Going "Undercover" as a "Mormon" question for non LDS christians

[Jane_Doe]

Here are a few quotes you might like to read(if you haven't already) concerning Mormon beliefs/doctrine

Mormons Hope to Become Gods of Their Own Worlds


Doctrinal Quotes


Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Mormons

Of joy, folks who try lie to others (most notably mainstream Christians) in hope of drawing them closer to Christ. Yep, I'm too well familiar with their type and these specific works.

Mainstream Christians don't need to resort to these horrible tactics. Your faith is beautiful and strong: show that light, and do no rely on these dark lies.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Of joy, "Christians" who try lie to others (most notably mainstream Christians) in hope of drawing them closer to Christ. Yep, I'm too well familiar with their type and these specific works.

Mainstream Christians don't need to resort to these horrible tactics. Your faith is beautiful and strong: show that light, and do no rely on these dark lies.

From what I read each of those were direct quotes from your Churches:
1. Prophets
2. Presidents
3. quorum of Seventy
4. quorum of the 12 Apostles

All I was doing was quoting from your Church leadership. If you disagree with anything specifically from within those links, I would be happy to hear why(from your Church's Doctrinal position of course).

 

[Jane_Doe]

\

From what I read each of those were direct quotes from your Churches:
1. Prophets
2. Presidents
3. quorum of Seventy
4. quorum of the 12 Apostles

All I was doing was quoting from your Church leadership. If you disagree with anything specifically from within those links, I would be happy to hear why(from your Church's Doctrinal position of course).

Quotes that they take completely out of context (including authority level) and pretzel to things that aren't actual LDS beliefs.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

\

Quotes that they take completely out of context (including authority level) and pretzel to things that aren't actual LDS beliefs.

Which quotes would you like to look at in context? I would be happy to go through the ones that you feel have a different meaning within the context of the chapter or page or sermon.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Which quotes would you like to look at in context? I would be happy to go through the ones that you feel have a different meaning within the context of the chapter or page or sermon.

Call me crazy, but I doubt your actual interest of learning here.

 

[mark kennedy]

Hello, first of all, for all my members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints, I want to say, I have NOTHING against y'all as people, I REPEAT, NOTHING. and also sorry for using "Mormon", I know the presidency has said to not use it, i will though, because its much easier to the full name, and also clearer. I wanna say that I'm not hateful in any way, and only want to learn more, and if i tell the local chappel who I truly am, they will inevitably hold stuff back, and not talk as openly, its only natural since i will be seen as an outsider.

To fellow non-mormon christians, i need an opinion:
This is my situation, I spent 8 months in a chappel, almost becoming a mormon before i knew much of the bible. I started reading the bible and came out, now I love researching and learning about apologetics and talk to members of the mormon church (I specially enjoy Jeff Durbin's apologetics videos and I've started doing something similar). However, I would really like to know more about how mormons truly believe, what they struggle with, and what they are confident in.

This is not some diabolical plan to use their weakness against them, but to better understand mormons as to not missrepresent them, and not waste time on trivial issues, really to be able to be on the same page, to understand what they mean when they talk.

Because of this, I have an opportunity, to go to a mormon chappel where no one except one person knows me (and knows nothing of my past or theology) and frankly, sit there, contribute in as much as its according to the bible, and simply, be a discreet mormon. I'm not gonna say i was baptized into the church, or lie really. my story is:

"I spent 8 months in a chappel, moved cities, and now i started comming here, i havent been baptized into the church, but want to learn more."
this is EXACTLY TRUE.

I already went to a meeting, and frankly I was myself, of course biting my lips not to talk about how the bible doesnt support becoming Gods or such, but stil. And when asked about my story, I was complety open and sincere, but vague enough as not to talk of what i currently believe other than "The Gospel of Jesus Christ" I felt good, i'm not being evil, I simply wanna understand better, but from a point of apologetics, and not a possible convert.
I dont think that what i'm doing is wrong, sitting in the back and really not talking much of theology but i still want a (few) second opinion(s) on the matter. and again, i'm simply not flat out open about it, since last time i did (when i was starting to become a convert) they would not tell me some stuff, like how mormons believe you can be Gods, or that they dont fully trust the bible (or in their words, they trust the bible in as much as its translated correctly which seems to be code for "doesnt contradict the BoM)

Anyways, thanks!!

