GOD'S LAW AND THE SABBATH AND FOLLOWING MAN MADE TRADTIONS?

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello LGW.
Are you under the ordinances or not?

What is it that you mean by ordinances? If you are talking about the ceremonial, Levitical, sacrificial, annual festivals that were all shadows having there fulfillment in Jesus then no. We are under the New Covenant. Please see this link for detailed reply with scriptures.......

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What evening and which morning? The sun hadn't been created yet until the fourth day, so no, it isn't clear at all in scripture simply because you are interpreting in a way that makes sense to you while ignoring all other possibilities.

The Jews observe Saturday as the Sabbath due to their tradition, which is not the same as scriptural proof. There is nothing in scripture that demonstrate that God's days of creation were actual 24 hour days. Yes, some denominations hold to 24 hour days as part of their tradition, but it's based on how they chose to interpret scripture.

Jesus accounts for his commandments very well in his sermon on the mount, and there is nothing that commands worship on Saturday (is the word "Saturday" even in the bible? I don't think so.) or even teaches of observing the Sabbath at all. Strangely, all the ten Mosaic commandments are accounted for *but* observing the Sabbath, perhaps because *Jesus* is now the one who gives us rest.

To decide that a couple of our human-created calendars (that even use the names of other gods) as *God's* calendar is presumptuous.

Hi bekkilyn

Genesis 1
1, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2, And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3, And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4, And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5, And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. AND THE EVENING AND THE MORNING WAS THE FIRST DAY.

Hope this helps

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Ok friends I have to go out for a while so nice chatting with you all back when I can.

May God bless you all as you seek him who loves all through his Word

 

[bekkilyn]

We aren't, but God did...in a sense anyway, as he commanded/crafted the rule, not us, at least as far as the general commandment...rest on the Sabbath.

He won't force us to do anything in this age, a commandment is about as close to that as we are going to get.

Which of our human-created calendars are we using to determine which day is the real Sabbath?

Maybe it's Tuesday after all, despite poor Tom.

 

[bekkilyn]

Hi bekkilyn

Genesis 1
1, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2, And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3, And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4, And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5, And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. AND THE EVENING AND THE MORNING WAS THE FIRST DAY.

Hope this helps

How many hours were between evening and morning and where are those hours confirmed in scripture? (Though technically, human hours don't exist yet.) Remember we're not revolving around the sun, because God hadn't yet created the sun. Evening and morning is not necessarily the same as *sun*set and *sun* rise, as again, the sun wasn't yet created, so God has a whole different sort of evening and morning going on than the evenings and mornings we are currently used to. God's time is not our own.

 

[klutedavid]

What is it that you mean by ordinances? If you are talking about the ceremonial, Levitical, sacrificial, annual festivals that were all shadows having there fulfillment in Jesus then no. We are under the New Covenant. Please see this link for detailed reply with scriptures.......

Hello LGW.

So are you saying all ordinances are abolished?

Leviticus 19
29 Do not profane your daughter by making her a harlot, so that the land will not fall to harlotry and the land become full of lewdness.

Where is that ordinance in your excluded list?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

How many hours were between evening and morning and where are those hours confirmed in scripture? (Though technically, human hours don't exist yet.) Remember we're not revolving around the sun, because God hadn't yet created the sun. Evening and morning is not necessarily the same as *sun*set and *sun* rise, as again, the sun wasn't yet created, so God has a whole different sort of evening and morning going on than the evenings and mornings we are currently used to. God's time is not our own.

Hi bekkilyn

God's Word is very clear and easy to understand. Depends how many hours are between sunset and sunrise. You do not need to worry about how many hours are in the day. The hours are not important. It is the Sunset and Sunrise that make up the day. This is 1 day (Genesis 1:1-5). Nothing hard to understand here. There are 7 of these days in a week (Genesis 2:1-3) and we keep every seventh day as a Holy day as God commanded us (Exodus 20:8-11). Still nothing hard to understand there.

This is God's calendar from the creation week and the day/week principle has not changed. Very easy to follow and understand. The Jews have been following it for thousands of years.

