GOD'S LAW AND JUDGEMENT TIME - ARE YOU READY?

tall73

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Now your making false arguments. These examples were provided as those who were lead of God but made mistakes. No one said their mistakes were led of God.

But Ellen White did say Miller's mistakes were led of God. She even said one of them was hidden by His hand so that no one could see it. And she said God designed to test them, and that they should meet with disappointment. This is why you can't have it both ways.

If God was testing, then Miller was led by God, as Ellen White indicates. But you keep trying to make it sound like just Miller's mistake, instead of God testing.
 
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tall73

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Well it depende. If you have been given a knowledge of what truth is and you reject it then you have rejected the Word of God and are accountable to it especially if it is a salvation issue. *Acts 17:30-31
So you mean like Miller rejecting Jesus' words about date setting regarding Jesus' second coming?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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But Ellen White did say Miller's mistakes were led of God. She even said one of them was hidden by His hand so that no one could see it. And she said God designed to test them, and that they should meet with disappointment. This is why you can't have it both ways.

Not at all. She said that the prophetic time line and its fulfillment was lead of God. Not the application to the 2nd coming. This is something you said that is not true as shown in earlier posts already.

If God was testing, then Miller was led by God, as Ellen White indicates. But you keep trying to make it sound like just Miller's mistake, instead of God testing.

Well that is not true. All through this discussion we have been discussion parrallels to God's followers all through time, even the disciples of Jesus all met with testing times through a wrong application or understanding of the scriptures and how God revealed the true meaning of the scriptures in his own appointed time. Miller did make a mistake to the application of Daniel 8:14. This was latter corrected.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That is only your characterization. We can only repeat so many times.
Indeed seems we are wasting time. Do you have any scriptures to share?
It does not say it is breaking down the 2,300 year prophecy.
Not in those words but it is very clear it is as outlined in the previous post.
It says the vision of Chapter 8 is sealed. It never says it is unfinished. You have not addressed that.
Indeed at the time of the vision it was sealed. We are living in the end days now many years after.
You have simply asserted that the chapter 9 is talking about the 2,300 days, and have given no evidence.
No I didn't I was only drawing parallels to which you stated there were none and Daniel 8 was an island unto it self.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Now who is the one leaving out what she said? Why did you not quote the rest?

I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels' messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness

She believed the door was shut in 1844 on those who had rejected the message. But the message leading up to Oct. 22, 1844, was all about the second coming, and that is why they rejected it. And she condemned them in Early Writings for rejecting the false date-setting message of Miller regarding the second coming.

Here let me post it for you again. Not sure why you have trouble reading this. It is pretty clear and it is not what your saying at all...

The “Shut Door” Defined

For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.

I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

There was a shut door in Noah's day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah:

“My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3).

There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven.

There was a shut door in Christ's day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, “Your house is left unto you desolate” (Matthew 23:38).

Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John:“These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth” (Revelation 3:7)

..............

Doesn't seem to be what your saying at all now does it.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That is not what she said:
I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels' messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness The door was shut in 1844, not after. A shut door means it is not open any longer.
This is just repitition of the previous post already answered no need to repeat this here.
Now explain why those who rejected the date setting of Miller in regards to the second coming were rejecting God.
Read the earlier post this has already been addressed. The first vision was in relation to past, present and future events before the 2nd coming and was given after the great dissappointment of 1844. Your view seems to be that if the application was wrong by the Millerites, all the prophetic time line is also wrong. So so in your vierw throw it all away.

An error mixed with truth does not make the truth no longer truth. The prophetic time periods from Daniel and Leviticus were correct. The Millerites application of the prophetic timeline to the 2nd coming was not.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The reason his message was rejected was because he was date setting for the second coming. Whether the time line was right or note makes no difference as to why they rejected the message. They rejected it because he was making an application to the second coming, against the Bible.

