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GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. listed

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    Your proof that Adam had and was required to keep the sabbath is...

    Adam wasn't delivered from Egypt.
     
  2. listed

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    If it weren't so sad I would do the same.
     
  3. listed

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    I need to get honest people to ask questions. I don't believe those promoting the law for salvation are honest with themselves much less others. I think this is based on the deception they fully embrace just like the scribes and Pharisees.
     
  4. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

    13 By calling this covenant ‘new’,
    he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

    7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

    Were the laws that Moses wrote in the book of the law God's commandments? Somehow, according to you, the book of laws were "shadow commands" if I am reading you correctly and we are not under Shadow commands. Are the following commands from the book shadow commands? If not how would one go about cherry picking the ones that aren't part of God's "my law" commands? God commanded Israel to observe 8 feast days and the new moon days. They were Sabbaths just like the ones you quoted in EZE 22:26.

    Leviticus 19:18
    Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

    Deuteronomy 6:5

    and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

    Is the tithing command a shadow command and how about the unclean and clean animal command?

     
  5. listed

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    The OT isn't the words of Jesus. You can quote it till you're blue. Since you add to the words of the Scripture you violate Deuteronomy 4:2. ​
     
  6. listed

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    Amen
     
  7. listed

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    You posted the verse. You didn't say who it applies to or even to whom it's spoken to. Your idea seems to be the whole world when in fact the ten commandments are given only to Israel per Moses in Deuteronomy 5.
     
  8. listed

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    Say what ever you like, but the OT has nothing to do with Christianity.
    The covenant called the old covenant is written on 2 stone tablets per Deuteronomy 4:13. It's called the old covenant because it's replaced. It's the only covenant so affected.
     
  9. listed

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    God taking counsel of men. That's a good one.
     
  10. listed

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    I'm not ignorant as you promote.
     
  11. listed

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    No the issue is you don't accept the new covenant. It doesn't matter what the old covenant is, well was.
     
  12. listed

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    The verse preceding your quoted verse won't allow for your intended meaning.
     
  13. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    What is the difference between the 10 Commandments in Old Testament and the 10 Commandments today?


    Please explain how the commandment to keep the Sabbath has changed from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.



    JLB
     
  14. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    I just don't know what you believe. Even though we are not under the old law, we are not lawless. Lawlessness is just as bad. What laws ARE we under. That is what I don't know from your posts.
     
  15. Marco70

    Marco70 Well-Known Member

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    When Paul used the term ''not under law'' he meant not under a law of righteousness. In this sense the Christian is not under law.
    Does this mean a Christian can be lawless???
    No! For the law God desires a believer to follow is written in their mind and placed on their heart at the point of conversion. It is not a law of righteousness. It simply means, in your mind you know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to live as God desires you to live for that is where the law has been placed, in your heart

    Now if you in your heart want to obey God, you do not need to be under the law You could never view being free from being under the law as a licence to sin/be lawless, for in your heart you want to live as God desires you to live.

    Don't know why this is so hard to understand
     
  16. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    What do you believe that John 5:24 teaches that is different than what I shared in the matters of the "heareth" and "believeth"? Are these not a continual action with a beginning, rather than merely a one time off event?

    The verse speaks of assurance, as it is in Christ Jesus. However, that assurance does not take away my freedom to walk away. This was the point I was attempting to get across. It is paralleled in Romans 8:31-39 KJB.

    I do not hear "despair", nor "condemnation". I clearly showed that the text speaks of the "believing" Christian, will not come into "condmenation", which is ultimately the second death. That is the assurance.

    However, it does not take away from the facts that all persons, will be judged by God, as the texts cited show. I do not need to make up any theologies in this. And since those texts are as valid as John 5:24 KJB, then they are to be studied together.

    Most people have a wrong understanding of the Investigative Judgment. Is it an awesome and most serious thing? Absolutely, but it doesn't take away the assurance in Christ, nor the promises. It merely allows for the testing of the faith, and all faith must be tested, for there are true and false professing persons. If the faith is genuine, what unnecessary fear?

    1 John 4:18 KJB - There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
    If the faith were not so tested, sin could end up in Heaven all over again.

    It will not be a matter of "tried". It is a matter of walking by the promises of God [New Covenant, "I will ...", thus the just living by faith, and so doing according to that "faith of Jesus". God brings those who will believe to completion, as He is the Author and the Finisher.

