God's many plans for the Gay community???????

[TG123]

As a Christian, I'd say God's plans for the gay community is the same as His plans for the straight community.

God doesn't deal with "gay people", or "straight people", or "black people", or "white people", or "strong people", or "weak people", or "quiet people", or "loud people", or "shy people". God deals with people. Period. The Gospel I'd preach to a straight Christian man is the same Gospel I'd preach to a gay Buddhist woman. The Gospel is the Gospel. God's love is universally spread out toward all. The God who loves you is the God who loves me, and He's the God who loves everyone. Christ didn't die for smart people, or dumb people, or gay people, or straight people, or tall people, or short people. Christ died for all people. For people. Period. As such His Gospel is for everyone, believing and unbelieving, gay and straight, rich and poor, tall and short.

-CryptoLutheran

Amen. He died for us all. We all have the oppurtunity to turn to Him from our sins.

 

[football5680]

There is a difference between love your neighbor and have sex with your neighbor. God was clear and nothing has changed. If they do not repent and stop their sinful ways then they will go where god has told them they will go. Hell isn't a punishment, it is a choice. If you choose to disobey god and commit sins he has forbidden without the slightest effort to cease then you have shown god you do not want to be with him in heaven. The gift of heaven is being in the presence of our creator, the punishment of hell is the separation from god.

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"


I don't think god would change his stance that drastically on this sin. He isn't going to go from kill them to gladly accept them.

 

[awitch]

Hell isn't a punishment, it is a choice. If you choose to disobey god and commit sins he has forbidden without the slightest effort to cease then you have shown god you do not want to be with him in heaven.

Remind me again how people can choose to disobey something they don't believe exists in the first place? Or do I have ask why you hate they flying purple unicorn from Uranus?

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

I don't think god would change his stance that drastically on this sin. He isn't going to go from kill them to gladly accept them.

Well isn't that interesting. In the Mein Kampf thread, a Christian compared the Koran to Mein Kampf by cherry picking a bunch of disturbing passages. I cited Leviticus 20:13 to show the Bible contained them, too.

In #130, Bluhdofthelamb protested saying: "This is not a fair comparison. OT Law, is literally a different religion from Christianity"

Then Jane said in #134: "Yet Christians seem only too happy to cite the OT whenever it suits their agenda. (For example WRT homosexuality, as Paul's famous epistle only references male prostitution.)"

How about that?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Remind me again how people can choose to disobey something they don't believe exists in the first place? Or do I have ask why you hate they flying purple unicorn from Uranus?

Well isn't that interesting. In the Mein Kampf thread, a Christian compared the Koran to Mein Kampf by cherry picking a bunch of disturbing passages. I cited Leviticus 20:13 to show the Bible contained them, too.

In #130, Bluhdofthelamb protested saying: "This is not a fair comparison. OT Law, is literally a different religion from Christianity"

Then Jane said in #134: "Yet Christians seem only too happy to cite the OT whenever it suits their agenda. (For example WRT homosexuality, as Paul's famous epistle only references male prostitution.)"

How about that?

Better stop while you are ahead before they get to Exodus 22:18.

 

[football5680]

Remind me again how people can choose to disobey something they don't believe exists in the first place? Or do I have ask why you hate they flying purple unicorn from Uranus?

Well isn't that interesting. In the Mein Kampf thread, a Christian compared the Koran to Mein Kampf by cherry picking a bunch of disturbing passages. I cited Leviticus 20:13 to show the Bible contained them, too.

In #130, Bluhdofthelamb protested saying: "This is not a fair comparison. OT Law, is literally a different religion from Christianity"

Then Jane said in #134: "Yet Christians seem only too happy to cite the OT whenever it suits their agenda. (For example WRT homosexuality, as Paul's famous epistle only references male prostitution.)"

How about that?

If you don't believe in it then you don't want to go to heaven regardless. When you are sent to hell you won't have an excuse.

