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Gods Order in the body of Christ

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by LoveofTruth, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    GOD'S ORDER IN THE BODY OF CHRIST

    God’s order
    in the body of Christ is His spiritual working in every part as he leads and empowers believers in all things. Though hidden from the eyes of natural men, it is there nevertheless. This order begins in the spirit and the patient waiting on God as He leads into all gifts, ministry, fruits of the Spirit and sets the order. No person can know this order unless they are in Christ, and walk in the spirit. But sadly, many christians today are drawn away from God’s order and rule in their hearts into a religious form of man’s order and exalted leaders.

    Man’s order does not begin in the spirit, it begins in man’s natural mind and human wisdom, and is regulated by programs and traditions of men in the rudiments of the world that can make the word of God of no effect.

    Jesus said, “I will build my church” and he is fully able to do this by his power and might, which he has been doing all along. But If you ask many believers today, “how is a church built?” They would say something like, “well, first you save up money for years with a gathering, or one that meets in a school or community center and then you buy a piece of land or go into debt, hire a construction crew and you pay them to build the church building. Then you put some pews in it, build an altar and pulpit, have a Pastor over all and make a name for it, put a sign up on the lawn, register with the government and there you go, the church is ready.

    Then the whole assembly comes in and sit in rows facing the back of each others heads as they look forward to the exalted man on the podium, or “altar”, who gives a message to the church every week.

    But this is not how Jesus Christ builds his church, nor has he ever built His church this way. Christ builds his church from the inside out and this work starts from within all believers. The “church” is the body of Christ (Eph.1:22, 23) and a living organism. It is a spiritual house made up of living stones (1 Peter 2:5), which is built up in the revelation of Jesus Christ. This is the starting point of Jesus building. It is not a man made religious building or a corporation with bosses and employees. Jesus Christ is the head of the church, which is his body, he is not the head of institutions and man made forms.

    The Lord Builds the House

    In God’s order, all believers must “...grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.“ (Ephesians 4:15,16). This edifying (or building up) of one another in love is how Christ builds His Church from the inside out.

    In God’s order He arranges all things after His mighty working in the saints (Heb. 13:20, 21) as believers labourer together with him (1 Cor. 3:9). This order begins in the peace of God and by His rule (or governing) in the spirit (Col.3:15,16) as we wait on the Lord for ministry in the body one to another (Rom. 12:3-8). Only then can we grow up into him (Eph. 4:15).

    Despite the multitudes of believers who gather in these religious forms, with their various spiritual moments, the evangelistic aspects and some other good ministration seen in many of them, there is a great problem in the churches today and it must be addressed. It is still true today that, “Except the Lord build the house they labour in vain that build it” (Psalm 127:1).

    Many christians who gather today may seem to be rich and increased with goods and think they have need of nothing, but many are unaware that they are “wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind and naked” (Rev. 3:17). Jesus said these serious words to the Church of Laodicea, but he also said, “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come into him, and will sup with him and he with me” (Rev. 3:20). Jesus wants to dwell in the hearts of all those who will open to him and to “sup” with them, and to participate with them in the assembly as they gather. Without this participation of the Lord among the church they are in danger. Jesus said to the Laodicean church, “I will spue thee out of my mouth.” (Rev. 3:16). Similarly, all should consider this question, “is Jesus Christ standing outside knocking or is he in the midst being able to effectually work in believers as they assemble?”

    For Christians to be able to function fully as the body of Christ, they need to withdraw from man’s order (2 Thess. 3:6, Rom. 16:17, Eph. 5:11) and walk in God’s order, even though this will be very hard for some.

    The commands of the Lord in this order were spoken of by Paul to the Corinthians when he said “...when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying...Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted... If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Cor. 14:26, 29-31, 37 emphasis mine).

    Peter also spoke of this order and said, “As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.” (1 Peter 4:10,11). If anyone neglects or hinders the ministration of the gifts from God to one another they will not be good stewards of the grace of God and they quench the spirit.

    This one aspect alone is so different than most assemblies today, where all the body is stifled and silenced by the one man pastor ministry and the commands of men, with their programed order, where all are bound up and unable to freely edify one another. Instead they are drawn to the exalted man who does most of the ministry. This is wrong and needs to change.