I have no real experience with LDS, but their ideas about the condescension of God I find disturbing. A couple of Mormon missionaries came into my home and encouraged me to read the BOM, I found it comical, no offense intended. Strange stories about a gold and silver bow, something about a Pentateuch written on silver or something and some ball of curious workmanship. These two seemed very sincere and enjoyed our discussions, but that book seemed hopelessly cartoonish. We parted on good terms and I wished them well, but will never forget how strange that narrative read.

There are so many issues, like baptism for the remission of sins before this was even a practice. I found it hard to take seriously and I certainly never considered being baptized Mormon. Thanks for sharing your experiences, I wish you well in your journey. I just think Mormons somehow wandered away from the Christian Scriptures and never have I heard the gospel, in any coherent way from one of them. The BOM remains for me a comical work of fiction and I bear no animosity toward any of them. I would not shun them as people, I just don't regard them as Christians. Would to God it were otherwise but their doctrines are far to whimsical for me to accept.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Call me crazy, but I doubt your actual interest of learning here.

I'm always interested in learning. I've spent dozens(if not hundreds) of hours studying doctrines that I firmly disagree with, but I do so to gain knowledge and hopefully truth. I can't know if someone is true wholly or even just in part if I do not hear them out.

So pick whichever of the quotes you feel has been misrepresented(from the links I posted) and show me how it is different in context. If you feel every single one of those verses mean something completely different in context of the chapter I will go through as many of them as wish to. So that I can judge for myself the truth.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I'm always interested in learning. I've spent dozens(if not hundreds) of hours studying doctrines that I firmly disagree with, but I do so to gain knowledge and hopefully truth. I can't know if someone is true wholly or even just in part if I do not hear them out.

So pick whichever of the quotes you feel has been misrepresented(from the links I posted) and show me how it is different in context. If you feel every single one of those verses mean something completely different in context of the chapter I will go through as many of them as wish to. So that I can judge for myself the truth.

I shall go through more in detail tomorrow. (It's late now and I got to get to bed)

If you're interested, Here's a good link explaining actual LDS belief on the subject of becoming like God (which is totally different than replacing God): Becoming Like God

Good night, I'll write more tomorrow.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

I shall go through more in detail tomorrow. (It's late now and I got to get to bed)

If you're interested, Here's a good link explaining actual LDS belief on the subject of becoming like God (which is totally different than replacing God): Becoming Like God

Good night, I'll write more tomorrow.

Good night sister

 

[Strong in Him]

Out of "not putting myself in danger of converting" or out of "what you are doing is wrong bc of x, y and z" ? if the latter, I wanna know that x, y and z, if the former, dont worry, i already left that church because of scripture, I got my theology and apologetics on why i dont believe pretty sound

I could be wrong but it sounds like you went to a Mormon chapel, maybe from curiosity, or a desire to find out what they believe; decided you didn't agree with it, left, read the Bible and became a Christian.
But that now you're going back - maybe in the hope that someone will say something that you can question/contradict, which may, in turn, get others there to question their faith.

You may have the right motives, but I don't feel it is very wise and may even be dangerous.
You are on your own, surrounded by Mormon followers and teachers. Does anyone from your own church know where you are and what you are doing? If they did, at the very least, they could pray for you while you are doing this - though it's likely they'd tell you to get out of there.
Why not spend your time going to Bible studies/lectures/doing courses/meditating and building up your own faith? Then, a bit further down the line, with prayer and Christian support, set up some kind of joint meeting/public talk on neutral territory. Once there, talk to them and find out what they are saying, listen to them and above all, SHOW love and acceptance of them as people. Share your testimony, if appropriate - say that you once attended their meetings, read Scripture for yourself and then left their church. I am pretty sure they'd question YOU to find out more and try to win you back; if they do, at least you have other Christians around you.

As a teenager I spent hours talking to, and arguing with, JWs. Moonies etc - though rarely Mormons, admittedly. I once went to a Moonie commune with the specific idea of arguing and converting. It occurred to me, while I was there, that no one else knew where I was - if they had worn me down, confused me, then bombarded me with kindness and, their version of, Scripture, I could have ended up going back/wanting to stay and convert. For all I knew at the time, they could have locked me in and not let me leave. They didn't, and obviously I never went back.
I'm not saying Mormons are like that - but why put yourself in that position?