Paul said it was forbidden also and he didn't just say Male prostitutes.

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

 

[Zoness]

If you don't believe in it then you don't want to go to heaven regardless. When you are sent to hell you won't have an excuse

That's pretty poor reasoning since most people don't read the Bible, find it true and then say "Gee, I'd rather just go to hell". Chances are most people don't accept it as true for various reasons including spiritual abuse, doubt, supposed contradictions with scientific findings and the general aggressiveness of the Christian community.

Maybe they just don't find it rational, not everyone is wired for a religious belief system. Chances are they aren't making an arbitrary choice to go to some other religion's place of eternal torment.

 

[football5680]

That's pretty poor reasoning since most people don't read the Bible, find it true and then say "Gee, I'd rather just go to hell". Chances are most people don't accept it as true for various reasons including spiritual abuse, doubt, supposed contradictions with scientific findings and the general aggressiveness of the Christian community.

Maybe they just don't find it rational, not everyone is wired for a religious belief system. Chances are they aren't making an arbitrary choice to go to some other religion's place of eternal torment.

That's fine. If they are that certain that god does not exist then they have nothing to worry about. It takes far greater faith to be an atheist.

You reasoning is also poor. Just because somebody reads the bible and accepts it as the truth doesn't automatically give them entrance into heaven. If they read the bible, accept that it is true and then disregard God's commandments then they are no better than somebody who just rejects the bible. If you accept that something is the truth then you would live by it.

 

[elephunky]

*le sigh*

I usually get heavy involved in these types of discussions trying to educate people, but I don't see the point anymore. If people want to be anti homo they will find a reason to be.

What I don't understand is their obsessive need to talk about us homos and their outrageously incorrect understands all over forums (not just this one) repeatedly.

Why don't they talk about murder or one of the often broken ten commandments or something. Seriously.

Ok rant over lol

 

[awitch]

If you don't believe in it then you don't want to go to heaven regardless. When you are sent to hell you won't have an excuse.

"They say I don't belong
I must stay below, alone
Because of my beliefs I've supposed to stay where evil is sewn
But what is evil anyway?
Is there reason to the rhyme.
Without evil there can be no good so it must be good to be evil sometimes"
-Satan (South Park)

It's important for it to be a choice to absolve god, isn't it? To eternally punish someone otherwise would make god nothing less than malevolent. I suppose it also gives you an excuse not to feel bad for the billions of people who don't make it to heaven; men, women, children...

I promise not to complain if you point and laugh at me from heaven.

 

[abysmul]

*le sigh*

I usually get heavy involved in these types of discussions trying to educate people, but I don't see the point anymore. If people want to be anti homo they will find a reason to be.

What I don't understand is their obsessive need to talk about us homos and their outrageously incorrect understands all over forums (not just this one) repeatedly.

Why don't they talk about murder or one of the often broken ten commandments or something. Seriously.

Ok rant over lol

Do a survey/study yourself, pick a forum (like this set we are both posting on), comb through the threads and see how many threads are started about homosexuals, and see what % is started by "anti homo" people (as you call them). You might be surprised at how many are NOT started by "anti homo" people.

In our current culture and society, homosexuality tends to be the front-runner of flag waving sins. For Bible believing Christians, it is indeed a sin, yet in our current culture it is a sin that is being literally paraded and preached even in our children's schools as something good, something to be accepted, and even at times wholesome. That is contrary to Bible teachings.

There are no flag waving pro murder marches going on that I know of, and I also know of no campaign being organized to tell grade school children that it's "OK to murder" and to not be ashamed if the kids or someone in their family is a murderer. (Now, abortion could be an exception to that rule, but there is a CLEAR anti abortion movement in our society.)

Most Christians I now love our gay friends and family, but we don't love their sin, nor the sins that any of us practice. We do worry even more when any of our loved ones embrace any sin and practice it unashamedly.