    Revelation 22:14 KJB - Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.​

    Jesus Christ is the spiritual Tree of Life, notice:

    John 6:57 KJB - As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.​

    Eating the words of Jesus, brings spiritual life. It is not a one time 'eating' and 'drinking'. It must be a 'daily' 'eating' and 'drinking' in His presence. It, again, is a continual ongoing, and even eternal, faith that must be alive.

    Yes, Jesus is the door [which is sanctuary language], and in Him is no sin [1 John 3:4 KJB]. See the condition? We must allow Him to cleanse us from "all unrighteousness" -- of every last sin, and tht includes transgression of HIs 4th Commandment in regards the 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD [Exodus 20:8-11 KJB]. If I may share a bit more on this door, as Paul mentions something very important:

    There is a "door of faith":

    Acts 14:27 KJB - And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.​

    How does one have this "door" opened? Natural to spiritual. We "knock", through asking, by Prayer, to God:

    Matthew 7:7 KJB - Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

    Luke 11:9 KJB - And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.​

    Now, notice the door of the human heart, does Jesus have Faith when He calls unto us? Doesn't He continually knock? Every knock is in Faith.

    Revelation 3:20 KJB - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.​

    Laodicea, is interesting, in that since Jesus is outside, and He is the light, where then is the darkness? How then an a person see to open the door when the Light is outside? Notice that Laodicea has eye problems, and notice the counterfeit "light":

    Matthew 6:23 KJB - But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!​

    Prophecy is the lesser light [like the moon, reflecting the Light of the Sun], that leads us to the Sun of Righteousnes:

    2 Peter 1:19 KJB - We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

    1 Corinthians 4:5 KJB - Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

    2 Corinthians 4:6 KJB - For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.​

    Truly, as Jesus said:

    Mark 4:24 KJB - And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

    Luke 8:18 KJB - Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.
    And thus all the other statements on those that have ears to hear, etc, especially in Revelation, for we ought to hear what the Holy Spriit says to the churches.

    Ok. Do you see no connection to the Investigateive Judgment then, since people can fall away, in obvious, but there may be those who have fallen away in heart, but have an outward profession, of which the human cannot tell, but God can, beginning with the deceased, and finally at the living, as in Leviticus 16?

    Yet, it is a part of it.

    Ok [matters of books of life to death, etc].

    Listed, they are not 'my' verses. I did not write them. I am not their author. I can neither add not subtract to what God has said. I included both the negative and the positive aspects, from OT to NT. The central one in blue was:

    Revelation 3:5 KJB - He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.​

    How is this verse, and all others like it, "only despair"? I see it as the fulfillment of God's promises ion the New Covenant, in that He will have brought us back to sinlessness, and as though we had never sinned! Despair? Not in the least, from where I stand:

    1 John 5:4 KJB - For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

    1 John 5:5 KJB - Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

    Revelation 2:7 KJB - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

    Revelation 2:11 KJB - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

    Revelation 2:17 KJB - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

    Revelation 2:26 KJB - And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

    Revelation 3:5 KJB - He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

    Revelation 3:12 KJB - Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

    Revelation 3:21 KJB - To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

    Revelation 21:7 KJB - He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.​

    Have ye never sung the song, "Faith is the victory?"

    Overcome what? Doubt, fear, satan, selfishness, sin ...


    Ask yourself, just as a personal favour to a brother, Do I have Joshua and Caleb's faith, or that of the others? What "spirit" do I have? Love or fear? Faith or doubt in the promises of God? I have to ask myself these very things. Christ Jesus was with them, as He will be with us, since He does not change.


    Listed, we can have total victory over every sin, in the here and now, even victory over sin daily. It is possible, in Christ Jesus to overcome all things, and to walk with God in His commandments. All of them. Faith. Why did Israel of old fail? it wasn't because the commandments were too hard:

    Romans 9:32 KJB - Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    Hebrews 4:2 KJB - For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
     
  17. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    I pray not Listed. Really. My Great High Priest, Jesus Christ, is in the Most Holy Place, and will forgive sin, if we come to Him, to have it forgiven and cleansed. We cannot enter heaven, while we remain in any sin. It is up to us to go to Christ, by listening to His pleading with us by/through the Holy Ghost. He cannot/will not make us come to Him. He draws by love. However, there is a time limit Listed, to overcome our personal sins. It cannot go on forever, for that would immortalize sin and sinners. Sin has a limited time:

    James 1:15 KJB - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.​

    The bells, heard, are the prophetic events we can hear/see unfold.

