominately accepted science. So, talking about evolution to an atheist past merely pointing out God could use and/or manage evolution is going to be just unheard. To merely argue science only makes one seem disreputable.

After all we don't believe: God could not use evolution.

That's not our faith.

Instead we believe: God is the creator of the Universe and thus all in it, and that He sent His only begotten Son, Christ Jesus, to save us from our wrongs, and that Christ rose from the dead, and through Christ we can be born anew, and by faith and following Christ we will be given the ultimate give, eternal life.
Agreed on every point made (I really liked the circular argument, that's a very popular one) but my intention is no where near mere scientific argument, I would rather like to counter when I see others led astray with seemingly well-thought-out and articulate, scientific, naturalistic arguments. If they're reduced to the old, "You're a bible-thumping idiot", I can live with that. At least I tried, and I'll continue to pray for them. The science behind such facts, paired with corresponding Biblical verses and their contextual background is my ideal goal to be able to articulate God's unconditional love to others that may be vulnerable to big words delivered in an "enlightening" manner from those conveying the idea of "naturalism backed by science" as tried-and-true fact. I'm almost positive I've wandered from your main points and I apologize, but thank you for all your advice.

God bless!
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
That's a tall order, and I appreciate any and all help, I just like to get some scientific information to help back up what the Gospel says.

The scriptures describe the earth as "ancient" and even "everlasting"
so if you like "Literalness" as I do, then you start with that clear wording.
Even then I must admit that the earth is not "everlasting" by most
standards, so my "literalness" can't be total.


Bible Search: ancient mountains or hills
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Halbhh
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Creationist sites are not great for technical discussions, can't say I'm impressed with their biblical expositions either. What I do is scan the sites for articles and especially source material. You best source for genetics is the on going research of the secular scientists involved. Now paleontology is different, source material can be hard to track down. There is really no short cut to genetics, you have to do the background reading and sort out the technical issues. The good news it is doable and worth it. You can try Answers in Genesis, they have some interesting stuff. Ive always enjoyed Apologets press meself.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Can someone well-versed in the science of creationism provide me with a good reading(s) to combat common evolutionist claims? I stumbled across this site CCC No. 3: "Horizontal Evolution vs. Vertical Evolution" – Jack Scanlan which is basically some kid saying something to combat creationist claims of horizontal evolution but denying vertical evolution, the two terms of which I am familiar but am unable to scientifically back up on a biological/genetic basis (haven't taken biology in over a decade.) I also came across this little diddy Darwin was Right | All species share a common descent and from the URL name I'm sure you can detect where they stand, but I basically wanted to know any good theological readings to back up creationism with solid scientific principles (as evolutionists only seem to respond to scientific proof), and I don't see myself being able to get across to any of them with "You need to seek Jesus."

That's a tall order, and I appreciate any and all help, I just like to get some scientific information to help back up what the Gospel says. God bless!

Scientific evidence can only point to natural events.
That is what makes something scientific is when
somebody can reproduce the effect.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums