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Good article on how we forget at times the horrible effects of Communism

Discussion in 'History & Genealogy' started by Force, Sep 3, 2003.

  1. Force

    Force GO NOLES!!!!!!! 16 58

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    Monument to Murder
    by Radley Balko
    FoxNews

    One of the most powerful museums in Washington, D.C., is the Holocaust Memorial Museum. It’s the one site I always recommend to people visiting the city, even though it takes a couple of days to shake off the malaise that settles in after you’ve seen it.


    It’s a fitting memorial that accurately documents and catalogues the horrors of the Holocaust, without much propagandizing. It allows history to stand on its own. The events as they happened are quite enough. It’s time we had a similar museum to memorialize the devastation wrought by communism.

    Adolf Hitler has become the embodiment of human evil, yet he wasn’t the biggest killer of the last century. He didn’t even come in second. He was third, behind two communists, Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse-Tung.

    According to the historian R.J. Rummel, Hitler’s Nazis killed about 21million people between 1933 and 1945, (a figure that includes Roma gypsies, homosexuals, the handicapped, Poles, Russians, Jehova Witnesses and Germans, as well as six million Jews.) Stalin killed twice that many, and Mao killed just under 38 million. When you add in the murders attributable to Lenin, Pol Pot, Tito and the remaining communist dictators of Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe and Latin America, communism claimed more than 100 million lives. These estimates vary, but it’s generally accepted now among historians that communism took far more lives than Nazism.

    My aim here isn’t to minimize the atrocities of the Holocaust. My point is that communism also killed millions -- perhaps hundreds of millions -- this last century; it enslaved, and continues to enslave, billions more.
    And those are merely the costs we can estimate.

    Far more speculative and difficult to measure are the ways in which communism killed human potential. The last century was the most productive in human history: We cured diseases, went to the moon, improved the human condition in almost every way imaginable. Think of what the human race might have accomplished had billions of us not been imprisoned by communism but been free to explore, stretch and reach our potential through competition, innovation and creativity.
    There’s really no telling what we might have done.

    Unfortunately, nearly 14 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the embers of communism haven’t yet flickered out. Anti-communists cannot invoke the Holocaust survivors’ cry of “Never Again.” They can’t even cry, “Not Right Now, At This Moment.”

    Right now, North Korea’s communist regime is imposing a famine on its own people, with resulting deaths estimated in the millions. Communist regimes continue to hold captive the people of China, Laos, Vietnam and Cuba. Human rights abuses abound in all five countries.
    Yet communism is rarely regarded with the same enmity we hold for Nazism. In fact, communism today is downright trendy.

    Most of us are justifiably revolted at the sight of a teenage kid wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with a swastika. But glimpse the same kid in a shirt featuring a sickle and hammer, or a portrait of Che Guevara, and many of us will find him quaint, perhaps idealistic -- at the very worst, naïve and misguided. In New York City, you can get tipsy at the KGB Bar, a chic spot featuring Soviet-era symbolism and paraphernalia. Imagine what might become of the entrepreneur who tried to open a nightspot themed with Nazi regalia.

    It’s become fashionable of late for celebrities to make high-profile pilgrimages to Cuba, to be wined and dined by Fidel Castro. In the time it takes to extol the virtues of universal health care and education, you can bet at least a dozen Cubans have risked their lives to get out. Iconic director Stephen Spielberg was the latest to make the trip. You’d think the man who so eloquently documented the brutality of totalitarianism in "Schindler’s List" would know better than to cozy up to tyrants.

    Even on communism’s old stomping grounds, there seems to be a twisted nostalgia for the old days. Plans are underway for a communist theme park in what was once East Berlin. In Russia, home of the gulags, in a recent poll a majority of Russians think “Uncle Joe” Stalin did more good for Russia than bad.

    Bryan Caplan, an associate professor of economics at George Mason University, maintains the “Museum of Communism” Web site. Caplan says the difference in the way many of us perceive communism and Nazism lies in the way we view each philosophy’s motives.

    “People see communists as misguided realists,” Caplan says, “whereas most of us know Nazis were brutal thugs.”

    In other words, we’re willing to cut communism slack because we’ve been led to believe that the philosophy was driven by such noble goals as equality and egalitarianism. That’s not the truth, of course. As Caplan documents on his site, from Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin onward, communism has always been driven by power. Slave labor and the “liquidation” of dissidents were always part of the plan.