 

[awitch]

In our current culture and society, homosexuality tends to be the front-runner of flag waving sins. For Bible believing Christians, it is indeed a sin, yet in our current culture it is a sin that is being literally paraded and preached even in our children's schools as something good, something to be accepted, and even at times wholesome. That is contrary to Bible teachings.

Because it is natural and it is beneficial for same sex couples to be married, especially if they have children, and it doesn't inherently harm anyone. All the research backs up this position. If your personally chosen faith dictates you must reject that research, so be it, but you should not expect people to adhere to those beliefs just because it's contrary to your Bible.

There are no flag waving pro murder marches going on that I know of, and I also know of no campaign being organized to tell grade school children that it's "OK to murder" and to not be ashamed if the kids or someone in their family is a murderer. (Now, abortion could be an exception to that rule, but there is a CLEAR anti abortion movement in our society.)

What two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes is nothing like murder. I wish I could say I was surprised that you would try to equate the two, but it's a common tactic used by the religious.

 

[DennisTate]

Amen. He died for us all. We all have the oppurtunity to turn to Him from our sins.

But isn't it amazing how different the calling can be on several people all of whom have high callings in life. Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah were Jews called to be prophets as well as government officials. King Cyrus was pagan king and yet God inspired Isaiah to write that God would so guide Cyrus that it was as if he was being held by his right hand???????!!!!!


Isaiah 45 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)
Isaiah 45:1 ¶ "Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;....Isa 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:"

Judaism was the church of that time period....but God chose to guide pagan King Cyrus without calling him into the church at that time????!!!!

My point is that God may have astonishing high and lofty plans for the life of a person that we in the church cannot recognize as being "called" because they do not meet our expectations???????!!!!

 

[abysmul]

What two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes is nothing like murder. I wish I could say I was surprised that you would try to equate the two, but it's a common tactic used by the religious.

Easy now, re read my post, it is a reply to dGirl1986 she brought that up.

Oh, and to a Bible believing Christian they are both sin.

 

[DennisTate]

If you don't believe in it then you don't want to go to heaven regardless. When you are sent to hell you won't have an excuse.

Paul said it was forbidden also and he didn't just say Male prostitutes.

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

OK, but what about people who ignore what Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua stated about calling people worthless or a fool or something along that line?????!!!

Christian Andreason:
"If this world was to ever find out just a small amount of what sexually diverse (gay) people are here to do on this planet, there would never be one single wisecrack or hurtful remark made ever again. Instead there would be great respect! People who speak disrespectful things about people of this orientation ... enact judgment, and do so from a place of unenlightenment, insecurity, ego and socially induced prejudice. Some may use mistranslated scriptures taught to them, not by the Holy Spirit ... but by fear-filled human beings."

Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua:

"You have heard that *the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be *liable to the court.'
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be *guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, '*You good-for-nothing,' shall be *guilty before *the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be *guilty enough to go into the *fiery hell."(Matthew 5:21,22, NASB)

What about insulting people Football5680.....is insulting people and calling them worthless the type of sin that can also put one into a hellish state of mind??????!!!!

.near-death.com/ritchie.html
Dr. George Ritchie:

Suddenly, Jesus appears emitting a tremendous light and love. George's entire life appears before him. Jesus asks, "What have you done with your life?" He realizes Jesus is not judging him, but he is judging himself.

Jesus gives him a tour of four different dimensions in the afterlife.

.......

Jesus shows him a dimension where angry spirits are locked in hand-to-hand combat, trying in vain to hurt each other. He hears verbal abuse going on. He observes some trying in vain to get sexual gratification from each other. He also sees spirits arguing over some religious or political point and trying to kill the ones who did not agree with them. Here, he realizes he is seeing hell. These are spirits who are locked into some earthly desire that went beyond the physical and which cannot be satisfied in the spirit.

.....

