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GOD'S LAW AND JUDGEMENT TIME - ARE YOU READY?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, May 10, 2018.

  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi T7C, little busy today to do much posting but I like this post very much.

    Sometimes we forget that the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. The context of the scriptures are important but at the end of the day it does not matter how much of a scholar one is you cannot know God's ways as they are higher then the heavens if you seek it you will not find it in your own power. God's truth is revealed to babes which means anyone who seeks it through God as it must be revealed by God through his Spirit.

    It was the scholars and the wise in Jesus day the killed Jesus and persecuted the saints. This is the way it has been all through time. If God is not your teacher you will never know his ways as they are higher then our ways.

    Sometimes we forget that we need to have God as our guide and teacher.

    MATTHEW 11:25-27 [25], At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank you, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hid these things from the wise and prudent, and have revealed them to babes. [26], Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in your sight. [27], All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knows the Son, but the Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

    1 CORINTHIANS 2:14 [14] But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    JOHN 14:26 [26], But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

    JOHN 7:17 [17], If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

    JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    JOHN 16:13 [13], However, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

    the reason why many scholars in Jesus day crufied him was that they sort to find God's truth through their own efforts and by their own wisdom and understanding they knew not God.

    1 CORINTHIANS 1:19-21 [19], For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. [20], Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? [21], For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    You wont find God's truth by seeking it through men. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned and taught by God to those who seek God for it and continue in his WORD. This is also part of the NEW COVENANT promise..

    HEBREWS 8:11 [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

    ...............

    Thanks T7C and well written.;)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  2. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Oh, sure, you are welcome brother. It could be summed up in brief:

    1 Corinthians 1:22 KJB - For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

    1 Corinthians 1:23 KJB - But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;​
     
  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Yep I was going to add those into v19-21 I quoted above but left them out to abreviate. Thanks nicely said :)
     
  4. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Bottom line is we passed the judgment and have eternal life. The Christian does not attend the same judgment as the wicked. People can argue over the things that do not matter all they want. I'm a bottom line type.

    On revisiting your post Rom 14:10-11 Is that the judgment the Christian goes to? I ask because I have complied with v 11.

    bugkiller
     
  5. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    So there goes the KJV, as most do not understand it today.

    But you insist on using it. And now you insist that the TR, which I quoted for you, and the KJB was based on is a problem for you. Except that you acknowledge it actually is an Aorist.

    And unlike the example you gave you I did not insist on it being what the interlinear said but pointed out the evidence in the text.

    So your example was the opposite of that.

    And earlier when I quoted two Christians from the time period who fluently wrote in Greek, in regards to the handwriting in ordinances LGW rejected that as well, quoting to me--modern scholars instead.

    Why not just use your real measure? If Ellen White doesn't say it, then it isn't true.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
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  6. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    I think you typoed. It should be v 11 I think.

    bugkiller
     
  7. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    So when you quote scholars, you are doing so as a babe. When I quote people of the time, I am....a scholar?

    When I post the Greek, or the context, that is just trying to understand it from a worldly perspective.

    I think we know what is going on here.

    Ellen White ignored the fact that Daniel 7 was a judgment regarding nations and powers and delivering the saints, not examining them.

    Ellen White ignored that the cleansing in Daniel 8 was not from the Day of Atonement, but from a defiling little horn power.

    The problem is not that we are experts, the problem is it doesn't take an expert to see the chapters are not talking about what Ellen White says they are.

    So you have to say context doesn't matter.
     
  8. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    I grew up with all the newspaper theology there was. Largely I bought it hook line and sinker. This was before Islam became a factor. Looking at what they do I think they fit the prophecy much better than the RCC. They do seem to be taking a much different approach in the US. By 2035 they will be the majority voting population. They will get they way by voting.

    bugkiller
     
  9. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    To be effective in regard to eternal life this must be done prior to the demise of the body.

    You do make a good point.
    bugkiller
     
  10. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Opinion is not worth much.

    bugkiller
     
  11. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Especially when you can not get around them.

    bugkiller
     
  12. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    There is some great entertainment here at CF.

    bugkiller
     
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Nope not really. That was not the point to my post at all. Only providing the point that you cannot know God as a scholar. None of us can tall. The truth of God's WORD is only revealed as we all become babes and seek Jesus for it through his WORD. Please do not misunderstand my comments as directed towards you as they were not. It was the scholars of the day that put Jesus to death and persected the Saints. I do not like to use man made references. I think I stated this earlier and prefer God's WORD alone. But sometimes I will use them if I think others may benefit.

    Not at all there is nothing wrong with using the GREEK or HEBREW but I think T7C made some good points in relation to being able to understand the true meaning if context is not considered around the scripture in question.

    Well this does not need to be answered here. Let's talk scripture and look at your other post. It is missing context.
     
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello tall, yes there is a lot of truth in what you have posted here (most of the post; could not add all of it as it would not fit).

    Although the judgement of Daniel 7 as only in reference to the judgement of the 4 beasts I think is a mistake as it does not really apply full context and scripture order as shown in Daniel 7:9.

    The words “cast down” is from a single Aramaic word “remah’” meaning to “to place” or “set up” as well as “to throw” [25] down pillows or set up chairs to be seated upon. So, here, because “the Ancient of days” (who is God the Father) also “did sit,” Daniel was witnessing the convening of a judgment scene.