IF you are called by God to do this work of witnessing to other faiths; do it properly.
i) a good grounding in Scripture and your faith
ii) Certainty that this is God's will for you; the strength and filling of the Holy Spirit.
iii) support - definitely prayer, preferably also the presence of 1 or 2 Christian friends. And inform your Minister/Pastor what you are doing.
iv) Love, love and more love - listen, accept and respect them, don't itch to argue and convert.
v) Leave results up to God; share your testimony, faith and relevant Scriptures, debate calmly and politely, pray as you are doing so - then leave.

 

[Strong in Him]

(Continued)
Like I said, I could be wrong and you may not be going at all with the intention of converting them.
But in that case, why not be "flat out" honest? Why not say, "I've had some experience of your church and decided to leave, but I'm still interested in your beliefs and want to learn about them"?
At some point you'll probably be asked why you want to learn more; what are you going to do with what you learn? Convert to their faith, or use it to argue and point out their errors?
You say that you don't believe what you are doing is wrong - that's between you and God; I wouldn't do it. But your use of the word "undercover" suggests some kind of duplicity, and your need to ask us what we think, suggests some doubts or insecurities.

 

[mmksparbud]

Call me crazy, but I doubt your actual interest of learning here.

This is what you guys always do---you complain about being misquoted, things taken out of context and yet--when asked which ones and how they are out of context---you guys always back out of any explanations. Why is that? Seems like you would want to explain. As SDA I get that all the time--I take each statement and go through it and show where it is out of context or misquoted. It is time consuming and highly repetitive--but I have trouble with ignoring stuff that is misquoted or out of context and not backed up by actual quoted--0just those "well, you believe....." I understand getting bored with repeating--however, I just can' let those statements lie. How can you? Why are you questioning this persons heart, instead of just answering his questions?

 

[Undercover_mormon]

Prezteled falsehood out there about LDS beliefs: that LDS believe your works save you.

Actual LDS belief: Christ does the saving. You can't save yourself. You got to accept Christ. And yes, "accepting" is a verb- an action. That very same chapter that anti-Mormons love to misconstrue (2 Nephi 2) actually points to how we NEED Christ and it's impossible by ourselves. Hence all the preaching of Christ and rejoicing in Christ -- so people may know to where we turn to for remission of sins. Cause even after all you can do, even if you would to bend over backwards trying to be the best you can be, it's Christ that save yourself-- you NEVER cane save yourself. It's impossible. Hence the proclaiming, the rejoceing, the teaching, etc.


Prezteled falsehood out there about LDS beliefs: that there is any doctrinal statement about that the Father's past. They will conveniently neglect to tell the reader that the King Follett Discourse (quoted above) is not remotely cannon, nor actually talked about in LDS church, any any LDS person is 100% free to think whatever about it (including think it's complete bunk) and be 100% in good standing. I myself don't embrace it (I'm of the don't-know-don't-care camp).

I don't care if anyone believes differently than I do. I totally respect other people's faith actually. But I am also OCD honest and would like the real story told about what I and other people (LDS and non) believe. God is a God of Truth, not pretzeling.

Speaking as an LDS person: I don't find a single contradiction. Not one. Yes, I 100% believe the Bible and love the Bible-- hence why I'm going to put the effort into getting a good translation and understanding that process. I love every word of the Bible.

I readily acknowledge that other people have other interpretations of scripture and hence see different things. If you want me to talk about the variety of beliefs throughout Christiandom and how LDS compare, I'm happy to do so.

Jane, if Joseph smith was a prophet, every single piece of teaching must be cannon, just like the bible says, Test prophets by their words, if they say anything to lead you to a different God, they are not real, if they say anything that doesnt come to pass, they are not real.

Sorry Jane, but 2 nephi is veery clear, and so is Moroni. You might believe different, but the BoM and 99% of every lds that i've talked with reflect the "It is grace that saves you, but only if you also do everything to better yourself" thats salvation by works. Like paul says if you add one work to grace, then its not grace, and you are bound to keep the whole law.

Know what the church of galatia was going through? well, they were saying it was grace alone... + circumsition and paul refuted them openly and harshly even going as far as saying "I wish they would emmasculate themselves!"

Becoming Like God your own church confirms that God the Father was a human before, citing Joseph's discurses and such.

Again, a prophet is a prophet 24/7, not from 9 to 5, Remember Ezekiel? God dictated even in which positions to put himself, how to cook his meals, Remember Moses? God dictated even how to talk to a rock.

