God's Law And Unbelievers

[Hazelelponi]

I'm posting in the debate section so that I have a little more freedom in how I word any questions I have.

To start: what is the Biblical defense of having Covenant laws be national - e.g. over believers and unbelievers alike?

I see verses like 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 to be against trying to place the law which is over us as believers under God's Covenant over unbelievers also.

How is my thinking incorrect biblically?

Thank you so much. I fear I must understand this.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Revelation 2:23
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

All humans are under the law of God but not under the penalty of the law, death, if we Love Jesus.
His sacrifice for our sins satisfies the penalty of the Law

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

 

[d taylor]

I'm posting in the debate section so that I have a little more freedom in how I word any questions I have.

To start: what is the Biblical defense of having Covenant laws be national - e.g. over believers and unbelievers alike?

I see verses like 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 to be against trying to place the law which is over us as believers under God's Covenant over unbelievers also.

How is my thinking incorrect biblically?

Thank you so much. I fear I must understand this.

How are you seeing in 1st Corinthians 5 (12-13) what you stated. 1st Corinthians 5 (12-13) is speaking about a believer.

Believers should judge believers when it come to their actions, believers should never judge unbelievers as that is God's place to judge the unbeliever.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I'm posting in the debate section so that I have a little more freedom in how I word any questions I have.

To start: what is the Biblical defense of having Covenant laws be national - e.g. over believers and unbelievers alike?

I see verses like 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 to be against trying to place the law which is over us as believers under God's Covenant over unbelievers also.

How is my thinking incorrect biblically?

Thank you so much. I fear I must understand this.

sorry, could you clarify? I am not sure what you are asking.

 

[Hazelelponi]

sorry, could you clarify? I am not sure what you are asking.

In the other thread the Patriarch Kyrill was talking about states having laws against homosexuality because it's a sin yes?

So I'm asking why if people aren't in God's Covenant? It seems to me as if God allows people to choose this Covenant or reject it while alive... Certainly they are judged for their rejection, but it stands to reason that if God allows this rejection who are we to force the laws on them..?

Maybe I need to reevaluate how I'm wording this question, I'm sorry if I'm not explaining correctly.

 

[ArmyMatt]

In the other thread the Patriarch Kyrill was talking about states having laws against homosexuality because it's a sin yes?

So I'm asking why if people aren't in God's Covenant? It seems to me as if God allows people to choose this Covenant or reject it while alive... Certainly they are judged for their rejection, but it stands to reason that if God allows this rejection who are we to force the laws on them..?

Maybe I need to reevaluate how I'm wording this question, I'm sorry if I'm not explaining correctly.

that would be for that individual state to determine.

 

[Hazelelponi]

that would be for that individual state to determine.

Okay, so the Orthodox church doesn't teach that states should be ruled by Biblical law?

That's interesting, I misunderstood... Thank you for the clarification.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Okay, so the Orthodox church doesn't teach that states should be ruled by Biblical law?

That's interesting, I misunderstood... Thank you for the clarification.

well, ideally they would, but that’s not the world we live in.

 

[Soyeong]

I'm posting in the debate section so that I have a little more freedom in how I word any questions I have.

To start: what is the Biblical defense of having Covenant laws be national - e.g. over believers and unbelievers alike?

I see verses like 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 to be against trying to place the law which is over us as believers under God's Covenant over unbelievers also.

How is my thinking incorrect biblically?

Thank you so much. I fear I must understand this.

If you were spreading the Gospel message by calling for an unbeliever to repent from their sins, then then they could try to reject it by saying that they don't need to repent from transgressing the law of the New Covenant because they aren't under that covenant, so t is implied by calling for unbelievers to repent from transgressing God's law with they under God's law are obligated to obey it even though they aren't under the New Covenant. So it is God's sovereignty that is the source of our obligation to obey His law, while His covenants inform us of what has always been our obligation.

 

[Hazelelponi]

well, ideally they would, but that’s not the world we live in.

Why do you say ideally?

I am asking because I was convinced by a well reasoned argument in favor of homosexuals having the right to civil union because there are certain legal benefits thereof that heterosexuals enjoyed.

Those against the premise had the argument that a.) We should be governed by God's morality in the legal sense and b) if we allow one sexually deviant behavior to become normalized, it will open the floodgates of all manner of deviant behaviors.

So now we do see b. definitely has occurred here in America, and fast. So I admit I'm quite wrong in that regard, because I thought reason and morals would guide us... which is obviously incorrect.

But what I want to know is whether I'm wrong in the first regard as well. Am I reading scripture incorrectly?

However, I need the answer to be Scriptural.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Why do you say ideally?

I am asking because I was convinced by a well reasoned argument in favor of homosexuals having the right to civil union because there are certain legal benefits thereof that heterosexuals enjoyed.

Those against the premise had the argument that a.) We should be governed by God's morality in the legal sense and b) if we allow one sexually deviant behavior to become normalized, it will open the floodgates of all manner of deviant behaviors.

So now we do see b. definitely has occurred here in America, and fast. So I admit I'm quite wrong in that regard, because I thought reason and morals would guide us... which is obviously incorrect.

But what I want to know is whether I'm wrong in the first regard as well. Am I reading scripture incorrectly?

However, I need the answer to be Scriptural.

because ideally those who suffer from same sex attraction would also be struggling against those desires and those who don’t would be helping them in the struggle.

 

[Hazelelponi]

because ideally those who suffer from same sex attraction would also be struggling against those desires and those who don’t would be helping them in the struggle.

Is there a way to reach out to them now to help them?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Is there a way to reach out to them now to help them?

pray for them, instruct them on the truth in a loving but uncompromising way