    Therefore, the four earthly beasts Daniel just described in verses 1-8 comprise the context of this heavenly judgment scene. And, because the four beasts arose sequentially, one after another, it stands to reason that the convening of this judgment took place in heaven sometime after the other “little horn” began to speak “great things.” Note v 9 now which is AFTER the thrones were cast down...

    DANIEL 7:9 [9], I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

    What Daniel is seeing now is something taking place AFTER the thrones (Beasts) where cast down and AFTER the establishment of the "Little Horn" that was speaking great things.

    The same sequence of events is then repeated and further explained by the angel in v16-27.

    I am not much for the commentaries as mentioned earlier but thought this interesting.

    Barnes' Notes on the Bible

    Until the Ancient of days came - Notes, Daniel 7:9. That is, this was to occur after the horn grew to its full size, and after the war was made with the saints, and they had been overcome. It does not affirm that this would occur immediately, but that at some subsequent period the Ancient of days would come, and would set up a kingdom on the earth, or would make over the kingdom to the saints. There would be as real a transfer and as actual a setting up of a peculiar kingdom, as if God himself should appear on the earth, and should publicly make over the dominion to them.

    ............

    So the context and scriptures here seem to indicate a judgement taking place sometime AFTER the establsihement of the little horn power (RCC) so cannot be the judgement of the 4 x kingdoms (beasts).

    v11 is a continuation of the beast (little Horn) being spoken about in v8 saying v11, I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spoke: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

    This is explained by the Angel again in v25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

    Now once again AFTER the establishment of the "Little Horn" AFTER wearing out the saints of the Most High and AFTER the little Horn thinking to change times and laws the ANGEL explains..

    v26-27 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it to the end. v27, And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

    Note what has happened here...

    The judgement shall sit AFTER the establsihement of the of the "Little Horn" and after its persecution of the Saints and after it has thought to change times and laws.

    back to v9-10

    DANIEL 7:9-10 [9], I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. [10], A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

    What books where opened? How are God's Saints determined so that dominion and God's Kingdom can be given to them? This is where the story is continued in the book of REVELATION.

    A similar scene in Revelation:

    REVELATION 4:2 [2], And immediately I was in the spirit; and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

    REVELATION 4:3 [3], And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

    REVELATION 5:6 [6], And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

    REVELATION 5:7 [7], And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

    REVELATION 5:11 [11], And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; <links to Daniel 7:10>

    .............

    DANIEL 7:10 ... the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

    REVELATION 20:11-12 [11], And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    [12], And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    REVELATION 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

    The saints and wicked are Judged and determined before the 2nd advent.

    ISAIAH 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

    2 THESSOLINIANS 2:8 [8], And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    REVELATION 22:12, And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    If God's judgement does not take place until the 2nd coming then the scriptures above are not true.

    Hope this helps.

    Will need to chat more latter bye for now :wave:
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  15. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    God judges all the nations, and was the one to take away their dominion, because He sets up kings and takes them down. This is why I asked you your view of the timing earlier. The changes in these kingdoms did indeed happen before the little horn.

    However, even here He allows the nations to continue to exist. But the fourth is destroyed along with the little horn. And all of Rome is not professed followers either.



    You just added to the text. God is not confused who His saints are. The saints and little horn were clearly referenced in the text. And as even James White knew, before He didn't, Jesus knows who are His. He knows His sheep.

    Why did you have to go to a totally different judgment, in a totally different scene? I think it is because your text in Daniel 7 doesn't say what you say.

    It doesn't picture individual judgment. The one in Rev. 20 clearly does. Which is why you have to quote Rev. 20.

    Of course they are, He knows His own sheep.

    Here, James White can explain it to you:

    It is not necessary that the final sentence should be given before the first resurrection, as some have taught; for the names of the saints are written in heaven, and Jesus, and the angels will certainly know who to raise, and gather to the New Jerusalem. "A Word to the Little Flock"

    But you still didn't show a judgment on saints in Daniel 7--and there is still the destruction of Rome in the time frame you reference, along with the little horn. And the others are allowed to exist.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  16. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    So for instance, if I can understand the RV better, or it is more accurate for a given text, I should use that?
     
  17. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    It was certainly curiously timed though, don't you think?
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello tall, thanks for your thoughts, Not sure of your point here or why you think I do not believe God judges nations. What is a nation? It is a people. It is people that make up nations. and the people within the nations that God judges.

    I did not add to the text at all only pointed out the context you missed out comparing the dream and context of the dream with the Angels intepretation of the dream.

    These are the two great witnesses from the OLD and NEW COVENANT. You should know that the books of DANIEL and REVELATIONS go to gether to help interpret prophecy. You can see the scripture links (already provided) as well as the Chapter context of Daniel 7.

    Well here we disagree as the previous post shows that the context of God's judgement is after the rising of the little horn, the persecution of the saints and thinking to change times and laws. The judgement of the nations is judgement of people and the judgements of God being delivered to the wicked and saints at the second coming.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  19. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Sorry you took it that way tall, that was not my intension. If the post was directed at you I would have posted it to you. Please forgive any misunderstanding that may have been caused by my post. If you read it you would have noted I applied it to myself.

    Sorry will need to leave this now as my lunch break is finishing. BB for now. :wave:
     
  20. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Understood, and if you did not intend it such, there is nothing to forgive. And I hope you forgive me for jumping to the conclusion. God bless.
     
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