 

[Undercover_mormon]

Do mainstream Christians shun? I could likewise pull up a video of people who've left mainstream Christianity and felt shunned by their families there.

In both cases, this is not insuitutional shunning. Rather, there are some families wherein things have broken down when people leave the faith, resulting in one or both sides feeling shunned. This is humans being flawed creatures. We all are. And we all need to strive to be better.

except... a non christian can attend a wedding and be front and center with his loved ones... not the same with mormons and the temple.

look, when i left mormonism or at least my path to conversion, my very "best friends" started ignoring me, my GF at the time gave me an ultimatum "Convert, or by the end of the year, when i leave for the mission, we are going to break up" the chappen that I had once found filled with lovely people, now was filled of people who all turned against me... and all i did was "Hey guys, I love y'all but i simply cant reconcile the bible and your techings, i'm gonna go home and maybe some day, if i can, return, otherwise this is my last day"

yes, some time after i started doing evangelism and apologetics, but that was after this whole shunning happened...

meanwhile, my best friend in the world is an atheist, and 99% of every christian that i know, has plenty of ex christians and atheists as friends (my country has tons of atheists) so i see a stark difference.. you might be the exception tho

 

[Undercover_mormon]

What you're describing is simple human awkwardness.

Name a particular subject, and odds are people will keep things short and simple when they first encounter someone who they suspect does not have their level of knowledge on the topic. Once they come to recognize that the person is getting to their level, they'll move the level of conversation back up.

For example, if I was to start talking about things like "speed running", "strafe running", "circle strafing", or anything else of the nature, I'd get blank stares from most folks. If I was to explain that they're terms related to video games, I'd get a little more acceptance. Once I explain each term, they'll understand. Until then, I'd have to stop and break things down.

It's not any sort of effort to conceal anything. It's simply an effort to avoid information overload.


BTW -

Speed Running - attempting to complete a pre-defined segment of a game, if not the game itself, in the fastest time possible, usually under one or more constraints. World records, however informal, are indeed kept for many games, with increasingly tight standards for evidence in establishing that the feat was accomplished.

Strafe Running - odd quirk in the original "Doom" games and those games based on that game engine (re: core programming) wherein a person can run much faster than normal if they have the character running while angled up against a wall. To my knowledge the cause was never determined.

Circle Strafing - In "shooter" games where the character can move sideways, it is literally the process of running circles around a group of opponents while you open fire on them. A classic tactic that goes back to the early "Doom" games (if not earlier), but is now made awkward by the fact that on some Microsoft-based operating systems the combination of keys needed to do so when using a keyboard (as opposed to a joystick or game pad) do odd things like rotate the screen display 90 degrees.

Brother... I could be mistaken but saying "Celestial kingdom" isnt easier for a newbie than "Becoming like God/exaltation" but it is more "Christanese" ie it sounds more like talking about heaven.

for 6 months they would talk in a round about way, missionaires, everyone who knew me and talked to me, they'd say things like "oh yes, I 100% believe the bible" yet when i started to question they say that it was translated incorrectly.. so they didnt trust 100% ...
or else they'd talk about the spirit world not as a second chance, but as it was heaven of sorts, and even them they avoided it...

after those first 6 months, they started telling me doctrine quite openly, and explaining me everything that came up, like "Oh, we believe that all souls are created in the pre existance by our heavenly father and heavenly mother!" and thats when I started to note the differences, i didnt know much of mainline christianity, but i knew there was no heavenly mother.

and yes, maybe it was a coincidence... but wouldnt it be easier to explain a newcommer everything in simple terms from the get go? like "you see, unlike most christians, we believe Jesus to be a different being from the Father, but they are one in the Godhead through purpose, unlike trinitarians" or "you see, we believe that upon death, according to your actions on earth, there are 3 levels of heaven, the highest one you dwell with God and achieve Godhood"

of course, if they had started off with that, i would have left in a split second.

 

[Undercover_mormon]

I could be wrong but it sounds like you went to a Mormon chapel, maybe from curiosity, or a desire to find out what they believe; decided you didn't agree with it, left, read the Bible and became a Christian.
But that now you're going back - maybe in the hope that someone will say something that you can question/contradict, which may, in turn, get others there to question their faith.