    This is why a museum dedicated to preserving communism’s brutal legacy is necessary. The philosophy’s history isn’t the result of good intentions gone wrong; it’s a perverse theory of rights that’s abhorrent and immoral on its face. The former implies that if done right, communism might work someday. The latter correctly concludes that it ought not ever be tried again.

    One such project is already underway. The Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation has been raising money toward a museum for several years now. The organization plans to build an online “virtual” museum first, then a standing memorial in Washington, D.C., with a final eye toward a bricks-and-mortar memorial similar to the Holocaust Museum.

    But there’s a problem with the project’s funding. Project Director Jay Katzen says that although initial plans called for the museum to be funded entirely with private donations, the challenges of private fund raising has led the group to seek public dollars. Katzen says he’s secured a pledge from Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., to match a taxpayer dollar for each dollar raised privately. I find it almost obscene to build a monument to the evils of state coercion with money coerced by the state from its citizens. A memorial to communism that’s in any way funded with taxpayer dollars would stand devoid of any real moral value at all.

    Perhaps another group will come forward. Perhaps some established capitalist who has made his millions will decide that a philosophy that has left a trail of 100 million dead does not deserve favor, or hipster status, or even indifference -- but scorn, derision and condemnation.
    When you leave Washington, D.C.’s Holocaust Museum, you leave sick, heartbroken and burdened with the atrocities of Nazism.

    It’s time we had a building that evoked similar feelings from communism.

    Radley Balko is a writer living in Arlington, Va. He also maintains a Weblog at www.theagitator.com.
     
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  2. -=Burnt Toast=-

    -=Burnt Toast=- Got Stairs?

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    hang on a second. You cant pass judgment upon a PHILOSOPHY based on two examples. and would YOU like to add some of your own thoughts as opposed to regurgitating something you read?
     
  3. Force

    Force GO NOLES!!!!!!! 16 58

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    No not really, I have posted my thoughts about this in other threads....I was just showing everyone a good article. Whether you want to awknowledge it or not, communism sucks. Do you have anything to argue Mr. T or are you just trying to start crappola?! :rolleyes:
     
  4. TScott

    TScott Curmudgeon

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    I agree that there should be such a museum, however if it's going to be effective it should also cover how and why the communists gained power. It should show the incredibly unfair, unjust, and inhuman practices of the nineteenth century industrialists. Communism would have never succeeded without initial popular support, and that support was a direct result of the mistreatment of the worker classes. The US avoided it by progressive taxation that redistributed the wealth, by the protection of organized labor and collective bargaining, and by the realization of many industrialists in this country (headed by Henry Ford) that paying their workers enough to have some money to spend was actually good for the economy (duh).
     
  5. -=Burnt Toast=-

    -=Burnt Toast=- Got Stairs?

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    Communism sucks eh? getting a bit FORCEful dont you think? I must remind you that both Russia AND China were Totalitarian dictatorships, built upon communist ideals. If you were to take Hitler and Stalin for example, if you were to leave out any economic discussion, they are really quite simliar.

    Communism does not equate to mass deaths, a totalitarin dictatorship equates to mass deaths. There is a vast difference.
     
  6. Force

    Force GO NOLES!!!!!!! 16 58

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    Whos talking about death...I just think it sucks in general. Who wants only one brand to eat, wear, etc. Who wants to all be the same. It's a dumb idea, and would never work anyway. The government and it's friends would always be wealthy. Don't kid yourself. Basically it just makes the majority poor, lacking style and sheep.
     
  7. -=Burnt Toast=-

    -=Burnt Toast=- Got Stairs?

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    no, i do believe thats capitalism that your talking about there - the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Communism cannot co-exist in the world with capitalistic states, only in place like Cuba, China and North Korea, does it actually grow and prosper this is due to the self sufficent abilities of these nations.

    Whos speaking about death? I suggest you re-read your article.
     
  8. yen

    yen Member

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    The entire article that you posted. As Burnt Toast says, might want to re-read that again.

    Agreed
     
  9. Voegelin

    Voegelin Reactionary

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    It is a good article and I'm stunned (well not all that stunned) to see anyone apologize or try to minimize the evils of communism.