    Scripture speaks of a plurality of “elders in every church” (Acts 14:23). Never do we read of one man in the New Testament called “The Pastor” over all doing most of the ministry and getting a regular salary.

    Furthermore, we read of the church gathering in homes and having a meal together as they wait on the Lord and ministered to one another, in prayer and fellowship. The institutional church structures today with their programs and clergy, have hindered many of these functions in the church.

    In fact, when examining man’s order as opposed to God’s order we see that almost everything that is done today, from walking into a large building with a denominational name, called a “church”, and everything that is on man’s programed order, from the Pastor’s role over all that often quenches the spirit in others, to their “services” that do not allow the body to minister freely, with the pastors sermon, the pulpit, worship leaders, women leaders, false authority, collections, constitutional laws of man, ushers, theater type environment, salaried ministers, tithing, tax exemption rules, altars, rituals, exalted priest, the silent body ministry, show time religion, no consensus decisions and many more, are all based on the traditions of men and not after Christ.

    A Wise Master Builder

    God’s order was revealed to apostolic workers and also handed down to believers in scripture. Paul said that God made him a wise master builder (1 Cor. 3:10), to lay the foundation and to show God’s order for the churches. We see men like Timothy and Titus bringing others to remembrance of Paul’s ways in Christ (1 Cor. 4:17) and the order he handed down was for every church everywhere (1 Cor. 4:17, 1 Cor 14:33).

    God’s Order in Scripture

    “For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:” (Titus 1:5).

    Here we see that Paul had a definite “order” for them to be in. The order Paul speaks of here was given by the command and leading of the Spirit and it was not by man’s order and wisdom, with programs and philosophies based upon traditions of men.

    Paul often warned christians against following man’s traditions and order and to beware of anything that was not after Christ (Col. 2:8).

    In writing to the Colossians Paul also said, “For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.” (Col. 2:5).

    This “order” among the Colossian believers was a spiritual order and Paul was able to behold it in the spirit. This is God’s order, not man’s order and to walk in this order a person must be in faith and the leading of the Spirit. No man can make this happen in their lives or in the assembly, although many try to.

    Paul wrote of how believers “ought” to behave in the church and said, “But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” (1 Timothy 3:15).

    All believers should keep this order, “Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.” (2 Thess. 2:15).

    Paul taught the same things “everywhere” and in “every church”. (1 Cor. 4:17). So are any churches today exempt? Why would any christian want to do anything different? “The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD...” (Psalm 37:23) This has always been God’s way.

    True spiritual authority flows from Christ to the body as we all live and speak the word of God. Authroity is not a static position (Matt. 20:25-27), but only as we abide in Christ and are directed by Him (John 15:5)

    (This is from a tract I wrote below)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
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  2. Thedictator

    Thedictator Retired Coach, Now Missionary to the World

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    Well this is your opinion and not God's revelation, most of the things you mentioned that you said were unscriptural are perfectly scriptural. You have taken some of the passages out of context.
     
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    So what Scriptures do you think describes the popular church of today?
    I do not see a Pastor stealing the show every week in fellowship mentioned in Scripture. I also see nothing about how we are commanded to have a big building and turn it into a religious business operation. Where in Scripture do we gather in fellowship to worship God with believers and unbelievers? It makes no sense. Fellowship was always believers alone. When the body of Christ wanted to evangelize they would go out door to door or preach openly in the public. They would not invite unbelievers to worship God in a building by putting on a show. Men of God preached the gospel directly to people without baiting and switching them with a big church sign that there was food in the church or great music, or an interesting play, etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Just the other day, I seen a sign on a church building say something like,

    "You will love this church,
    For nobody perfect is allowed here."​

    This is truly sad. Did not Jesus tell us to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect? What about Jesus? Is not Jesus perfect? Does not Jesus live in the hearts of His people?
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Good to see back at CF, "Love of Truth."
    May God bless you this fine day.
     
  6. Thedictator

    Thedictator Retired Coach, Now Missionary to the World

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    First I do think that the Preacher should not be a Pastor unless he meet the Qualifications to be one ( 1 Timothy 3:1-7 ) and a church should not have only one Pastor or a head Pastor. Another word for Pastor is Elder or Elders. In most cases the Preacher should not be one of the Pastors for conflict of interest reasons, and to be held accountable by the Elders or Pastors who are held responsible by God for true doctrine being taught. There are a lot of Churches who do operate in this biblical manner.

