• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured God's purpose for sharing about the Rich Man?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Johnny4ChristJesus, Oct 23, 2018.

  1. Johnny4ChristJesus

    Johnny4ChristJesus Well-Known Member Supporter

    +815
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Why do you think God shared the story of the rich man and Lazarus?

    Luke 16:19-31 King James Version (KJV)
    19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

    20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

    21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

    22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

    23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

    25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

    26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

    27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

    28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

    29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

    30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

    31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Ship of Fools Supporter

    +8,382
    United States
    Lutheran
    Legal Union (Other)
    It's a parable and cautionary tale about greed.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  3. Shempster

    Shempster ImJustMe Supporter

    +766
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    It was another dig at the Pharisees. They had knowledge of the "way" and rather than sharing God's love with people, they used it for power and control, not only ignoring the weak and the poor, but adding greater suffering to their lives.
     
  4. LoreneDD

    LoreneDD Well-Known Member

    +487
    Canada
    Christian
    Private
    I see it as a parable that Jesus related to himself in many ways based on the answer that even if one was to be sent back from the dead they still would not believe. Actually not long after a certain Lazarus was called back from the dead and little did it make a difference. The dogs licking at the wounds are the least of the world that bandaged a few of the heart wounds for Him. His rest accomplished there are still those whose thirst should be after righteousness.
     
  5. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of His Creation! Supporter

    +3,741
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    So will also happen to all who ignore those in need who are right there in front of them.

    It's like Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25 - English Standard Version, verses 31-46.
     
  6. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,310
    Christian
    Single
    A man or woman might see a homelss person thin and in rags. A Chistian might buy a loaf of bread for the person, or give him $5.00. Another might call the police to report a suspiciuos person. Others might not want to do anything for the person. The same rich person who called the police or ignored the plight of the poor might be in trouble perishing and pray for help, but receives none.
     
  7. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +9,773
    Christian
    Married
    Something to note (in addition) is that this is one of the occasions that Jesus turned His audiences' expectation and understanding on its head.

    At that time (and so often today as well), people presumed that a man was well-off because he was faithful and righteous. People believed that health and prosperity were signs of faith and righteousness.

    People also believed that poverty and illness were signs of unrighteousness.

    So when Jesus described these two men and then stated that the impoverished man laid in the "bosom of Abraham" while the prosperous man was in a place of torment, that undoubtedly dropped jaws in Jesus' audience.

    It would leave his audience with the question: If the wealthy are not our examples of righteousness, who is? What should we really be doing?
     
  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +27,544
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Lazarus is only mentioned in 1 chapter of Luke and 2 chapters in John.

    Lazarus (YLT)
    "lazarus"
    occurs 15 times in 15 verses i

    I believe it is a Covenantle parable between the OC Law/Death/Moses and NC Faith of Abraham and Life of Jesus and of course the Resurrection of Lord and Savior.

    Why is the Rich-Man in Luke 16:24 calling out to Abraham?

    John 11:
    39 Jesus saith, 'Take ye away the stone;' the sister of him who hath died -- Martha -- saith to him, 'Sir, already he stinketh, for it is fourth day;'
    43 And these things saying, with a loud voice he cried out, 'Lazarus, come forth;'
    and he who died came forth, being bound feet and hands with grave-clothes, and his visage with a napkin was bound about; Jesus saith to them, 'Loose him, and suffer to go.'
    John 12:1
    Jesus, therefore, six days before the passover, came to Bethany,
    where was Lazarus, who had died, whom he raised out of the dead;


    You can find numerous commentaries about it doing a google search.

    Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

    The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell. Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading.
    In this article, we will go through the parable verse by verse to determine what the Messiah was truly teaching...................


    LUKE 16:
    30 "And he said, 'Nay! father Abraham;
    but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
    31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "
    Yeshua uses the last two verses of this parable as an amazing prophecy of his pending resurrection from the dead. The rich man says that although his brothers may not accept the scriptural evidence for the identity of the Messiah, they will accept the evidence of one who is raised from the dead.

    But Abraham answers and plainly tells him that anyone who rejects the Bible's teaching about the Messiah will also refuse to acknowledge the evidence of a miraculous resurrection.
    This last verse is a sad prophecy about the Jews who, despite God's resurrection of His son from the power of the grave, have failed to recognize Yeshua as the prophesied Messiah.

    Yeshua ends this parable abruptly, with no real resolution presented.


    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  9. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,310
    Christian
    Single
    Having wealth is not a sin. I remember some North Koreans needed food. They sold some of their mining equipment to the Chinese. They had food for awhile, but lost mine revenue. If they sold all their machinery, they might have food for a time, but their long term condition might have worsened. You do not see many fat North Koreans.

    In Jesus’ parable the rich man was like one eating gourmet foods in a restaurant and wearing thousand dollar suits (IMO). The poor man would have praised God with great joy if someone gave him a bowl of beans and rice. The rich man sinned in not being able to share.

    France passed a law requiring restaurants to give unused or blemished food to the poor instead of throw it in the dumpster. Would God like such a law?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  10. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +9,773
    Christian
    Married
    I didn't say having wealth was a sin.

    I said having wealth was not a sign of righteousness.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  11. Pneuma3

    Pneuma3 Well-Known Member

    +379
    Christian
    The parable is explained in Ro.11
     
  12. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

    +729
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Sometime we look at a poor handicapped person maybe even mentally handicapped and think, "why did God make them that way?"
    That person is there to provide you or someone else with the very best opportunity to experience Godly type Love. Not ceasing the opportunity hurts you big time and them while here on earth (what a waste of their time on earth for your sake).
     
  13. Willie T

    Willie T St. Petersburg Vineyard

    +1,434
    Christian
    Married
    I thought that in 10 answers, SOMEONE would get it right.

