God's Wrath...To believe the OT or not.

[jimmyjimmy]

Here's an excellent video showing the difference between Orthodox and Western Christianity's view on salvation.

What is "Western Christianity"?

Also, I don't see the distinction between the two examples. What do you say it is?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What is "Western Christianity"?

((footnote, tangent interruption; just proceed with thread))
thatbrian, look online if it is still somewhere (it used to be) to see the
quite dramatic difference between Hebrew teaching, training , and perspective VS greek.
Just like the southerners
pretty much always opposed the northerners,
so also the ones who like greek will hardly ever switch sides.
No worries.
The differences explain a lot of how christendom became contaminated and corrupted long long ago - simple explanations of the sources of many ideas not found in the Bible, and how they got integrated anyway into christendom .

 

[ToBeLoved]

If you look at the OT, God's wrath results in destruction. The destruction of Sodom, the destruction of those in Noah's time, etc.

God is the same in the NT, look at John 3:36
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them."
(NIV)

When God's wrath remains on someone, they do not receive eternal life, they will not see eternal life. They will be destroyed, just as the people of Sodom were destroyed in the OT. (This exact point is raised in Jude 1:7 and 2 Peter 2:6) The NT offers us a way to escape the destruction of the wrath of God, by faith in God's Son. Though Him we can have eternal life. This is actually the SAME way that the OT Saints were saved from God's wrath, but faith in God.

I agree with you that God has wrath tempered by His Love, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16 NIV)
As another poster has pointed out, God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Gods justice is satisfied under the New Covenant. It was not under the Old Covenant. It's simple


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ToBeLoved]

((footnote, tangent interruption; just proceed with thread))
thatbrian, look online if it is still somewhere (it used to be) to see the
quite dramatic difference between Hebrew teaching, training , and perspective VS greek.
Just like the southerners
pretty much always opposed the northerners,
so also the ones who like greek will hardly ever switch sides.
No worries.
The differences explain a lot of how christendom became contaminated and corrupted long long ago - simple explanations of the sources of many ideas not found in the Bible, and how they got integrated anyway into christendom .

How is that?

None of the New Testament is written in Hebrew?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

interruption; just proceed with thread))
thatbrian, look online if it is still somewhere (it used to be) to see the
quite dramatic difference between Hebrew teaching, training , and perspective VS greek.

How is that? None of the New Testament is written in Hebrew?

((see what to look up. Nothing to do with what language you look it up in, nor what language the Bible was written in. Spanish if you like. Later if possible, for comparison, (exagerated) , look up the customs of Eskimoes and see what is in line with God's Life, and what is not in line with God's Life.(extra credit, God Willing ) ))

Gods justice is satisfied under the New Covenant. It was not under the Old Covenant. It's simple

Where is it written God's Justice is not satisfied ?
Where is it written God's Justice is satisfied, (and FOR WHOM is it satisfied?) ) ?
What changed ?

 

[ToBeLoved]

((see what to look up. Nothing to do with what language you look it up in, nor what language the Bible was written in. Spanish if you like. Later if possible, for comparison, (exagerated) , look up the customs of Eskimoes and see what is in line with God's Life, and what is not in line with God's Life.(extra credit, God Willing ) ))

It sure does. Everything but the original language is a translation. Period.

Also, all the apostles were Jewish, so they were not picking up all this other stuff like you indicated. They only changed what Jesus Christ taught.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It sure does. Everything but the original language is a translation. Period.

Also, all the apostles were Jewish, so they were not picking up all this other stuff like you indicated. They only changed what Jesus Christ taught.

That doesn't make any sense at all, if you're trying to say the greek myths didn't affect later stories told by christians....
I didn't mention any trouble with any translation , did I ? Period.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Where is it written God's Justice is not satisfied ?
Where is it written God's Justice is satisfied, (and FOR WHOM is it satisfied?) ) ?
What changed ?

If God's justice for sin was satisfied in the OT, Jesus would not have to die. That is why the priesthood existed, to make TEMPORARY atonement for sin. Before Christ.