    The Church at that time also met in the Temple ( This was a very large building) ( Acts 3:1, Acts 2:46 )

    As for the Preacher stealing the show, this is more like someone with a sour grapes attitude. Than a biblical point.
     
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    First, we are God's Temple.

    We find that the Spirit of the Lord no longer dwells in temples made by the hands of man (see Acts of the Apostles 7:48, Acts of the Apostles 17:24), and that we (Christians) are the temples of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19). We see that the Spirit of God Dwells in us (Romans 8:11). The Bible further states that we are God’s building and also that Christ is the foundation of that building. (See 1 Corinthians 3:9-11).

    Second, did the early church meet in a temple building?

    Yes they did and the larger size of the temple could accommodate multiple house churches meeting together to hear the original Apostles speak (more publicly) in a building that alreadyexisted. Multiple churches were able to make use of a Jewish facility that was apparently available to them without any charge or cost. However, as we saw from the list of Scriptures earlier in this article, individual churches were identified and associated with houses of specific people, not with the temple.

    Some argue that since temples are not freely available today that we need to build Christian versions of them. This is not true. Time and again, the pattern that we see in the Bible is home assembly. Never once do we see any meetings conducted in specially built church buildings. So the lack of “temples” today is not a license to build them.

    We should also keep in mind that the Apostles were special messengers who God was writing the New Testament through and who lived in a different time in history. The Bible is now complete and there are no such “capital A” Apostles today. The Apostles were also Jewish men who had access to the existing temple building.

    Also, the church was brand new and was being formed at a rapid pace and so they conducted daily meetings in both the temples and homes. Not that daily home meetings wouldn't be a good idea today, but daily meetings generally do not presently occur except maybe in some 3rd world countries and possibly some home assemblies. Nevertheless, we must ask: do even today’s modern Evangelical churches meet daily in their popular special church buildings that they commonly build? Almost never.
    These buildings typically remain vacant most of the week.

    The following are where the temple building and houses are mentioned together:

    And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart… Acts 2:46

    Further trying to justify their desire for a building, some may claim that this verse proves that church meetings were conducted in the temples and only eating, communion or the breaking bread in general was done house to house. This is not true as the following verse shows:

    And daily in the temple, and in every house, they [the Apostles] ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. Acts 5:42

    Obviously there was much more going on in these houses than just eating.

    Also, did the early church build theses temples or were they the result of the Old Covenant ways? They were the result of the Old Covenant and not the New Covenant. It was merely convenient for their needs at the time. But nowhere did even this temple meeting resemble the churches of today.

    Conclusion:

    Regardless of all the empty rhetoric and constant urgent appeals for money that we endlessly hear “ad nauseam ad infinitum” from ambitious churchmen everywhere, church buildings are simply not necessary. In fact, they are actually huge unbiblical distractions and major time wasting and money wasting endeavors that open up a Pandora’s box of other problems.

    Source:
    Truth Guard - Articles - Why Meeting in Homes is Biblical
    (Note: I am agreement with what I posted in their author's website article, but I am not in agreement with everything else they teach; Especially their view on Soteriology).
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  8. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    not my opinion, I gave many scriptures. As usual I would hope you can show me exactly where I was not scriptural or in the general context of God's order.

    You must know that when we say a person is not correct in anything they say we ca not just say , you are incorrect. We should show them EXACTLY where we think they are incorrect.
     
  9. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    In scripture we never read of one man over all the church called the "pastor" getting a regular salary and doing most of the speaking and exalted over all as a good thing.

    We read of apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers *(Eph. 4:11) and not just a one man ministry of the pastor.

    No man can simply buy his way into a bible school take a pastoral course do a test and then he is a pastor gift. This is not how such a gift is given. God gives such a gift not men or by man. Paul said in Galatians 1 that he was an apostle, not of man or by man, but God gave him this gift and made him this.

    But today anyone can buy their way into ministry by taking a course and then unbiblically getting a title such as "Master of Divinity". Jesus said call no man "Master", for one is your master even Christ.

    Also as far as preachers go, usually the "preachers" were the ones who preached the gospel to the lost, not preaching to the saved generally. These were the apostles and evangelist, though other ministries could preach also. Paul sad he did not want to preach Christ were he was already named. So there goes the preacher on Sunday idea to the saved.