Well that is not true. After the great disappointment many were lead back to study God's Word to see what had happened. This lead to the correct understanding of the application of the prophetic time period at God's appointed time. Your view seems to be that if the application was wrong by the Millerites all the prophetic time line is also wrong. So therefore throw it all away. An error mixed with truth does not make the truth no longer truth. The prophetic time periods from Daniel and Leviticus were correct. The Millerites application of the prophetic timeline to the 2nd coming was not.

You have still not explained why those who actually went by the Scriptures and rejected date setting for the second coming were the wrong ones. And those who ignored the words of Jesus and Paul were the right ones by making a failed prediction of Jesus' coming, when they should not have date set.

That is not true either. Please read earlier posts. Once again your repeating yourself. The prophetic time period was correct. The application to the 2nd coming however was not.

A message with falsehood is not true. His message was Jesus coming in 1843. That was completely untrue.

Once again your repeating yourself. The prophetic time period was correct. The application to the 2nd coming however was not.

And the whole basis of their rejection was the time setting for the second coming. And Ellen White condemns them for correctly pointing this out.

Once again your repeating yourself. The prophetic time period was correct. The application to the 2nd coming however was not. Your taking the first vision out of context. This is sad for you.

Your assertion is they were correct. You have not actually shown your work on the start date.

Not at all. You have been shown already through scripture before you abandened it to forcus your attention on EGW.

Hope this helps...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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No, she says there was a shut door in 1844. According to her they were already toast and could not re-examine.

Nope....

" For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.

I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

There was a shut door in Noah's day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah:

“My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3).

There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven.

There was a shut door in Christ's day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, “Your house is left unto you desolate” (Matthew 23:38).

Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John:“These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth” (Revelation 3:7)
" 1 SM 63

..............

Doesn't seem to be what your saying at all now does it.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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And inside the Seventh-day Adventist church, because that is who she was talking to. Notice he last sentence.

Many who have called themselves Adventists have been time setters. Time after time has been set for Christ to come, but repeated failures have been the result. The definite time of our Lord's coming is declared to be beyond the ken of mortals. Even the angels who minister unto those who shall be heirs of salvation know not the day nor the hour. "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only." Because the times repeatedly set have passed, the world is in a more decided state of unbelief than before in regard to the near advent of Christ. They look upon the failures of the time setters with disgust; and because men have been so deceived, they turn from the truth substantiated by the word of God that the end of all things is at hand. {4T 307.1}
Those who so presumptuously preach definite time, in so doing gratify the adversary of souls; for they are advancing infidelity rather than Christianity. They produce Scripture and by false interpretation show a chain of argument which apparently proves their position. But their failures show that they are false prophets, that they do not rightly interpret the language of inspiration. The word of God is truth and verity, but men have perverted its meaning. These errors have brought the truth of God for these days into disrepute.
Testimonies vol 4, pg 307

Glad you agree. So then what is your point? And what was the truth of God she was referring to?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I am agreeing Cain's murder of Abel was wrong. And Abraham would be aware of that. But there was no law against sacrificing of people to God, and Abraham did not object. Later a law was spelled out regarding this.
If your agreeing with what I have said and you also say that Abraham would have known that murder is wrong then there is no argument here and the point your making has no point. Your only agreeing with what I am saying to you as Abraham already had God's laws and was obeying them.
He had no evidence at all to the contrary of it being God's will. There was no law forbidding sacrifice of people to God. He did not even raise an objection as he did when God was going to destroy Sodom.

