GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

[BNR32FAN]

We need to back up a bit. What are the spiritual and moral principles underlying the sabbath and clarified by Christ? Are they not (1) rest from daily labor, (2) worship, and (3) good works? Were these principles not practiced by the Lord, and was He not condemned because of His good works?

But Christ could not arise from the dead on the sabbath day, because it was indeed God's day of rest. So He arose on "the morrow after the sabbath", and is called the First Fruits of them that slept, thus indicating that He fulfilled the feast of First Fruits. And the morrow after the sabbath is the first day of the week, which the Lord authorized to be known as "the Lord's Day". The apostle John could only mention "the Lord's Day" if they Lord Himself had sanctified it.

That would be the day when the Lord's people would gather around the Lord's Table for the Lord's Supper. And it would become the Christian day of rest, worship and good works. We see in the New Testament that the first day of the week was set aside for worship, and ever since the Lord's Day has been observed by Christians over th centuries as the Christian sabbath.

It also happens to be the 8th day, and 8 is the number of a New Creation in Scripture. Circumcision was on the 8th day. So the Church came into existence on the morrow after the sabbath, the Day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the earth from Heaven, and about 3,000 souls were saved.

Just because it happens to be called "Sunday" has no bearing on spiritual truth. Every day of the week is connected to some pagan god, but Christians simply accept that and ignore it.

I guess we have different beliefs on who God is. I am confident that Jesus Christ will acknowledge me before The Father. He died for my sins. God called me to Jesus and the Holy Spirit has guided me. I am also confident that He will finish the work He has begun in me. God bless.

 

[1stcenturylady]

There is not a single scripture that says "Jewish sabbath", or "sabbath of the Jews". It is a myth.
​

13 “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Does anyone else want to answer why God created the Sabbath at the end of creation week? God wasn't tired, so what spiritual significance did it foreshadow?

@BobRyan , @LoveGodsWord , @EastCoastRemnant ?

 

[The7thColporteur]

The "Rest" of Hebrews 4 is the gospel. And what do you believe is the gospel?

Hebrews 4 deals with the entering into the "rest" of God's grace [which is provided in Christ Jesus; 1 Corinthians 1:4; 2 Timothy 2:1 KJB], and as such, includes keeping His commandments [because Grace received redeems from the power of sin, being a power greater than sin; 2 Corinthians 12:9 KJB], even the 4th commandment in the specificity of His Holy 7th day the Sabbath [Exodus 33:14,16,19, 34:9 KJB & Matthew 11:28 KJB], as Paul said elsewhere:

Romans 6:15 KJB - What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.​

Again, this is not about earning justification [as it is writtten: Romans 3:24 KJB]. It's about living in justification that came by God's grace through faith.

Ephesians 2:10 KJB - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Proverbs 2:20 KJB - That thou mayest walk in the way of good men, and keep the paths of the righteous.​

Hebrews 4:11 KJB - Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
​

I have many more pages on Hebrews 4, and where Paul is specifically quoting and drawing from: Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Nehemiah, Psalms, Ezekiel. I also have a great deal of documentation on the word "sabbatismos", and in it's own context.

Therefore "cease" from thine own "works", thine own "ways", and take up His "good works" and His "ways", His "commandments" [John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB]:

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. [ie the whole "good work" of man]

Ecclesiastes 12:14 KJB - For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Romans 7:12 KJB - Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.​

Mark 3:4 KJB - And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

2 Corinthians 9:8 KJB - And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Colossians 1:10 KJB - That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Psalms 119:66 KJB - Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments.​

Hebrews 13:21 KJB - Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Psalms 40:8 KJB - I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Matthew 6:10 KJB - Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.​

Be not as these [Ephesians 2:2, 5:6; Colossians 3:6 KJB]:

Titus 1:16 KJB - They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.​

 

[The7thColporteur]

13 “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.

There are the 12 tribes of Israel, not all them of Judah [Jews], including those of Levi - Moses, Aaron, Miriam, etc, etc.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Hebrews 4 deals with the entering into the "rest" of God's grace [which is provided in Christ Jesus; 1 Corinthians 1:4; 2 Timothy 2:1 KJB], and as such, includes keeping His commandments [because Grace received redeems from the power of sin, being a power greater than sin; 2 Corinthians 12:9 KJB], even the 4th commandment in the specificity of His Holy 7th day the Sabbath [Exodus 33:14,16,19, 34:9 KJB & Matthew 11:28 KJB], as Paul said elsewhere:

Romans 6:15 KJB - What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.​

Again, this is not about earning justification [as it is writtten: Romans 3:24 KJB]. It's about living in justification that came by God's grace through faith.

Ephesians 2:10 KJB - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Hebrews 4:11 KJB - Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
​

I have many more pages on Hebrews 4, and where Paul is specifically quoting and drawing from: Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Nehemiah, Psalms, Ezekiel. I also have a great deal of documentation on the word "sabbatismos", and in it's own context.