    No it is not. An d elder is a mature believer or older in the faith. A Pastor is one of the five fold GIFTS to the body. It is not a title so much as a function and gift. We also read in 1 Peter 5, that Peter was also an elder and an apostle. There goes the pastor if the elder only idea.

    No, the Jewish believers who were still struggling with the law and the time of reformation from the old to the new, continued in the Temple for a time and continued to do sacrifices and all the law (Acts 21) . But there was no temple in Rome or Corinth etc. They also met in houses right from the start having favour with al the people. Not just because of persecution.

    They also met in Solomons porch not directly in the inner temple where the sacrifices and other aspects were taking place.
     
  10. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    You might be interested in another new post I made here

    The Pastor King (New)
     
  11. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    They should have plurality of elders as they grow and have them come forth from God's leading and as they are known among the body in their labour and ministration. But these elders may be in various gifts in the body, apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers. Not just pastors.

    This is the error today the one man pastor ministry has dominated the body and quenches the spirit in the rest of the body from edifying one another, in many cases.

    there is an interesting verse in Corinthians that says,

    1 Corinthians 12:28
    "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."

    I don't see pastors there for some reason.
     
  12. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    But this "order" is all through the bible in different degrees and revelations

    Colossians 2:5
    For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ." Here Paul was able to behold their order in the spirit. Showing that this is a deeply spiritual order that manifest in our gatherings and lives. This is because it is God that worth in us to make us perfect unto EVERY GOOD work, working in us that which is well pleasing in His sight through Jesus Christ (Hebrews 13:20,21). This is God ordering or arranging things for our good.

    Psalm 37:23
    "The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way."

    Psalm 119:133
    "Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me."

    1 Chronicles 15:13
    "For because ye did it not at the first, the Lord our God made a breach upon us, for that we sought him not after the due order."

    1 Corinthians 11:34
    "And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

    1 Corinthians 14:40
    "Let all things be done decently and in order." ( this is God's order, for what man can make a person prophesy as they wait on the Lord. None can but the Lord who orders our steps.

    1 Corinthians 16:1
    "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye." ( Paul did not just do his own will but was led by the Spirit of God in this order

    Titus 1:5
    "For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:"

    Just some of the verses. Connected to these are a few more verses here

    2 Thessalonians 2:15
    "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

    1 Corinthians 11:2
    2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you."

    1 Corinthians 14:37
    "37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." Commands are Gods order for the gatherings,"an authoritative prescription, or injunction" in Greek. Whatever Paul wrote for the churches were the commandments of the Lord unless he specifically said they weren't, which he only did a few times.

    1 Thessalonians 4:11
    And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;"

    2 Thessalonians 3:10
    "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat."
     
  13. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    It's interesting today that when a believer goes to a thing called a "bible school" or "seminary", they can take a pastoral studies course and get a degree and then they are a so called "pastor" . But this is not how God gives gifts. Paul was made an apostle, not of men or by men, but By God's gift to him and God made him an able minister of the spirit.

    Its interesting that in bible schools you don't see courses for "prophet" studies to be a "prophet", or "apostle" studies, to be an apostle", or to get a degree to be an "evangelist". in most cases . But truly no man can buy his way into a gift or study his way into a gift. God gives severally as He wills.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  14. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    The point of some of these discussions is that all believers should consider seriously what is said and come out from among any gathering that quenches the spirit has s form of godliness without the power, that exalts one man over all, that fights agsinst body ministry when gathered and in essence has Christ outside knocking wanting to come in among them and to sup with them or to participate with them.

    But sadly many many will simply read truth and do absolutely nothing to change anything.

    They will instead try to justify their religious system and stand boldly against any who would show them God’s commands for a different order . They would cry out that any who would suggest such things as I do here is not under the (false) authority of their pastor and somehow (even though they don’t know how ) they must be wrong . They often will judge by outward appearance. They look at the size of their large Babel building unbiblically called “churches” and then they look a 30 believers meeting in a home and judge by outward appearance as if the small group is somehow not really the church and they must be some fringe group or rebellious people against the so called “authority” of their man made religious groups. But this is a wrong way to look at things and scripture has much to say about this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  15. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    But it's there in Ephesians 4:11
     
  16. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Quoting Scripture is good, (except when it is taken out of context).
    But quoting the KJV, insisting that it is the only REAL Bible and that all other versions are corrupt, isn't. Like I said in another thread, you have no Scripture for that claim, yet you still make it.