Jesus Christ conquered sin and the spiritual death that sin causes by His blood. The sacrifice for sin was accepted by the Father when the Father restored Jesus to His rightful placed at the Father's right hand. Jesus Christ is our Advocate and Savior from sin.

The death of Jesus Christ changed everything. Jesus brought in the New Covenant through PERMANANT atonement, what the Old Covenant could not.

 

[ToBeLoved]

That doesn't make any sense at all, if you're trying to say the greek myths didn't affect later stories told by christians....
I didn't mention any trouble with any translation , did I ? Period.

The Bible (NT) wasn't written by a bunch of people affected by any Greek myths. All scripture is God-breathed and God wasn't affected by no Greek myths either.

If you want to go there, we can say the Hebrews were affected by Egyptian pagan beliefs in the OT. They were slaves of Egypt for quite a long time.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If God's justice for sin was satisfied in the OT, Jesus would not have to die.

Where is this written ? Especially seeing what was next >

... That is why the priesthood existed, to make TEMPORARY atonement for sin. Before Christ.

So then, do you say atonement for sin was made, but not God's justice for sin ??

Jesus Christ conquered sin and the spiritual death that sin causes by His blood. The sacrifice for sin was accepted by the Father when the Father restored Jesus to His rightful placed at the Father's right hand. Jesus Christ is our Advocate and Savior from sin.
The death of Jesus Christ changed everything. Jesus brought in the New Covenant through PERMANANT atonement, what the Old Covenant could not.

This looks close to , well.... what ? Is any of this stated in God's Word this way or close to this way as you have said, (anyplace?) either OT or NT ?
Or did God teach it somewhere else ?
Actually, it all or in part might be right on (btw) - but without seeing where you got it,
it's not possible to tell....
Especially the "when"

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Bible (NT) wasn't written by a bunch of people affected by any Greek myths. All scripture is God-breathed and God wasn't affected by no Greek myths either.

GOOD! THE BIBLE IS TRUE- we agree on that. But that wasn't ever disputed by me or anyone else here .... so why bring it up ?

If you want to go there, we can say the Hebrews were affected by Egyptian pagan beliefs in the OT. They were slaves of Egypt for quite a long time.

GOOD AGAIN! The Hebrews WERE AFFECTED by egyptian pagan beliefs .... SO !?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Where is this written ? Especially seeing what was next >


So then, do you say atonement for sin was made, but not God's justice for sin ??


This looks close to , well.... what ? Is any of this stated in God's Word this way or close to this way as you have said, (anyplace?) either OT or NT ?
Or did God teach it somewhere else ?
Actually, it all or in part might be right on (btw) - but without seeing where you got it,
it's not possible to tell....
Especially the "when"

God required animal sacrifices to provide a temporary covering of sins and to foreshadow the perfect and complete sacrifice of Jesus Christ (Leviticus 4:35, 5:10). Animal sacrifice is an important theme found throughout Scripture because “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Hebrews 9:22). When Adam and Eve sinned, animals were killed by God to provide clothing for them (Genesis 3:21). Cain and Abel brought sacrifices to the Lord. Cain's was unacceptable because he brought fruit, while Abel's was acceptable because it was the “firstborn of his flock” (Genesis 4:4-5). After the flood receded, Noah sacrificed animals to God (Genesis 8:20-21).

God commanded the nation of Israel to perform numerous sacrifices according to certain procedures prescribed by God. First, the animal had to be spotless. Second, the person offering the sacrifice had to identify with the animal. Third, the person offering the animal had to inflict death upon it. When done in faith, this sacrifice provided a temporary covering of sins. Another sacrifice called for on the Day of Atonement, described in Leviticus 16, demonstrates forgiveness and the removal of sin. The high priest was to take two male goats for a sin offering. One of the goats was sacrificed as a sin offering for the people of Israel (Leviticus 16:15), while the other goat was released into the wilderness (Leviticus 16:20-22). The sin offering provided forgiveness, while the other goat provided the removal of sin.