    As I'm sure you know, over 7 million were killed in the Soviet Union between 1930 and 1933 alone. Very few in the west reported on the genocide. One who did, Gareth Jones, received this letter from a German in the Ukraine to deliver to her uncle (it was just translated this summer):
    Articles by Gareth Jones and others on the Holodomor are here:

    http://colley.co.uk/garethjones/site_map.htm
     
  10. yen

    yen Member

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    That is impossible because there hasn't been a "pure" communist government on a large scale. All the ones in the past were not "pure" communism.

    I don't really see that happening. The examples that have been provided were not true communism, they were totalitarian regimes. There is a big difference. I only see us trying to give a little understanding as to what it really was. They had communist ideals, but it was not "pure" communism.
     
  11. Voegelin

    Voegelin Reactionary

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    You don't get it, do you?

    Communism is a con. A criminal conspiracy. From Marx to Aven, Lenin, Zinoviev, Kaganovich, Yagoda, Berman, Pauker, Trotsky and the rest.

    It is "legalized" theft. It is an attack on the Christian faith, on Western Civilization and on God and man. It is nihilism--a hatred of all which is good and decent.

    There was never any idealism among the leaders or any idea of a more just society. That for for the rubes, for the suckers.

    Trotsky left the lower side of New York City in 1917 with several hundred of his criminal low life friends to loot and plunder Russia.

    That is what the Bolshevik revolution was all about--theft.

    This is what U.S. Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer had to say about it in 1920:
    Don't trust the U.S. Attorney General? Check out these reports, documents and photographs from the British Royal Navy in 1919:

    North Russian, Royal Navy, Expeditionary Force, Archangel, Dvina River

    A few excerpts for those who do not click into the site:
    No...this was not a dream gone bad. This was a nightmare acted upon.
     
  12. yen

    yen Member

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    Please tell me how this is true? Communism is simply:

    Everybody works for the common good of everyone, and things are distributed according to their needs. Nowhere does it mention killing off others and repressing people. That is the result of a dictatorship. In "pure" communism even the politicians receive the exact same payoff as everyone else. No one is above the other.

    In theory, communism would create a classless society of abundance and freedom, in which all people enjoy equal social and economic status. In practice, communist regimes have taken the form of coercive, authoritarian governments that cared little for the plight of the working class and sought above all else to preserve their own hold on power.

    A little history for you as well since you brought up Christianity
    I am not a communist btw, but imo so many people have the wrong ideas and refuse to understand it, thus it creates hate.
     
  13. Godzman

    Godzman Peace

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    communism can't exist in this world, you wanna know why, because all men are corrupt and to much power will lead to bad things, just ask those who live and have lived under communism. It is a utopia that can't exist
     
  14. yen

    yen Member

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    I do understand that. However, people are confusing communism with that of a totalitarian regime. To blame communism is wrong, it's the dictators you want to blame and their corruption. That is all I am trying to get at. Communism itself doesn't say to repress people and kill off the opposition. I know communism could never work, because it will be taken over by selfish people (stated in another thread by me as well). However, it is the people to blame, not communism itself.

    Any government can go bad though, so long as there is the opposition and corruption to do so. :)

    Atleast, imo
     
  15. Godzman

    Godzman Peace

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    well yeah, but communism also rejects God, or the form of communism presented to the masses, and has killed more Christians then the romans could ever think about.
     
  16. yen

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    How does it reject God? I am not asking this in a debating manner, but people keep saying this and I don't quite understand how. Would appreciate some feedback on it. :)

    True communism, from what I have read is simply everyone working and sharing the fruits of their labor equally according to their need. I don't quiet understand how that would go against God, since you are simply working and taking care of each other. The communism that has been practiced in history by dictators though, I am sure plenty of things went against God there. If that is what you mean though, then I do understand. :) If you mean true communism (without evil governments), would appreciate on the why and how it goes against God, so I can understand where others are coming from. :)
     
  17. Force

    Force GO NOLES!!!!!!! 16 58

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    Nazism in the core was meant to be a good thing as well by the way. That is why most of Germany fell prey to it. All they knew is their country was promised great and powerful things.

    So if the only leaders you have leading an idea have turned out to be evil...You have to wonder why.
     
  18. Godzman

    Godzman Peace

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    communism would not allow any faith in there countries, they forced athiesm, do you think that goes against God or not
     
  19. yen

    yen Member

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    I'm not talking about that though.

    Again though, that was something setup by the regimes themselves, and yes I believe it is wrong. I have yet to read anything regarding "true" communism as keeping people from religion though.
     
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