You may have the right motives, but I don't feel it is very wise and may even be dangerous.
You are on your own, surrounded by Mormon followers and teachers. Does anyone from your own church know where you are and what you are doing? If they did, at the very least, they could pray for you while you are doing this - though it's likely they'd tell you to get out of there.
Why not spend your time going to Bible studies/lectures/doing courses/meditating and building up your own faith? Then, a bit further down the line, with prayer and Christian support, set up some kind of joint meeting/public talk on neutral territory. Once there, talk to them and find out what they are saying, listen to them and above all, SHOW love and acceptance of them as people. Share your testimony, if appropriate - say that you once attended their meetings, read Scripture for yourself and then left their church. I am pretty sure they'd question YOU to find out more and try to win you back; if they do, at least you have other Christians around you.

As a teenager I spent hours talking to, and arguing with, JWs. Moonies etc - though rarely Mormons, admittedly. I once went to a Moonie commune with the specific idea of arguing and converting. It occurred to me, while I was there, that no one else knew where I was - if they had worn me down, confused me, then bombarded me with kindness and, their version of, Scripture, I could have ended up going back/wanting to stay and convert. For all I knew at the time, they could have locked me in and not let me leave. They didn't, and obviously I never went back.
I'm not saying Mormons are like that - but why put yourself in that position?

IF you are called by God to do this work of witnessing to other faiths; do it properly.
i) a good grounding in Scripture and your faith
ii) Certainty that this is God's will for you; the strength and filling of the Holy Spirit.
iii) support - definitely prayer, preferably also the presence of 1 or 2 Christian friends. And inform your Minister/Pastor what you are doing.
iv) Love, love and more love - listen, accept and respect them, don't itch to argue and convert.
v) Leave results up to God; share your testimony, faith and relevant Scriptures, debate calmly and politely, pray as you are doing so - then leave.

loved it! and thanks! Yes, my church knows i minister to mormons quite frequently and they often pray for me so thats covered! regarding the results, yes, God will decide, i'm a simple pawn here planting the seed, whether it flurishes or dies is up to God alone.

Regarding the danger, I'm am NOT going to argue inside of there, unless it reaaaally came up to it then, like Paul i would reason from the scriptures. Rather, i think my "mission" to keep the "undercover" theme going, is to learn, understand, and comprehend, not an outsider looking in, but rather as an insider. I want to understand mormons down to the core, what do they EXACTLY believe, what is the things they rely on, and what things they dont worry about. That way, next time that I'm in the street preaching outside a temple or another chappel, I will know what i'm talking about.

Also, to the people in this chappel, I will eventually talk to them, but as a friend and in a friendly way, of course at that point, they'll see i'm "doubting" but i think that's more powerful than simly going and giving out a piece of paper with some beliefs and quotes, as rather i'll be a fellow brother.

Regarding the question I think you posed previously about wanting to give the next step... I will go as far as i can without professing their faith, as soon as they tell me "Do you accept joseph smith as a true prophet and this church as the only true church" then i will make my exit tactfully and saying i'm not ready.

regarding doubts and such... not really, just wanted to hear some opinions or maybe even tips (for example letting my church know and asking for prayers) rather than confirmation.

as someone said, their secretiveness pushed me to faking being mormon in order to learn first hand, as i know it wouldnt be quite the same if i was open and said "hey guys, i'm christian looking to learn more about y'all to later go and preach how this is a false gospel more accurately" so i feel its ok, I'm not mounting a hige lie, saying i was born a mormon and that i've been there my whole life or smth..

 

[Undercover_mormon]

Of joy, folks who try lie to others (most notably mainstream Christians) in hope of drawing them closer to Christ. Yep, I'm too well familiar with their type and these specific works.

Mainstream Christians don't need to resort to these horrible tactics. Your faith is beautiful and strong: show that light, and do no rely on these dark lies.

Jane.. i've been never lied in any of the baptist churches i've been, nor in the lutheran, or methodist or even catholic... everyone actually was super quick to point out the exact theological differences.

When I came to a baptist church as a methodist, they said "hey welcome! do you know about us? no? ok, see, we trust only in the bible, no traditions, also, we do things like the bible says and thats it. We believe baptism by immersion and the believer baptism not like methodists who also do infant baptism..." and so on.
for mormons, it took 6 months for anyone to flat out tell me about heavenly mother... and hey, I learned about the baptism for the dead only when i asked for a straight answer and thats basically when i left.. so 8 months later (mind you, I had many times asked for differences or about practices that differ from mainline christianity and former regular christians said nothing about it)

Regarding ex members... you could almost say i am one.. i was close to baptism and i left... i experienced shunning, slander (my gf said i cheated for example, whereas she actually did cheat, i know from a close friend also mormon who later denied it when i left) i experienced that secrecy...