    If you would need to see the scriptures for the movements of the Father and the Son in the Heavenly Sanctuayr above, I can provide those to you. Just ask. I do not mind, really.

    If you re-read what I stated, the good news is Christ Jesus, who grants us the victory to keep His commandments. In other words, He does what His name means, JEHOVAH is Salvation, from sins. matthew 1:21 KJB.

    That is a misunderstanding of what I stated. I do not promote living by law. I stated very clearly that the Just [<--- notice this word please] live [continually] by faith, and this is the root. Obedience [to God's law] through that Faith, is the fruit. in otherwords, obeidence to God in all His commandments is the outward manifestation of real living faith. Same with Abraham, etc. Because He really believe, he acted upon that belief, or manifested actions based upon that belief.

    You ought to, and so we all, as Christ Jesus died also for them, and a tare can become wheat by the grace of God. Not all, but some.

    I believe God is greater than this sentiment, and through His creative power, can transform any life, if they desire it so. Even GOd's love is shown in the allowance of letting the tares remain among the wheat, for in so doing the wheat may show forth the love of God to them. For tares will tell what is in the soil of the heart. One can learn a lot from the garden, the natural to the spiritual.

    You are a pastor then? May I ask where at? Generally would be fine, just asking, you do not have to answer.

    I believe so too. How I long to see some come to saving faith, even if they did not understand everything at the first.

    I have a great sermon in my heart, I heard preached by a good brother on the wedding garment, and its connection to the coat of many colors, the true 'gay' clothing.

    Yes, we must have on "Christ". Adorn:

    Romans 13:14 KJB - But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

    Galatians 3:27 KJB - For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    Titus 2:10 KJB - Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
    But this ties right back into Mattew 22:11 and the Investigative Judgment:

    Matthew 22:11 KJB - And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:​

    When does this take place Listed?

    To be clothed with Christ Jesus, is to walk in all the commandments:

    1 John 2:6 KJB - He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    John 15:10 KJB - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.​

    God forbid, that I should try to intimidate you. I do hope that you may sit with me over these things, and look again. It is about study of the scripture together, and to humbly admit where we [<--- notice] are wrong. God is always right. If we come to any place in scripture and know that we are wrong, and do not humbly admit that we are wrong, we actually take up the spirit of satan at that point, and claim infallibility, and thus charge God with the error, in effect, saying we ought to be God, and God ought to judge by our ideas/words, and not our ideas/words by Him.
     
  18. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    I understand time contraints. However, if I go back to the date of my post, and consider the time spent by some since it has been posted in other locations, my question would then be, could not a little of that time have been taken to consider the evidences presented in the other thread also?

    Ok, I understand [I think].

    May I ask you though, why do you spend the time you do here? For instance, I know why I do, but I am curious as to you. Is it so important to you, that you oppose those who teach to keep the 4th commandment? Is that so wrong a belief [in your perspective] that the time you do spend here is not better spent in those other things? I am just asking. I am curious to know.
     
  19. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    You mean that you do not believe in the [angelic] legions of light and the [angelic] legions of lie-ght [darkness]? if so, can I show you from scripture [KJB]? If not, can you explain a little more, for I am not sure I caught your meaning. Please.
     
  20. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Actually, spiritually, he was. Egypt is symbolic of the world/worldliness/sin, numerous texts on that [see also "spiritually Egypt" in Revelation 11:8 KJB, Isaiah 19:1,3, "the heart of Egypt", "the spirit of Egypt", see also Exodus 20:2; Deuteronomy 5:6 "house of bondage"; Hebrews 11:24-27, "pleasures of sin"; Jeremiah 9:26, "uncircumcised of heart"; 2 Timothy 3:8, "resist the truth" &c]. However, if we look at the Ten Commandments [Exodus 20:1-17 KJB], in Exodus 20:2 [Deuteronomy 5:6 KJB] KJB is the preamble so to speak [not an actual commandment], of God's saving Grace. Exodus 20:3 [Deuteronomy 5:7] KJB, is the actual first commandment, which is:

    Exodus 20:3 KJB - Thou shalt have no other gods before me.​
     
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