    Are you saying that if 100 or so believers meet in a designated building, sit in chairs, or pews, and have one person leading worship from the front, they are going against God's order and will?
    Shame that God doesn't think that. You might long to get back to NT times, but what we have today isn't wrong and the Lord can certainly bless, speak through, comfort, challenge, and yes, send his Spirit to fill and empower, Christians who meet in this way.

    As for having "an exalted man on the podium", not only are you judging someone by assuming that they think of themselves as exalted, you are also being scathing about someone whom God has called and gifted.
    Yes, you might want everyone to return to NT times, meet in each others houses and have the same kind of leadership as they did then; that doesn't mean you can insult anyone who thinks, or practices, differently.
     
  17. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    Yes I know I was pointing out the order that did not have a pastor as the man over a gathering
     
  18. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    14 And unto the angel ofthe church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness,the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I knowthy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou artlukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; andknowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable,and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee tobuy of me gold tried in thefire, that thou mayest berich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed,and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear;and anoint thine eyes witheyesalve, that thou mayestsee. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: ifany man hear my voice,and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.21 To him that overcomethwill I grant to sit with me inmy throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath anear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.”

    And

    26 How is it then, brethren?when ye come together,every one of you hath apsalm, hath a doctrine, hatha tongue, hath a revelation,hath an interpretation. Letall things be done untoedifying. 27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, orat the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there beno interpreter, let him keepsilence in the church; andlet him speak to himself,and to God. 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the otherjudge. 30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitters by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one,that all may learn, and allmay be comforted. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches ofthe saints. 34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learnany thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it isa shame for women to speak in the church.36 What? came the word of God out from you? or cameit unto you only?

    37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual,let him acknowledge that the things that I write untoyou are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. ”
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  19. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    I suggest you’re read my original post a few times .

    And yes, many true believers are quenched in such meetings and bound up under the false control and false authority of man made religious forms. God commands that all believers be free to allow Him to give them gifts and revelation and to minister freely as God works in them

    “As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that Godin all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever.Amen. “(1 Peter 4:10,11 KJV)

    And 1 Cor. 13:26-37, Ephesians 4:11-17, Colossians 3:15,16,1 Thess 5:12, 1 Cor. 12, Romans 12:1-8, etc

    Yes it is, and you just saying that and appealing to the modern forms of man’s religion doesn’t make what you say right. Many scriptures show God’s Order to those who have eyes and ears to see and hear.

    Again you need to answer my clear post at the beginning and all the scriptural commands that are for believers.

    Also we must not judge by outward appearance

    And I already addressed how even in some of these meetings believers have some good things. But,.. read my post again.

    false again. First I am not personally attacking anyone. I am showing the scriptural order as given for all the churches of the saints.
    Also, even if they were the most humble men, when they are put in that wrong exalted place and elevated on a platform or altar and they alone are considered in preeminence over others they become like Lord’s and masters which Jesus rebuked and Paul and Peter and John.

    Also I can show from many of the so called “constitutions” or by laws that they have that they say in them that “The Pastor” alone has freedom of the pulpit and us in control of all the activities of the assembly and he alone is mentioned under the “ministry” section. These things are WRONG. This proves that such assemblies fight against the freedom of the body of Christ and God’s order and instead bind up men under the commandments of men. Such things should be sharply rebuked and warned against.

    “I wrote unto the church:but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth usnot. 10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth,prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive thebrethren, and forbiddeth them that would, andcasteth them out of the church. 11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil,...”

    2 Corinthians 11 - 18. Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. 19. For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20. For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.”

    Paul also dealt with this issue.

    And we read

    Mark 10 - 42. But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. 43. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: 44. And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  20. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Ok.

    But when the crowds went to listen to Jesus, how many people were "at the front" teaching?
    When Paul was teaching in the Synagogues - and in an upper room, before Eutychus fell out of the window; how many men was that? In fact, how many people led services in the synagogues anyway?
    When Jesus was presiding at the Last Supper, when they sang at least one hymn; how many men were doing the teaching then?

    It may not have been common in the NT, or spelt out that this happened; doesn't mean that it didn't.
     
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