Well that is not true. Genesis 26:5 [5], Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws [Torah].
Now Miller on the other hand did not hear from God, by his own account. And Miller had clear scriptures against date setting for Jesus' second coming. And those who heard his message rejected it because of Scripture.
Both Abraham and Miller had the Word of God. Abraham heard God's Word. Miller read God's Word. Both did not understand the purpose of God's Word until it was revealed in God's appointed time. For the Millerites, the prophetic time periods from Daniel and Leviticus were correct. The Millerites application of the prophetic timeline to the 2nd coming was not correct. This was made plain at a time of God's own appointing.
The two are not the same at all.
Not exactly no, but in some ways they were. The purpose of God's WORD in the case of Abraham was not to get Abraham to offer his son as a burnt offering but to test his loyalty. The application of the prophetic time period of the Millerites to the 2nd coming was not correct but fulfilled the applications of the prophetic time period to the Feast of Trumpets and the start of the cleansing of the Sanctuary. In both cases in God's appointed time God's Word and purpose was made plain and a correct understanding of his Word was provided. Both were testing times for those professing to follow God's Word.
And yet not every killing was murder. Abraham was not punished as a murderer for hunting down those who kidnapped Lot. And if God told him to sacrifice his son, and there was no law against it, it does not follow that he would have known any different. He makes no objection at all.
There is a difference between God punishing those in the OLD Testament for sin. The wages of sin is death. This example does not apply as Abraham was not carrying out the purpose of God's judgment for sin. This was also not the purpose why God asked Abraham to offer his son as a burnt offering. God's purpose was revealed to Abraham at a latter date after he was tested and his son was not offered as a burnt offering which was never God's purpose.
Miller would certainly know different, and if he didn't before he was reminded over and over again about date setting.
Now your judging another as well as God's purpose in fulfilling the prophetic time lines. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment time.
But it goes beyond that. He had clear scripture warnings not to preach definite time for Jesus second coming. So did Ellen White and all those who followed Miller. Yet Ellen White condemned those who rejected Miller's date setting. She even mentions their objection--the definite time, the day and the hour, etc. She acknowledges they were quoting Scripture to address Miller's mistake. Yet Miller and her dismissed it. And they should not have. The people were right to rebuke the date setting, and Miller's message did not come to pass.
Not really tall, once again your taking the EGW writings out of context in relation to the first vision and applying past, present and future application solely to the past. This is your mistake. Everything that happened in the Millerite movement was in fulfillment of the prophetic timelines of Daniel and Leviticus 23. God corrected the wrong application of the scriptures to the 2nd coming in his appointed time after 1844.
Even if you think the prophetic periods were true, the message Jesus coming, which was Miller's actual message, was not true.
I am not sure why you keep repeating yourself here were we both have already agreed on this from the very begining. Your view seems to be that if the application was wrong by the Millerites in relation to the 2nd coming, then all the prophetic time line is also wrong. So therefore throw it all away.

An error mixed with truth does not make the truth no longer truth. The prophetic time periods from Daniel and Leviticus were indeed correct. The Millerites application of the prophetic timeline to the 2nd coming was not correct as we both agree. God revealed the correct application to the cleansing of the Sanctuary and the investigative judgment is his appointed time after 1844.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: Not at all, I reject your claim above. We should always test everything by the Word of God.

And they did. They pointed out Miller's message of Jesus coming to earth was against the Scriptures.

Not really tall. There was a lot of scripture linked to this message. Not all of it was not correct or in error. Your view is that because there was no 2nd coming then all the scriptures provided with this prophetic time line are not correct either. An error mixed with truth does not make the truth no longer truth. The prophetic time periods from Daniel and Leviticus were correct. The Millerites application of the prophetic timeline to the 2nd coming was not.

You have yet to explain how Miller could possibly pass that test, since he preached quite clearly a time for Jesus' return.

Posted on this many times already you seem to have ignored it.

Of course it was not. They applied it to the second coming. That was incorrectly applied.

The prophetic time period was correctly applied was in reference to the figures being correct. You have even posted something now that I have written to make it sound as if it is something I am not saying. I have never said once that the Millerites correctly applied the prophetic time period correctly to the 2nd coming.

Whether you think the later message was correct is immaterial to the fact that Miller's message was Jesus coming in 1843, then 1844. That is what the people rightly tested. And Ellen White condemned them for following what the Scriptures said, and for rejecting Miller's false message.