Therefore "cease" from thine own "works", and take up His "good works":

Mar_3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

Ecc_12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

2Co_9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Col_1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Heb_13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.​

Be not as these:

Tit_1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.​

I agree that it has to do with entering God's grace, but there is a new way to keep the commandments, and which commandments. These two supersede the 10, but if you keep these two you automatically keep the 10, including the 4th, because belief in Jesus keeps the 4th as it pointed the the gospel. 1 John 3:23

 

[1stcenturylady]

There are the 12 tribes of Israel, not all them of Judah [Jews], including those of Levi - Moses, Aaron, Miriam, etc, etc.

But this was said before they split so it doesn't matter.

 

[The7thColporteur]

But this was said before they split so it doesn't matter.

Yeah they were "Hebrews" [same as Abraham]. It does matter. You are in error.

 

[The7thColporteur]

I agree that it has to do with entering God's grace...

Good, then you begin to sound like sister White:

“There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. ... Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.” [Hebrews 4:9, 11.] The rest here spoken of is the rest of grace, obtained by following the prescription, “Labor diligently.” Those who learn of Jesus His meekness and lowliness find rest in the experience of practicing His lessons. It is not in indolence, in selfish ease and pleasure-seeking, that rest is obtained. Those who are unwilling to give the Lord faithful, earnest, loving service will not find spiritual rest in this life or in the life to come. Only from earnest labor comes peace and joy in the Holy Spirit—happiness on earth and glory hereafter. Ms42-1901 (June 2, 1901) par. 12

Let us therefore labor. Speak often words that will be a strength and an inspiration to those who hear. We are altogether too indifferent in regard to one another. We forget that our fellow laborers are often in need of words of hope and cheer. When one is in trouble, call upon him and speak comforting words to him. This is true friendship. Ms42-1901 (June 2, 1901) par. 13

Labor for those who are loitering away their lives, accomplishing only half of what they might for the Master. Strive to arouse them to a sense of their responsibility. Pray for and exhort one another, and so much the more as ye see the day approaching. Let brother say to brother and sister to sister, “Come, my fellow laborer, let us put all earnestness into our work; for the night is at hand, wherein no man can work.” Let no one lose minutes by talking when he should be working. Let the talkative man remember that there are times when he has no right to talk. There are those who take time to stand still. Let the voice of the faithful sentinel be heard, “Not slothful in business, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord.” [Romans 12:11.] Have you work to do for the Master? Is it building a house in which His work may be carried forward? Close your lips. Make not others idle by tempting them to listen to your talk. The time of many is lost when a man uses his tongue instead of his tools. Ms42-1901 (June 2, 1901) par. 14 ..." - Ms 42, 1901 (June 2, 1901) par. 12​

 

[1stcenturylady]

Yeah they were "Hebrews" [same as Abraham]. It does matter. You are in error.

Possibly according to you, but I care more what God thinks. Do you believe that if I am convinced that keeping the Sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus, and love and trust only Jesus without keeping the Sabbath I will be saved?

 

[The7thColporteur]

I...These two supersede the 10,...

The 2: [1] "love God ..." and [2] "love neighbour [near brother]", found in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:17-18 are in the context of the Ten Commandments, "these words" [Deuteronomy 6:6 KJB]

They encapsulate the whole Law, not negate the details of the Law:

Mark 12:29 KJB - And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Mark 12:30 KJB - And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mark 12:31 KJB - And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.​

Thus:

Matthew 22:40 KJB - On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
​

Thus Paul speaking of the second Table:

Romans 13:9 KJB - For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.​

 

[The7thColporteur]

Possibly according to you, but I care more what God thinks. Do you believe that if I am convinced that keeping the Sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus, and love and trust only Jesus without keeping the Sabbath I will be saved?

No, because you have more light than that.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The 2: [1] "love God ..." and [2] "love neighbour [near brother]", found in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:17-18 are in the context of the Ten Commandments, "these words" [Deuteronomy 6:6 KJB]

They encapsulate the whole Law, not negate the details of the Law:

Mark 12:29 KJB - And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Mark 12:30 KJB - And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mark 12:31 KJB - And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.​

Thus:

Matthew 22:40 KJB - On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
​

Thus Paul speaking of the second Table:

Romans 13:9 KJB - For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.​

I put the text that contains the two I was speaking of. 1 John 3:23 "This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us."

If you will notice, keeping the Sabbath Day is not in these NC commandments.

 

[1stcenturylady]

No, because you have more light than that.

You would be amazed how much light I have, which is why I trust Jesus and am anxious for nothing. And I love my neighbors, even you. I don't mind your condemnation. It is not your house I'm going to.

 

[The7thColporteur]

I put the text that contains the two I was speaking of. 1 John 3:23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

If you will notice, keeping the Sabbath Day is not in these NC commandments.

1 John 2:1 KJB - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 2:2 KJB - And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:3 KJB - And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB.​

1 John 2:4 KJB - He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 2:5 KJB - But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 2:6 KJB - He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Luke 4:16-19 KJB
​

You cannot love, as Jesus loved while knowingly not keeping His 7th Day Holy, when you have the light to do so, as you do. You say "love", but it is empty... a husk ... free-lovism. Spiritualistic nothing. For in knowing as you know, you transgress the one, they are all broken, not kept.

