• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.
  7. There has been an addition to the announcement regarding unacceptable nick names. The phrase "Let's go Brandon" actually stands for a profanity and will be seen as a violation of the profanity rule in the future.

GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. listed

    listed are you?

    +1,543
    Non-Denom
    Private
    This isn't what is called the "old covenant."
    And what is that Gospel (good news)? Is it the law?
     
  2. listed

    listed are you?

    +1,543
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Sometimes they speak truth.
     
  3. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,163
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    I can't find the phrase "obey and live" in the Bible. Can you share the exact text?
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

    +7,170
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Just sharing 3 of them because it is such and obvious answer.

    Genesis 2.
    “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

    Lev 18:5 "5 So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them; I am the Lord."

    Gal 3:12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

    Gal 3: 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

    Rom 10: 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”

    Matt 19: 17 if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
  5. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,163
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    So "obey and live" is not actually a quote, even though you have quote marks around it.
     
  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +5,703
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Some further interesting thought in relation to the OP here...

    GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN PART 2/2

    It is amazing how those that do not have God's WORD to supoport their traditions that break the commandments of God accuse those who have God's WORD of things that are not true.

    The religious teachers in the days of Jesus said that he had a devil and his followers were a cult this was also independently verifiable in the days of Jesus and the Apostles. Just ask the Jews who hung Jesus on the cross (John 7:20; John 8:48; 52; Matt 10:25 12:24; Acts 28:22).

    This could be said of all those who followed Jesus throughout time even before Jesus the religious teachers of the day killed the prophets sent to them by God to share God's WORD (Luke 11:47; Matt 23:31)

    Stephen was stoned to death it was independently verified that he was blaspheming because no one could argue with the scriptures that he was presenting (Acts 6:8-15).

    Paul, Peter and most of the Apostles were also executed because it was independently verified by the religious teachers of the day that they could not respond to God's WORD they were sharing with them.

    Not to mention all those of the reformation and the birth of Protestantism and the inquisition of the Roman Catholic Church which executed millions of God's people because it was independently verified by the Roman Catholic Church that they were all heretics and should be burned at the stake.

    Now today you call heretic or cult because it is independently verified because you cannot respond to the scriptures that disagree with your Catholic traditions which has led many to break God's Commandments?

    ONLY God's WORD is true and you do not have it to support your tradition that breaks the commandments of God. The WORD of God is sent to help you have a closer walk with God but you reject God's WORD in order to follow the traditions of the fathers.

    Jesus and Paul spoke correctly quoting Isaiah;

    Well spoke the Holy Spirit by Isaiah the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is stubborn, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


    Something to think about who do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW? The teachings and traditions of men that break the Commandments of God or the WORD of GOD. Jesus says those who follow man made traditions that break God's Commandments are not following him...

    MATTHEW 15:2-9 [2], Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. [3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? [4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death. [5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me; [6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. [7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, [8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. [9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    It is very clear according to Jesus if we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the Commandments of GOD we are not following God.

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

    .......................

    SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

    Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    .......................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
     
  7. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

    +1,313
    United States
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Clue: We're trying to identify the Old Covenant.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

    +7,170
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Just sharing 3 of them because it is such and obvious answer.

    Genesis 2.
    “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

    Lev 18:5 "5 So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them; I am the Lord."

    Gal 3: 5 So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them; I am the Lord.

    Excellent!

    Read the post.

    Think about it.

    Post response
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

    +7,170
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Just sharing 3 of them because it is such and obvious answer.

    Genesis 2.
    “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

    Lev 18:5 "5 So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them; I am the Lord."

    Gal 3: 5 So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them; I am the Lord.

    Only for those who don't read

    for those of us who do - those texts "say it all"

    in fact it "just does not GET any easier than that"

    I freely admit that when I am leading a horse to water - he can always choose not to drink. A person convinced against their will - is of the same opinion still.

    I am ok with free will.

    But other people will read the obvious in those texts and that is good news! :)

    (And we all know it)
     
  10. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

    +4,141
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Yet again, you have posted this false teaching.
    Celebrating the resurrection of Jesus on Sunday has nothing to do with Saturday.

    You have been taught that there is some association between, celebrating the resurrection on Sunday and resting on Saturday. I don't know who put that idea into your head, but there is no correlation between them. One day you rest and the other day you celebrate the resurrection. It may be that you attend a church that does not celebrate the day of the resurrection.
    Sin is disobedience, whether you commit sorcery, drink too much or gamble, e.t.c. It is all sin whether the law defines the sin or not. Believe me you will know when your sinning, yet the law may be silent regarding your sin. You can't get around the fact that what you believe sin to be, is sin, because your own conscious will condemn you.
    Depends how you have been taught to interpret the scripture. There are numerous interpretations of the scripture, but only one interpretation is correct. For me it's simple, the context determines how I understand the scripture.
    Once again, the word of God reduces to the interpretation you have been taught. It is a rare person who reads and interprets the scripture, on their own. Nearly all interpret the scripture as others have read it, in centuries past. All follow men's tradition to some degree, even you do without even realizing it. The SDA interpretation follows an earlier traditional reading of the text, where the ten commandments have priority. You have a traditional interpretation whether you admit to it or not.