It is not a matter of being legalistic as said earlier, it is a matter of faith that works by love that produces the fruit of obedience because of love to him who loves all. It then becomes a delight to those that love God (Isaiah 58:13) and is why Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15). If God's Word says it we should believe it.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Which of our human-created calendars are we using to determine which day is the real Sabbath?

The one we use.

I think human calender's are the only calender's we have access too, so I'd use the one that is generally used...

Excluding time zone, Is Saturday another day in other parts of the world or do we all use the same calendar?

 

[bekkilyn]

The one we use.

I think human calender's are the only calender's we have access too, so I'd use the one that is generally used...

Excluding time zone, Is Saturday another day in other parts of the world or do we all use the same calendar?

What about all the numerous human-created calendars that have been used since human creation? Our current calendar isn't really that old, relatively speaking. There is no scriptural proof that God was using our current calendar at creation, so how do we know which day is the true seventh day?

 

[bekkilyn]

Hi bekkilyn

God's Word is very clear and easy to understand. Depends how many hours are between sunset and sunrise. You do not need to worry about how many hours are in the day. The hours are not important. It is the Sunset and Sunrise that make up the day. This is 1 day (Genesis 1:1-5). Nothing hard to understand here. There are 7 of these days in a week (Genesis 2:1-3) and we keep every seventh day as a Holy day as God commanded us (Exodus 20:8-11). Still nothing hard to understand there.

This is God's calendar from the creation week and the day/week principle has not changed. Very easy to follow and understand. The Jews have been following it for thousands of years.

It is not a matter of being legalistic as said earlier, it is a matter of faith that works by love that produces the fruit of obedience because of love to him who loves all. It then becomes a delight to those that love God (Isaiah 58:13) and is why Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15). If God's Word says it we should believe it.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

*Sun*rise and *Sun*set cannot make a day because the sun hadn't been created until the fourth day, so where is the scriptural evidence that shows how many hours (that also hadn't yet been created) between evening and morning?

While God's calendar (assuming that he even has a linear calendar...is God required to exist within linear time?) may not have changed, our human-created calendars have changed numerous times, so again, no scriptural proof that our current calendar is the same as God's calendar.

It is your *tradition* that puts the Sabbath specifically on Saturdays. It's not a horrible tradition or anything like that, but the actual seventh day (even if it was 24 hours, which it certainly isn't required to be) of creation simply cannot be verified through scripture.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

*Sun*rise and *Sun*set cannot make a day because the sun hadn't been created until the fourth day, so where is the scriptural evidence that shows how many hours (that also hadn't yet been created) between evening and morning?

While God's calendar (assuming that he even has a linear calendar...is God required to exist within linear time?) may not have changed, our human-created calendars have changed numerous times, so again, no scriptural proof that our current calendar is the same as God's calendar.

It is your *tradition* that puts the Sabbath specifically on Saturdays. It's not a horrible tradition or anything like that, but the actual seventh day (even if it was 24 hours, which it certainly isn't required to be) of creation simply cannot be verified through scripture.

God's Word disagrees with you.... You have God's calendar. This is what we follow today

Genesis 1
1, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2, And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3, And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4, And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5, And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. AND THE EVENING AND THE MORNING WAS THE FIRST DAY.

Our human calendars have not changed the days and the weeks only how many of them are in a year. The days and weeks have always been the same and have their origin in the creation week.

God's Sabbath is not a tradition it is a commandment given to us by God as a memorial of creation (Exodus 20:8-11). You break it, you commit sin, the same as if you break any of the other commandments of God (James 2:8-12).

Sunday worship is a tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. Many have forsaken or been deceived into breaking God's 4th commandment and replaced it with Sunday worship. In times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to repent and believe His Word.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God?. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we believe God or man?

 

[Kenny'sID]

What about all the numerous human-created calendars that have been used since human creation? Our current calendar isn't really that old, relatively speaking. There is no scriptural proof that God was using our current calendar at creation, so how do we know which day is the true seventh day?