 

[The7thColporteur]

You would be amazed how much light I have, which is why I trust Jesus and am anxious for nothing. And I love my neighbors, even you. I don't mind your condemnation. It is not your house I'm going to.

What men call 'light' these days is darkness.

Isaiah 5:20 KJB - Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Proverbs 2:13 KJB - Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness;​

You call God's Ten Commandments?

Proverbs 6:23 KJB - For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
​

How readest thou?

1 John 2:7 KJB - Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

1 John 2:8 KJB - Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

1 John 2:9 KJB - He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1 John 2:10 KJB - He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

1 John 2:11 KJB - But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
​

What was love Jesus? Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:17-18 ... Obeying God in His Ten Commandments... John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB.

 

[1stcenturylady]

1 John 2:1 KJB - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 2:2 KJB - And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:3 KJB - And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB.​

1 John 2:4 KJB - He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 2:5 KJB - But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 2:6 KJB - He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Luke 4:16-19 KJB
​

You cannot love, as Jesus loved while knowingly not keeping His 7th Day Holy, when you have the light to do so, as you do. You say "love", but it is empty... a husk ... free-lovism. Spiritualistic nothing. For in knowing as you know, you transgress the one, they are all broken, not kept.

Yes, I can. But you can't, so don't try. One thing you need to be aware of it the apostle who you are quoting and what he means by commandments. For instance, John 15:10

10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

You assume they are the identical set of commandments, but the commandments of Jesus are listed in 1 John 3:23. They don't contradict the Father's, but are fleshed out. Belief in Jesus fulfills the first 4 commandments of the Father, and love your neighbor covers the last 6.

23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Friend, for some reason I've developed a headache this evening, so I'm going to bed. So don't be surprised if you answer and I don't reply till tomorrow. Good night, friend and brother.

 

[1stcenturylady]

What men call 'light' these days is darkness.

Isaiah 5:20 KJB - Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Proverbs 2:13 KJB - Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness;​

You call God's Ten Commandments?

Proverbs 6:23 KJB - For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
​

What do you say?

1 John 2:7 KJB - Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

1 John 2:8 KJB - Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

1 John 2:9 KJB - He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1 John 2:10 KJB - He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

1 John 2:11 KJB - But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
​

What was love Jesus? Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:17-18 ... Obeying God in His Ten Commandments... John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB.

Just noticed you are quoting John again. Just remember what I pointed out to you about what he believes are the NC commandments.

Also, I agree we are in the last days where right will be called wrong, and wrong, right. Our last president personified such a person. But I believe Trump is God's man and will shock the world by overturning some of the filthy laws of the past.

 

[Marco70]

Perhaps God has brought you here for a reason so you can have a closer walk with him.

How can you accept anyone as a Christian who has no consciousness of sin if they fail to observe a set Saturday Sabbath:

‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17

The law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart. What is in your mind you in your mind must know, and the law in your heart MUST bring heartfelt conviction of sin if you wilfully transgress it, for: through the law we become conscioius of sin(rom 3:20). Therefore, if a person has no conviction of sin concerning not following a set Saturday Sabbath, only two things are possible. Either God did not write in their mind and place on their heart a law that states they must observe a set Saturday Sabbath, or they cannot be a Christian.
People will never have a closer walk with God if they listen to people who do not understand the core foundation upon which the Christian faith stands.

 

[The7thColporteur]

Yes, I can. But you can't, so don't try. One thing you need to be aware of it the apostle who you are quoting and what he means by commandments. For instance, John 15:10

10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

You assume they are the identical set of commandments, but the commandments of Jesus are listed in 1 John 3:23. They don't contradict the Father's, but are fleshed out. Belief in Jesus fulfills the first 4 commandments of the Father, and love your neighbor covers the last 6.

23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Friend, for some reason I've developed a headache this evening, so I'm going to bed. So don't be surprised if you answer and I don't reply till tomorrow. Good night, friend and brother.

There is "one lawgiver", not two [James 4:12 KJB]. The "commandment" in 1 John 3:23 is the "Father's" commandment, which contains 2 things:

1 John 3:23 KJB - And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.​

[1] "believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ"

[2] "love one another, as he gave us commandment"​

Wherein/when did God, tell us to "love one another"?

John 13:34 KJB - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 15:12 KJB - This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

John 15:17 KJB - These things I command you, that ye love one another.
​

Jesus how did you love us?

The Ten commandments. again see Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:17-18; Exodus 20:6; John 14:15.

That which Jesus spoke on Mt. Sinai was His Father's Commandments, as Jesus said:

John 12:49 KJB - For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.​

John 10:30 KJB - I and my Father are one.​

Jesus walked in all the Commandment of God as the example of love:

John 15:10 KJB - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.​

1 Thessalonians 4:9 KJB - But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

1 Peter 2:21 KJB - For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:​

Jesus how did you walk with God the Father in the Spirit?

Luke 4:16 KJB - And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luke 4:17 KJB - And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

Luke 4:18 KJB - The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,​

John 8:46 KJB - Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?​