God's relationship with groups

[cloudyday2]

In the ancient world, most religions seemed to see the relationship between God and a group rather than God and an individual.

For example, God made a covenant with the nation of Israel rather than with individual Israelites. God blessed or cursed the entire nation of Israel based on its behavior.

In the polytheistic world it seems to have been similar. The city or nation collectively gave honor to a god and hoped for collective benefits.

The Christian Church might be analogous to the nation of Israel. The Church is the Body of Christ, so each believer might need to relate to God through the Church rather than directly.

 

[Jonaitis]

In the ancient world, most religions seemed to see the relationship between God and a group rather than God and an individual.

For example, God made a covenant with the nation of Israel rather than with individual Israelites. God blessed or cursed the entire nation of Israel based on its behavior.

In the polytheistic world it seems to have been similar. The city or nation collectively gave honor to a god and hoped for collective benefits.

The Christian Church might be analogous to the nation of Israel. The Church is the Body of Christ, so each believer might need to relate to God through the Church rather than directly.

God has always made himself known by way of covenant, and that to a group represented by a federal head figure (Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, and Jesus). However, he also presents himself as a God toward the members of the covenant individually by way of their entering that covenant community. He doesn't only bless the group generally, but individually as each person is a member of and have a share in the promises of that community. It is seen as "I will be God to all the member through this individual."

If we want to talk about the ancient world, individual blessing from the "gods" was not an uncommon belief. Even in Greek, Roman, and Norse religions believed that individuals could have some special favor (like in the Illiad, Apollo sought revenge for his priest whose daughter was taken by Agamenon).

 

[Jonaitis]

For example, God made a covenant with the nation of Israel rather than with individual Israelites. God blessed or cursed the entire nation of Israel based on its behavior.

Actually, God eventually made the royal house the representative of the nation. In the biblical histories, we read that after setting up the perpetual throne of David by way of covenant, Israel was blessed or cursed according to the fidelity of the king to God.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The Christian Church might be analogous to the nation of Israel. The Church is the Body of Christ, so each believer might need to relate to God through the Church rather than directly.

Well, not exactly. Each Israelite still related to God directly.

Not to say that the nation didn't also, and each Israelite as a result, but it was also each Israelite as a cause. I think you are jumping a few logical steps to think we should relate to God "through the Church".

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi @cloudyday2, here are just a couple of the passages in the Bible that help us understand just how intimately God knows each one of us, one from the OT and the other from the New.

Psalm 139
1 O LORD, You have searched me and known me.
2 You know when I sit down and when I rise up;
You understand my thought from afar.
3 You scrutinize my path and my lying down,
And are intimately acquainted with all my ways.
4 Even before there is a word on my tongue,
Behold, O LORD, You know it all.
5 You have enclosed me behind and before,
And laid Your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
It is too high, I cannot attain to it.

7 Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend to heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the dawn,
If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand will lead me,
And Your right hand will lay hold of me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will overwhelm me,
And the light around me will be night,”
12 Even the darkness is not dark to You,
And the night is as bright as the day.
Darkness and light are alike to You.

13 For You formed my inward parts;
You wove me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Your works,
And my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.

Matthew 10
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.
30 Even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 So do not be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.​

--David

 

[GospelS]

In the ancient world, most religions seemed to see the relationship between God and a group rather than God and an individual.

For example, God made a covenant with the nation of Israel rather than with individual Israelites. God blessed or cursed the entire nation of Israel based on its behavior.

In the polytheistic world it seems to have been similar. The city or nation collectively gave honor to a god and hoped for collective benefits.

The Christian Church might be analogous to the nation of Israel. The Church is the Body of Christ, so each believer might need to relate to God through the Church rather than directly.

God made a covenant with (individuals) Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob whom God renamed as Israel. Because of the covenant made with their forefathers, God has maintained his covenant relationship with the people of Israel.

Since each believer is a part in the body of Christ, each believer relates to God through Christ with whom the covenant is established to all who believe and receive him.

 

[Tolworth John]

In the ancient world, most religions seemed to see the relationship between God and a group rather than God and an individual.

For example, God made a covenant with the nation of Israel rather than with individual Israelites. God blessed or cursed the entire nation of Israel based on its behavior.

In the polytheistic world it seems to have been similar. The city or nation collectively gave honor to a god and hoped for collective benefits.

The Christian Church might be analogous to the nation of Israel. The Church is the Body of Christ, so each believer might need to relate to God through the Church rather than directly.

The NT speaks to individuals about their responcibility to get right with God.

 

[cloudyday2]

Well, not exactly. Each Israelite still related to God directly.

Not to say that the nation didn't also, and each Israelite as a result, but it was also each Israelite as a cause. I think you are jumping a few logical steps to think we should relate to God "through the Church".

Let's take stoning as an example. Everybody was expected to pick up a stone and throw it at the sinful person. It was a way for the community to express its disapproval of sin and restore the relationship between the community and God.

Ancient people thought the gods were responsible for good harvests and bad harvests and military victories and defeats.

The importance of the relationship between the group and God has been lost. Now people don't think God does anything except giving random individuals a warm fuzzy feeling sometimes. It's all about individuals with their individual issues seeking individual benefits. That's an exaggeration of course.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The importance of the relationship between the group and God has been lost. Now people don't think God does anything except giving random individuals a warm fuzzy feeling sometimes. It's all about individuals with their individual issues seeking individual benefits. That's an exaggeration of course.

I agree with this completely. It is an important loss, in my opinion.

 

[Mark Quayle]

God made a covenant with (individuals) Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob whom God renamed as Israel. Because of the covenant made with their forefathers, God has maintained his covenant relationship with the people of Israel.

Since each believer is a part in the body of Christ, each believer relates to God through Christ with whom the covenant is established to all who believe and receive him.

Well noted. I'd like to add a thought that this subject is very much related to: That too often we believers think there is such a thing as a private sin. We say, "This is between me and God." But everything we do affects everything else. We are part of the body.