    Even the canon of scripture relies heavily on church tradition.
     
  11. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

    +1,313
    United States
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Not sure why these SDA will not say that " obey and live " is a quote from Ellen G White's writings;
    Patriots and Prophets pg 53 Patriarchs and Prophets
    Page 53
    Like the angels, the dwellers in Eden had been placed upon probation; their happy estate could be retained only on condition of fidelity to the Creator's law. They could obey and live, or disobey and perish.

    Their prophetess writings gives them boldness to say what the scriptures does not say.
    Page 372
    The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deuteronomy 27:26. The "new covenant" was established upon "better promises"--the promise of forgiveness of sins and of the grace of God to renew the heart and bring it into harmony with the principles of God's law. "This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts . . . . I will forgive their iniquity, and will remember their sin no more." Jeremiah 31:33, 34.


    Notice how EGW identifies the Old Covenant as being with the Children of Israel at Sinai... but she calls the Abrahamic covenant the new covenant,,,,


    Page 371
    Another compact--called in Scripture the "old" covenant--was formed between God and Israel at Sinai, and was then ratified by the blood of a sacrifice. The Abrahamic covenant was ratified by the blood of Christ, and it is called the "second," or "new," covenant, because the blood by which it was sealed was shed after the blood of the first covenant. That the new covenant was valid in the days of Abraham is evident from the fact that it was then confirmed both by the promise and by the oath of God--the "two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie." Hebrews 6:18.

    But if the Abrahamic covenant contained the promise of redemption, why was another covenant formed at Sinai? In their bondage the people had to a great extent lost the knowledge of God and of the principles of the Abrahamic covenant. In delivering them from Egypt, God sought to reveal to them His power and His mercy, that they might be led to love and trust Him. He brought them down to the Red Sea--where, pursued by the Egyptians, escape seemed impossible--that they might realize their utter helplessness, their need of divine aid; and then He wrought deliverance for them. Thus they were filled with love and gratitude to God and with confidence in His power to help them. He had bound them to Himself as their deliverer from temporal bondage.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  12. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

    +1,313
    United States
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Do you know any self righteous jerks?? They act as if they know truth, but the cant reveal their true sources. (The bible don't agree with them)
     
  13. listed

    listed are you?

    +1,543
    Non-Denom
    Private
    So what is being said here by the quote from TTC, 6.1 with:

    Those who choose to do so can venture to despise the law of God because given to the Jews, and to reject Christ because he came of the Jews; but one thing they cannot do. They cannot say, “We accept the new covenant because it pertains to the Gentiles, whereas the first covenant, and the law, etc., pertained to the Jews.”

    Is this a reason they don't fully accept the NC?

    Isn't this the reason they try so hard to drag Christians from the NC to keeping some part of the the OC?

    Doesn't the words new, first and second show a difference?

    How can anyone observe conflicting covenants?

    How can being required to observe the OC even in part be the truth?

    Are Paul and James putting us on with ideas about all or nothing when it comes to the law?

    To be required to keep any of the covenant issued at Sinai requires complete compliance including physical circumcision. Keeping any part of the covenant issued at Sinai isn't following Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  14. listed

    listed are you?

    +1,543
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Yes and I agree.
     
  15. listed

    listed are you?

    +1,543
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Lots of conflict in their writings. Never-the-less some truth can be picked out. It's the confusion caused by untrue conflicting statements that give me a headache.
     
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +5,703
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU KNOW GOD?

    1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    1 JOHN 3:3-10 [3], And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
    [4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    [5], And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    [6], Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
    [7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose, the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    [9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

    WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?

    Revelation 12
    17,
    And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

    Revelation 14
    12,
    Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

    Revelation 22
    14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,
    and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

    ROMANS 1:5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

    Romans 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


    DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?

    ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.


    WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THOSE WHO CONTINUE IN SIN ONCE THEY RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH?

    HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

    Indeed, those who CONTINUE IN SIN will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    .................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
     
  17. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +5,703
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Indeed this is the problem of some who respond to posts that they have not bothered to read.
     
  18. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

    +1,187
    Non-Denom
    Married

    Can you show us in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostles commanded us to gather on Saturday to worship Jesus?


    JLB
     
  19. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,779
    Christian
    Married
    Well I wonder why???? I believe we all have pleaded with you to condense your posts, but no because you are never ever wrong about anything. Oh wait, I do remember you trying to tell us that transient means transfer. I never received any recognition from you for pointing out that it doesn't. Oh wait, Have you ever admitted you were wrong?
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

    +7,170
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Matthew 5 "do not even think that I came to reduce or abolish the LAW"
    Mark 2:27 "the SABBATH was MADE for mankind"
    Acts 18:4 "EVERY Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles gathered in the synagogue to hear Gospel preaching - and as they heard they were believing -- yet still meeting "every Sabbath".
    Isaiah 66:23 for "all eternity after the cross" -- "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" - in the New Earth.
    Acts 15 - the Christian church "solution" relies on the fact that "every Sabbath Moses is preached in the Synagogues"
    Hebrew 4 'there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God"

    None of that is said in either OT or NT about "week-day-1"
     
Loading...