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God's unconditional promises to the ancient nation of Israel

Discussion in 'Dispensationalism' started by Biblewriter, Jul 16, 2021.

  1. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Ruth also married Boaz, a Jew. Wouldn’t this also constitute her being grafted into Israel?
     
  2. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Ezekiel 36:1-10 could not even possibly have been fulfilled in a remnant. For it explicitly says that "all the house of Israel, all of it," will again inhabit the "mountains of Israel," along with "the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken, which became plunder and mockery to the rest of the nations all around."

    Ezekiel 37:21-25 says, "Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
    "David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children's children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever.

    As they have never had a king since they were carried away into Babylon, and as they ceased to dwell in the land after their return from Babylon, this prophecy was unquestionably not fulfilled at that time.

    Ezekiel 47:13-20 has unquestionably never fulfilled, for it explicitly defined the future borders of the land. Yet it has never had these borders.

    Ezekiel 48 has never been fulfilled, for it specifies which part of the PLOT OF REAL ESTATE defined in Ezekiel 47:13-20 will go to each of the twelve tribes of Israel, naming each of these twelve tribes.

    These are just a few of the prophecies that were unquestionably not fulfilled in the return from Babylon.

    And even the New Testament explicitly says that "the promises" still "pertain" to Paul's "countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites." (Romans 9:3-4) And that, these unbelieving Jews, though "Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:28-29)
     
  3. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    That would be all the house of true Israel, for not all Israel is Israel (Romans 9:6-7).

    God has permanently separated Abraham's descendants before between Israel and true Israel, in the descendants of Ishmael and Isaac, and again in the descendants of Esau and Jacob--both being a pattern of things to come in the NT, where he has likewise permanently separated believing Israel, the remnant, in whom the irrevocable call and gifts (Romans 11:29) are being fulfilled (Romans 11:1-5), and unbelieving Israel, who has been cut off (Romans 11:17-19), and whose destiny, IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief (Romans 11:23), is to be grafted back into the one olive tree of God's people, which goes all the way back to Abraham (Romans 11:16-17); i.e., the NT church, of both OT and NT saints (Hebrews 12:22-23).
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
  4. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    But that "abid[ing] not in unbelief" is itself promised to Israel.


    33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
    34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." Jeremiah 31:33-34


    3 And it shall come to pass that he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy--everyone who is recorded among the living in Jerusalem.
    4 When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and purged the blood of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning, Isaiah 4:3-4

    10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
    11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.
    12 And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves;
    13 the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves;
    14 all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves. Zechariah 12:10-14
     
  5. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    And is being fulfilled in true Israel, the remnant of the last two millennia.
     
  6. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    No, the promises apply AFTER Messiah returns, as is clearly taught in the last chapter of Isaiah.


    15 For behold, the LORD will come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire.
    16 For by fire and by His sword The LORD will judge all flesh; And the slain of the LORD shall be many.
    17 "Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves, To go to the gardens After an idol in the midst, Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall be consumed together," says the LORD.
    18 "For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory.
    19 I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles.
    20 Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the LORD out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem," says the LORD, "as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
    21 And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites," says the LORD. Isaiah 66:15-21
     
  7. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Which personal interpretation of that prophetic riddle (Numbers 12:8) is not in agreement with authoritative NT teaching.
     
  8. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    And Boaz was the son of Rahab the harlot (a Canaanite), also grafted into Israel by faith.


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  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:


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  10. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    This is NOT a "personal interpretation of prophetic riddle." It is what is plainly stated in a learly stated prophecy, made in plain, clear, wirds, not in a "riddle."
     
  11. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The scriptures could not be more plain in explicitly stating that, at the time these prophecies apply, the remnant of Israel that has survived to that time, will be both the entirety of that nation that is left, and will ALL both be back in the land and be converted to a true faith in their God.

    So, although it will be only a remnant of Israel that is saved, yet that remnant will be "ALL Israel," as Romans 11:26 puts it, and "ALL the house of Israel, ALL of it," as Isaiah 36:10 puts it, and "they ALL shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," as Jeremiah 31:34 puts it.



     
  12. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Except God says he gives prophecy in riddles, and not clearly (Numbers 12:8). You are interpreting literally what is actually figurative.
     
  13. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    God most certainly never said that all the prophecies He gave were stated in riddles. MANY of the prophecies in the Bible are clearly stated in plain language. You PRETEND that it is all stated in riddles so you THINK you have an excuse for DENYING what God so plainly said.
     
  14. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You quoted only part of Romans 11:26, which is common among those attempting to make Dispensational Theology work.

    Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
    Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?


    Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


    The Greek word "houto" (English=so) in Romans 11:26 is an adverb of manner, instead of an adverb of timing.

    .
     
  15. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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  16. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    You are willfully ignoring the fact that, just a few verses later. The Holy Spirit said, of the unbelieving Jews, that, “ Concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers sake. For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.”

    And that, two chapters earlier, the same Holy Spirit had said that “the promises” still “pertain” to Paul’s “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites.”
     
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You are attempting to ignore the fact that there are two separate sets of Israelites in Romans chapter 11. In Romans 11:1-5 we find the Baal worshipers and the faithful "remnant".

    There are also two groups in Romans 11:28. There is a group of "they" who accept Christ and are the "election". There is another group of "they" who reject Christ and are the "enemies" of God and Christ, just like the Baal worshippers.


    Rom 11:28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.


    .
     
  18. power1

    power1 Member

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    He does that after they repent in the end.
    That will come true one day, It is not unconditional though, since they need to receive Jesus first. That is the condition. After they do, He does all that. Not today.
    The rest of your post seems to be in the same vein.
     
  19. power1

    power1 Member

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    The Messiah is the promise. He will save them when they repent. Not before.
     
  20. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    So you also agree that there is a "future salvation" for the nation of Israel?
     
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