I only concern myself with what we have/use today. As far as I know the calendar is right on target, as I don't see a time in history where all on earth forgot what day it was.

But it doesn't matter..It's pretty easy for me to see, as long as I do to the best of my knowledge, God isn't going to hold me responsible for such things. He is a fair God and it's also easy to see, that would be the fair way to handle it, IF there were anything to handle, and again, I believe there is not..

Besides, I could complicate it all day long, but the commandment will remain the same.

 

[bekkilyn]

God's Word disagrees with you.... You have God's calendar. This is what we follow today

Genesis 1
1, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2, And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3, And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4, And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5, And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. AND THE EVENING AND THE MORNING WAS THE FIRST DAY.

Who should we believe? Our human calendars have not changed the days and the weeks only how many of them are in a year. The days and weeks have always been the same and have their origin in the creation week.

God's Sabbath is not a tradition it is a commandment given to us by God as a memorial of creation (Exodus 20:8-11). You break it you commit sin the same as if you break any of the other commandments of God (James 2:8-12).

Sunday worship is a tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. Many have forsaken or been deceived into breaking God's 4th commandment and replaced it with Sunday worship. In times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to repent and believe His Word.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God?. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we believe God or man?

You just keep repeating the same thing, but still haven't shown any evidence that God is following human-created calendars at creation. There have been *numerous* human-created calendars throughout history, and to somehow think that God was using the one we are currently using is not supported by scripture. Or even that God is limited by our human conception of time. There is no *sun*rise or *sun* set in the scriptures you quote because there is no sun. It hadn't been created yet. Therefore, the length of the day between evening and morning is unknown and nothing in scripture is able to determine it.

Your tradition of observing the Sabbath on *Saturday* is indeed a tradition as there is no scriptural evidence that the seventh day at creation was a Saturday, or even that Saturday even existed at the time. (Not to mention that the god Saturn hadn't yet been invented either, so I highly doubt that God had named one of his days after a pagan Roman god.)

 

[bekkilyn]

I only concern myself with what we have/use today. As far as I know the calendar is right on target, as I don't see a time in history where all on earth forgot what day it was.

But it doesn't matter..It's pretty easy for me to see, as long as I do to the best of my knowledge, God isn't going to hold me responsible for such things. He is a fair God and it's also easy to see, that would be the fair way to handle it, IF there were anything to handle, and again, I believe there is not..

Besides, I could complicate it all day long, but the commandment will remain the same.

I don't have an issue with people observing the Sabbath on Saturdays or any other day. It's healthy for us to have a physical day of rest regardless of our Sabbath beliefs.

The issue I have is with instructing people that one's very salvation is based on observing Saturday Sabbath. Observing the Sabbath simply cannot save us, and if it could, there would be no reason for Jesus to have died on the cross. His death would be meaningless.

 

[Kenny'sID]

as there is no scriptural evidence that the seventh day at creation was a Saturday, or even that Saturday even existed at the time.

Will you agree the 7th day existed or maybe there were no days, prove to me there was ever a day and this isn't all a dream...yeah, a dream...dat's it.

But seriously surely you are aware the 7th day existed, else the commandment could not have been given...it was named and in the English language that name equates to Saturday. How hard is that to understand? As hard as we make it.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It's healthy for us to have a physical day of rest regardless of our Sabbath beliefs.

It's a commandment, and yes, it's healthy to follow the commandments I suppose.

As far as not following that commandment to the tee sending us to hell? I honestly don't know, I just know I'm going to try to say on the safe side until I'm convinced otherwise.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You just keep repeating the same thing, but still haven't shown any evidence that God is following human-created calendars at creation. There have been *numerous* human-created calendars throughout history, and to somehow think that God was using the one we are currently using is not supported by scripture. Or even that God is limited by our human conception of time. There is no *sun*rise or *sun* set in the scriptures you quote because there is no sun. It hadn't been created yet. Therefore, the length of the day between evening and morning is unknown and nothing in scripture is able to determine it. Your tradition of observing the Sabbath on *Saturday* is indeed a tradition as there is no scriptural evidence that the seventh day at creation was a Saturday, or even that Saturday even existed at the time. (Not to mention that the god Saturn hadn't yet been invented either, so I highly doubt that God had named one of his days after a pagan Roman god.)