 

[DamianWarS]

Saying this as a person who regularly attends other churches to better understand what people there believe (and better love them):

Be honest about who you are and why you're there.

Going "undercover" is coming in under a lie, and only serves the King of Lies. Rather, a much better approach is to say "I'm here just to learn better what you believe, I don't have any interest in converting" and people say "that's cool, welcome to our services today." It's totally chill. I've done it in dozens of different churches myself.

PS: Jeff Durbin horribly misconstrues what members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe. It's a horrible way of doing apologics. Much better way: embrace truth and ask people directly what they believe (and honestly want to listen). Even if you think what that person believes is complete hogwash, at least take the time to understand the hogwash correctly and honestly love that person. I applaud you if that honest understanding/love is your goal.

Samuel went to Bethlehem to anoint David as the new king. But that's not what he told people, instead he brought a heifer with him and told the elders at the gate that he was going to make a sacrifice to the Lord and kept the rest a secret. Samuel didn't do this out of his own initiative but from divine authority as this is what God told him to do.

 

[Undercover_mormon]

Samuel went to Bethlehem to anoint David as the new king. But that's not what he told people, instead he brought a heifer with him and told the elders at the gate that he was going to make a sacrifice to the Lord and kept the rest a secret. Samuel didn't do this out of his own initiative but from divine authority as this is what God told him to do.

YOU ARE COMPLETLY RIGHT I HAD TOTALLY FORGOTTEN ABOUT IT!
THANKS!

(this is why i posted this, not out of doubt or rationalizing, but to find things i forgot or even tips)

 

[Loyce KG]

Hello, first of all, for all my members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints, I want to say, I have NOTHING against y'all as people, I REPEAT, NOTHING. and also sorry for using "Mormon", I know the presidency has said to not use it, i will though, because its much easier to the full name, and also clearer. I wanna say that I'm not hateful in any way, and only want to learn more, and if i tell the local chappel who I truly am, they will inevitably hold stuff back, and not talk as openly, its only natural since i will be seen as an outsider.

To fellow non-mormon christians, i need an opinion:
This is my situation, I spent 8 months in a chappel, almost becoming a mormon before i knew much of the bible. I started reading the bible and came out, now I love researching and learning about apologetics and talk to members of the mormon church (I specially enjoy Jeff Durbin's apologetics videos and I've started doing something similar). However, I would really like to know more about how mormons truly believe, what they struggle with, and what they are confident in.

This is not some diabolical plan to use their weakness against them, but to better understand mormons as to not missrepresent them, and not waste time on trivial issues, really to be able to be on the same page, to understand what they mean when they talk.

Because of this, I have an opportunity, to go to a mormon chappel where no one except one person knows me (and knows nothing of my past or theology) and frankly, sit there, contribute in as much as its according to the bible, and simply, be a discreet mormon. I'm not gonna say i was baptized into the church, or lie really. my story is:

"I spent 8 months in a chappel, moved cities, and now i started comming here, i havent been baptized into the church, but want to learn more."
this is EXACTLY TRUE.

I already went to a meeting, and frankly I was myself, of course biting my lips not to talk about how the bible doesnt support becoming Gods or such, but stil. And when asked about my story, I was complety open and sincere, but vague enough as not to talk of what i currently believe other than "The Gospel of Jesus Christ" I felt good, i'm not being evil, I simply wanna understand better, but from a point of apologetics, and not a possible convert.
I dont think that what i'm doing is wrong, sitting in the back and really not talking much of theology but i still want a (few) second opinion(s) on the matter. and again, i'm simply not flat out open about it, since last time i did (when i was starting to become a convert) they would not tell me some stuff, like how mormons believe you can be Gods, or that they dont fully trust the bible (or in their words, they trust the bible in as much as its translated correctly which seems to be code for "doesnt contradict the BoM)

Anyways, thanks!!

Pretty confusing to me. What is it you want?
If you believe in the truth of the gospel, speak up and be bold. Don't be shy about offending people as long as you do it out of Love. The gospel is offensive to men but is the power of salvation.