Why, then, do we no longer offer animal sacrifices today? Animal sacrifices have ended because Jesus Christ was the ultimate and perfect sacrifice. John the Baptist recognized this when he saw Jesus coming to be baptized and said, “Look, the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29). You may be asking yourself, why animals? What did they do wrong? That is the point—since the animals did no wrong, they died in place of the one performing the sacrifice. Jesus Christ also did no wrong but willingly gave Himself to die for the sins of mankind (1 Timothy 2:6). Jesus Christ took our sin upon Himself and died in our place. As 2 Corinthians 5:21 says, “God made him [Jesus] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” Through faith in what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross, we can receive forgiveness.

In summation, animal sacrifices were commanded by God so that the individual could experience forgiveness of sin. The animal served as a substitute—that is, the animal died in place of the sinner, but only temporarily, which is why the sacrifices needed to be offered over and over. Animal sacrifices have stopped with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was the ultimate sacrificial substitute once for all time (Hebrews 7:27) and is now the only mediator between God and humanity (1 Timothy 2:5). Animal sacrifices foreshadowed Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf. The only basis on which an animal sacrifice could provide forgiveness of sins is Christ who would sacrifice Himself for our sins, providing the forgiveness that animal sacrifices could only illustrate and foreshadow.

http://www.gotquestions.org/animal-sacrifices.html


There ya go. Let me know if you have additional questions not covered above.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

TOBE: here it is> Read this again (it wasn't supposed or meant to be for this thread )>>
There's NOTHING I said that diminishes the ABSOLUTE TRUTH of the BIBLE.

Here's an exact QUOTE="yeshuaslavejeff, post: 69779185, member: 96665"]((footnote, tangent interruption; just proceed with thread))
thatbrian, look online if it is still somewhere (it used to be) to see the
quite dramatic difference between Hebrew teaching, training , and perspective VS greek.
Just like the southerners
pretty much always opposed the northerners,
so also the ones who like greek will hardly ever switch sides.
No worries.
The differences explain a lot of how christendom became contaminated and corrupted long long ago - simple explanations of the sources of many ideas not found in the Bible, and how they got integrated anyway into christendom .QUOTE

 

[ToBeLoved]

GOOD! THE BIBLE IS TRUE- we agree on that. But that wasn't ever disputed by me or anyone else here .... so why bring it up ?

You said the writer's of the NT were affected by Greek myths, not me.

Why did you say that?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There ya go. Let me know if you have additional questions not covered above.

So, then, why did you say God's Justice was not satisfied ???
You just posted proof from Scripture that it was ! (btw, I do use and usually like Got questions for reference)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You said the writer's of the NT were affected by Greek myths, not me.

Why did you say that?

Look again. I re-quoted my post for you.
I never mentioned the writer's of the NT being affected by any myths or anything not of GOD, God watched over His Word PERFECTLY.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You said the writer's of the NT were affected by Greek myths, not me.

Why did you say that?

Seeing now, hopefully, what I posted, (and not what you said)
do you agree that the whole BIBLE is accurate and truth, it is God's Word guarded by God Himself ?

 

[ToBeLoved]

L

So, then, why did you say God's Justice was not satisfied ???
You just posted proof from Scripture that it was ! (btw, I do use and usually like Got questions for reference)

Love, love Got Questions. Always scriptural documentation for what they say. Most excellent resource.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Seeing now, hopefully, what I posted, (and not what you said)
do you agree that the whole BIBLE is accurate and truth, it is God's Word guarded by God Himself ?

Yes. I believe that.

Maybe there was a misunderstanding some where. We seem to believe much of the same things.

 

[dhh712]

Along with my thread on hell this topic came up. Do Christians believe in the OT anymore? If God is the same yesterday, today, and forever than He also has wrath or is there a different God in the NT?

Of course I think that God has wrath tempered by His Love

Of course. Without the Old Testament there is no New Testament. Without the Old Testament, Jesus means nothing. There is no point to him. God's wrath is plain in the New Testament as well, however, by Jesus' teachings. He preached on hell about as often as he preached on love and forgiveness (I'm actually told by someone that he preached more on hell than other topics, but I haven't looked in the numbers of times specifically; just when I casually read through the Gospels, there's a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth and repentence he talks about). So, to not believe in God's wrath is to not be reading a great portion of both the Old and New Testaments.