Hi bekkilyn

I am repeating the same thing because you seem to think what your saying about calendar changes has relevance to the creation week's definition of a day and a week and God's 4th commandment (Genesis 1:1-5; Genesis 2:1-3; Genesis 20:8-11).

The facts are these. A day and a week has been clearly defined in God's Word.....

Our human calendars have NOT changed the days and the weeks. We still have days and we still have 7 of them that make up one week. The calendars have only ever changed how many weeks and days we have in a year. This does not effect day and week observance. The days and weeks have always been the same and have their origin in the creation week. The Sabbath has been observed for thousands of years by the Jews who followed God's 4th commandment and still do today. Can't get much clearer than that no matter how many times you want to say the same thing. A day is a day as defined in God's Word and a week is a week as defined in God's Word and his commandments are the same as they have always been and is what is expected today if we love and follow Jesus (John 14:15).

God's Sabbath is not a tradition it is a commandment given to us by God as a memorial of creation (Exodus 20:8-11). You break it, you commit sin, the same as if you break any of the other commandments of God (James 2:8-12).

Sunday worship is a tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. Many have forsaken or been deceived into breaking God's 4th commandment and replaced it with Sunday worship. In times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to repent and believe His Word.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God?. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we believe God or man?

 

[christianforumsuser]

We tend to observe things within what signs and wisdom seem to show room for gains
The problem with worldly men in those groups is seeking money and status, for the pride, which blinds them to listening or not being quick to assume from their high positions.
But while it's nice to be in high position, climbing ranks in the world, it should be done humbly.
So in this regard one must attribute all His good traits to God, all the strength and gains, and to be used for God...But some men like heavy pockets. It's more blessed to give than receive, so a Living River flows

I just wish all people in God's will would consider traditions how God considers them, through Christ receiving such gift, even though there's sacrifice

 

[bekkilyn]

Will you agree the 7th day existed or maybe there were no days, prove to me there was ever a day and this isn't all a dream...yeah, a dream...dat's it.

But seriously surely you are aware the 7th day existed, else the commandment could not have been given...it was named and in the English language that name equates to Saturday. How hard is that to understand? As hard as we make it.

Now you're limiting God to our current calendar, and God is outside of human time limits. Certainly, he had a 7th day of his own, but it's not a day that necessarily matches up with our day, or even the current length of our days.

The different human calendars have not all been in agreement. The seventh day one one calendar may be our Tuesday, and some calendars don't even use seven day weeks. Even in our current day system, many people believe that Monday is the first day because it is the first day of the standard work week, so in such cases, the seventh day would be Sunday.

In any case, our salvation is not dependent on observing the Sabbath on the seventh day, or any other day, as it would render Jesus's sacrifice meaningless.

Remember that Jesus isn't looking for every possible way that he can condemn us. If he was concerned about using the Sabbath as "gotcha", he would have emphasized it in his sermon on the mount, but he didn't even mention it at all.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Now you're limiting God to our current calendar, and God is outside of human time limits. Certainly, he had a 7th day of his own, but it's not a day that necessarily matches up with our day, or even the current length of our days.

The different human calendars have not all been in agreement. The seventh day one one calendar may be our Tuesday, and some calendars don't even use seven day weeks. Even in our current day system, many people believe that Monday is the first day because it is the first day of the standard work week, so in such cases, the seventh day would be Sunday.

In any case, our salvation is not dependent on observing the Sabbath on the seventh day, or any other day, as it would render Jesus's sacrifice meaningless.

Remember that Jesus isn't looking for every possible way that he can condemn us. If he was concerned about using the Sabbath as "gotcha", he would have emphasized it in his sermon on the mount, but he didn't even mention it at all.

Of course it is a day that match's up with our day ......

Genesis 1
1, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2, And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3, And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4, And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5, And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. AND THE EVENING AND THE MORNING WAS THE FIRST DAY.