Jesus takes him into outer space toward a distant city made of brilliant light of a similar description to the city in the Book of Revelation. He speculates this is the place where people go who have become Christ-like while on Earth. Here, love was the dominant focus of life. He realizes he is seeing heaven, but he is not allowed to go in. Jesus then shows him the future of the Earth. He then returns to his physical body.

 

[DennisTate]

As a Christian, I'd say God's plans for the gay community is the same as His plans for the straight community.

God doesn't deal with "gay people", or "straight people", or "black people", or "white people", or "strong people", or "weak people", or "quiet people", or "loud people", or "shy people". God deals with people. Period. The Gospel I'd preach to a straight Christian man is the same Gospel I'd preach to a gay Buddhist woman. The Gospel is the Gospel. God's love is universally spread out toward all. The God who loves you is the God who loves me, and He's the God who loves everyone. Christ didn't die for smart people, or dumb people, or gay people, or straight people, or tall people, or short people. Christ died for all people. For people. Period. As such His Gospel is for everyone, believing and unbelieving, gay and straight, rich and poor, tall and short.

-CryptoLutheran

True....but it is amazing how differently the guidance of God will be on two different people who have vastly different backgrounds in life!!!!

God wants to shown Himself strong on behalf of everybody....but our background is taken into consideration and the type of ministry that somebody has can be radically different because of what they have been shown and experienced and seen in life that the rest of us cannot really relate to??!!


2Chronicles 16:8 "Were not the Ethiopians and the Lubims a huge host, with very many chariots and horsemen? yet, because thou didst rely on the LORD, he delivered them into thine hand.
For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of [them] whose heart [is] perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars.
Then Asa was wroth with the seer, and put him in a prison house; for [he was] in a rage with him because of this [thing]. And Asa oppressed [some] of the people the same time."

I have heard a theory on the background to this situation that would cause this centurion to feel that he was not worthy to have Jesus under his roof. It may relate to this issue but.....this man had a gift of astonishing faith no matter what he had been through as a Roman centurion?????!!!!


Luke 7:6 "Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof:Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed.For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth [it].
When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel."

As you can guess many of the customs in the Roman legions of that time were not exactly kosher by Jewish and Christian standards.....yet in spite of his own guilt over his own sins.....the centurion had a phenomenal depth of faith and concern for his servant who was sick!!!!!

 

[Zoness]

That's fine. If they are that certain that god does not exist then they have nothing to worry about. It takes far greater faith to be an atheist.

Maybe, but most people are simply "non-religious" and don't give it much thought either way. That doesn't take a whole lot of effort.

You reasoning is also poor. Just because somebody reads the bible and accepts it as the truth doesn't automatically give them entrance into heaven. If they read the bible, accept that it is true and then disregard God's commandments then they are no better than somebody who just rejects the bible. If you accept that something is the truth then you would live by it.

It generally follows that those who accept the Bible as true wish to follow its commandments, even if they still do so poorly when they become "Christian"; they accept the burden of identification of deeds and words, for better or worse.

You made an argument that awitch wouldn't have an "excuse", chances are an omnipotent God wouldn't care what you have to say positive or negative in this life and in your judgement so I didn't find that to be concrete reasoning.

 

[ViaCrucis]

True....but it is amazing how differently the guidance of God will be on two different people who have vastly different backgrounds in life!!!!

God wants to shown Himself strong on behalf of everybody....but our background is taken into consideration and the type of ministry that somebody has can be radically different because of what they have been shown and experienced and seen in life that the rest of us cannot really relate to??!!


2Chronicles 16:8 "Were not the Ethiopians and the Lubims a huge host, with very many chariots and horsemen? yet, because thou didst rely on the LORD, he delivered them into thine hand.
For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of [them] whose heart [is] perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars.
Then Asa was wroth with the seer, and put him in a prison house; for [he was] in a rage with him because of this [thing]. And Asa oppressed [some] of the people the same time."