    This was just a parable to the Jewish people listening, that, now that Jesus had come, they could no longer depend upon their heritage of being born Jewish (the favored people) to give them eternal life.
     
  14. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

    +2,256
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    <J4CJ>do you think God shared the story of the rich man and Lazarus?
    Luke 16:19-31 King James Version (KJV)
    19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
    20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
    21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
    22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
    23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
    24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
    25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
    26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
    27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
    28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
    29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
    30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
    31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.<end>
    What was the rich man's sin? Was he sent to hell for being rich? vs. 21 above indicates that Lazarus didn't even get the crumbs from the rich man's table.
    Deuteronomy 15:7-8
    (7) If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother:
    (8) But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth.
    Is the tale of the rich man and Lazarus a parable or is it factual? Every early church father who referred to Lazarus and the rich man considered it to be factual not a parable.
    • Irenaeus [120-202 AD] Against Heresies Book II Chapter XXXIV.-Souls Can Be Recognised in the Separate State, and are Immortal Although They Once Had a Beginning. [was a student of Polycarp, who was a student of John.]
    1. The Lord has taught with very great fulness, that souls not only continue to exist, not by passing from body to body, but that they preserve the same form [in their separate state] as the body had to which they were adapted, and that they remember the deeds which they did in this state of existence, and from which they have now ceased,-in that narrative which is recorded respecting the rich man and that Lazarus who found repose in the bosom of Abraham. In this account He states that Dives [=Latin for rich] knew Lazarus after death, and Abraham in like manner, and that each one of these persons continued in his own proper position, and that [Dives] requested Lazarus to be sent to relieve him-[Lazarus], on whom he did not [formerly] bestow even the crumbs [which fell] from his table. [He tells us] also of the answer given by Abraham, who was acquainted not only with what respected himself, but Dives also, and who enjoined those who did not wish to come into that place of torment to believe Moses and the prophets, and to receive the preaching of Him who was to rise again from the dead. By these things, then, it is plainly declared that souls continue to exist that they do not pass from body to body, that they possess the form of a man, so that they may be recognised, and retain the memory of things in this world; moreover, that the gift of prophecy was possessed by Abraham, and that each class of souls] receives a habitation such as it has deserved, even before the judgment.
    Link: ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus | Christian Classics Ethereal Library
    • Clement of Alexandria [A.D. 153-193-217] The Instructor [Paedagogus] Book 1 Chaper 11
    On the Resurrection.“There was a certain man,” said the Lord, narrating, “very rich, who was clothed in purple and scarlet, enjoying himself splendidly every day.” This was the day. “And a certain poor man named Lazarus was laid at the rich man’s gate, full of sores, desiring to be filled with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table.” This is the grass. Well, the rich man was punished in Hades, being made partaker of the fire; while the other flourished again in the Father’s bosom.
    • Tertullian A Treatise On The Soul [A.D. 145-220.] Part First
    In hell the soul of a certain man is in torment, punished in flames, suffering excruciating thirst, and imploring from the finger of a happier soul, for his tongue, the solace of a drop of water. Do you suppose that this end of the blessed poor man and the miserable rich man is only imaginary? Then why the name of Lazarus in this narrative, if the circumstance is not in (the category of) a real occurrence? But even if it is to be regarded as imaginary, it will still be a testimony to truth and reality. For unless the soul possessed corporeality, the image of a soul could not possibly contain a finger of a bodily substance; nor would the Scripture feign a statement about the limbs of a body, if these had no existence.
    • The Epistles Of Cyprian (A.D. 200-258) Epistle 54 To Cornelius, Concerning Fortunatus And Felicissimus, Or Against The Heretics
    A good man out of the good treasure bringeth forth good things; and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.” Whence also that rich sinner who implores help from Lazarus, then laid in Abraham’s bosom, and established in a place of comfort, while he, writhing in torments, is consumed by the heats of burning flame, suffers most punishment of all parts of his body in his mouth and his tongue, because doubtless in his mouth and his tongue he had most sinned.
    • Methodius Fragments On The History Of Jonah (A.D. 260-312)
    But souls, being rational bodies, are arranged by the Maker and Father of all things into members which are visible to reason, having received this impression. Whence, also, in Hades, as in the case of Lazarus and the rich man, they are spoken of as having a tongue, and a finger, and the other members; not as though they had with them another invisible body, but that the souls themselves, naturally, when entirely stripped of their covering, are such according to their essence.

     
  15. LoreneDD

    LoreneDD Well-Known Member

    +487
    Canada
    Christian
    Private
    Better to teach them how to fish than to give them a fish to eat.
     
  16. LoreneDD

    LoreneDD Well-Known Member

    +487
    Canada
    Christian
    Private
    I don't know how they could decide it's factual when Jesus gave it as a parable. :| Indifference seems to be the sin alluded to.
     
  17. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

    +590
    Christian
    Single
    I think that is also for good lesson for us. Especially that, there are people who would not receive the message anyway. It is not really about who or how it is said, but about, does one want to receive the truth, or not.
     
  18. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +9,773
    Christian
    Married
    It doesn't actually say all that.
     
  19. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,310
    Christian
    Single
    You are right. There was reference to a rich man dressed in purple and fine linen. Purple was a very expensive dye used in the clothes of royalty. Fine linen is expensive. Sack cloth is cheap. The rich man dined lavishly, sumptuously, in glorius splendor every day; depending on what translation you use - Luke 16:19.

    I guessed at a modern comparison. How much money does one need before he/she can be charitable? I may need to improve in this respect.
     
  20. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +9,773
    Christian
    Married
    Jesus didn't describe the rich man doing anything unrighteous according to the Law.

    But He did indicate the rich man receiving the consequences of unrighteousness.
     
Loading...