I have heard a theory on the background to this situation that would cause this centurion to feel that he was not worthy to have Jesus under his roof. It may relate to this issue but.....this man had a gift of astonishing faith no matter what he had been through as a Roman centurion?????!!!!


Luke 7:6 "Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof:Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed.For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth [it].
When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel."

As you can guess many of the customs in the Roman legions of that time were not exactly kosher by Jewish and Christian standards.....yet in spite of his own guilt over his own sins.....the centurion had a phenomenal depth of faith and concern for his servant who was sick!!!!!

With all due respect, I have no idea what this post means.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[football5680]

"They say I don't belong
I must stay below, alone
Because of my beliefs I've supposed to stay where evil is sewn
But what is evil anyway?
Is there reason to the rhyme.
Without evil there can be no good so it must be good to be evil sometimes"
-Satan (South Park)

It's important for it to be a choice to absolve god, isn't it? To eternally punish someone otherwise would make god nothing less than malevolent. I suppose it also gives you an excuse not to feel bad for the billions of people who don't make it to heaven; men, women, children...

I promise not to complain if you point and laugh at me from heaven.

Hell isn't a punishment. God respects our free will and won't force us to accept him and be in his presence for eternity. Hell is just eternal separation from god's love and protection.

Even the people who died before Jesus came will still have a chance to accept him and gain entrance into heaven.

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (1 Peter 4:6)

I wouldn't laugh at anybody being sent to hell. I just hope you change your ways before it is too late. You have nothing to lose if you believe in god and everything to gain. If god doesn't exist your fate will be the same as everybody else, if he does exist then you already know what will happen.

 

[football5680]

OK, but what about people who ignore what Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua stated about calling people worthless or a fool or something along that line?????!!!

Christian Andreason:
"If this world was to ever find out just a small amount of what sexually diverse (gay) people are here to do on this planet, there would never be one single wisecrack or hurtful remark made ever again. Instead there would be great respect! People who speak disrespectful things about people of this orientation ... enact judgment, and do so from a place of unenlightenment, insecurity, ego and socially induced prejudice. Some may use mistranslated scriptures taught to them, not by the Holy Spirit ... but by fear-filled human beings."

Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua:

"You have heard that *the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be *liable to the court.'
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be *guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, '*You good-for-nothing,' shall be *guilty before *the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be *guilty enough to go into the *fiery hell."(Matthew 5:21,22, NASB)

What about insulting people Football5680.....is insulting people and calling them worthless the type of sin that can also put one into a hellish state of mind??????!!!!

.near-death.com/ritchie.html
Dr. George Ritchie:
.......
.....

Who said they were worthless? Everybody has the same potential and if they wanted to they could choose to live a life in line with the commandments of god. But they reject those commandments and god will give them over to their sins.

Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. (Romans 1:28)

If I said they are perfectly fine and nothing is wrong with them then I would be no better than Satan. I would disregard the message of Jesus that instructs me to love my neighbor. The path they are on leads to hell and I don't want anybody to experience that. I'm not going to turn a blind eye and let them go to hell. If somebody was walking into traffic wouldn't you try to save them? We have been given the secret to eternal life and keeping that secret to ourselves would be selfish and evil.

You can worry about people's feelings while I worry about their soul. Feelings are temporary, the soul is eternal. They won't care about their feelings being hurt on earth if they have eternal bliss in heaven being in the presence of their creator.

 

[awitch]

Hell isn't a punishment. God respects our free will and won't force us to accept him and be in his presence for eternity. Hell is just eternal separation from god's love and protection.

That's at odds with all of the Christians who tell me hell is a real, physical place of eternal torture. But not having any perceivable interaction with your god, I don't believe, and follow some other gods and therefore, I tend to think I am already separated...and doing just fine.

You have nothing to lose if you believe in god and everything to gain. If god doesn't exist your fate will be the same as everybody else, if he does exist then you already know what will happen.

I do believe in god, just not yours. You can read more about Pascal's Wager here.