Not at all. It was out of this message that the prophetic time period was fulfilled. You keep making references to an EGW quote that was past present and future and only apply it as a past application. This is your mistake.

A message based on falsehood is false. Miller's message was false. And had Miller concerned himself with testing it by Scripture he would have never given his false message in the first place.

I see so in your view all those who did not understand God's Word right away but were corrected at a latter time were lost? We discussed this already. There are too many examples of God's people all through time that had an incorrect understanding of the scriptures that God revealed to them at a latter date.

You were provided many examples of God's people having a wrong understanding of the scriptures all through time that was corrected at a latter time of God's appointing.

We have Christ's own disciples thinking that Jesus was to come as a conqouring king, and their dissappointment at his death. Abraham's sacrifice where Abraham was lead to believe God wanted him to sacrifice his own son. The two disciples walking with Jesus after his death not even knowing it was Jesus. John the Baptist did not even know that Jesus was the Messaiah.

Now all the above either had a wrong understanding of the scriptures or did not know them and God revealed his truth and corrected their understanding of the scriptures in his own appointed time.

For reasons that God alone can explain best, Bible students in 1843 needed the experience of 1843-1844. Obviously God could have "stepped in" and guaranteed every date, every line of reasoning, when the 1843 chart was prepared. But that kind of divine intervention has been rare throughout history. Permitting men and women to work through their problems, learning special lessons that would not have been experienced otherwise, seems to have been God's general plan according to scripture would you not agree?

What would have happened if William Miller had preached the true significance of 1844? What kind of public response would he have received if he had proclaimed the truth about a change in Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary instead of emphasizing His imminent return? No one would have listened to him; no one would have been stirred to read the Bible.

After the disappointment of October 22, a group of his followers restudied their Bibles to discover the real meaning of 1844, an interest that never would have developed if Miller had not focused their attention on the Bible and its prophecies prior to 1844.

Your view seems to be that if the application was wrong by the Millerites all the prophetic time line is also wrong. So therefore throw it all away. An error mixed with truth does not make the truth no longer truth. The prophetic time periods from Daniel and Leviticus were correct. The Millerites application of the prophetic timeline to the 2nd coming was not correct. God revealed the correct application of this message to the Feast of Trumpets and the Christs ministration in the heavenly Sanctuary in his appointed time.

Lot's of parrallels don't you think?

We agree! God spoke to Abraham. Miller agrees God did not speak to him. God tested Abraham. God did not test those in Miller's day with a false message that Miller would have never preached if he had read the words of Christ against date setting.

Not at all my friend. You missed the point which was that in Abrahams day there was no written Word so God spoke to him directly. In William Millers day there was the written Word. Both are the Word of God. Who are you to say God was not guiding William Miller to guide him in the calculations of the 2300 year prophecy of Daniel 8:14? Both Abraham and Miller did not understand God's WORD or it's purpose at the time they both recieved God's Word. This was not made plain until God's appointed time.

Now of course Ellen White says God did condemn those who followed the words of Jesus and Paul. But of course, He did not condemn those who followed His word over those who put their experience first and ignored His word.

Well that is not true at all and taking the first vision out of context which was given after the great dissappointment of 1844. Your just repeating yourself now. The first vision has past, present and future applications. Your mistake here is applying everything to the past.

LGW wrote; Not at all the cleansing of the Sanctuary is a direct reference to the day of atonement (Daniel 8:14).

No, in this case it is a direct reference to cleansing from the defilement of the little horn. But in any case Miller preached Jesus' coming. That was his message. And it was a false message. And she judged them on it.

Well that is not true. The cleaning of the Sanctuary outlined in Leviticus 16 makes this very clear what the cleansing of the Sanctuary is about. It is the removal of all the sins of God's people from the presence of God and atonement for the sins of God's people.

Much scripture has been provided for this that disagrees with you your interpretation here. e.g.

* Posts # 582 linked Click me
* Posts # 583 linked Click me

This was around the time you did not want to discuss the scriptures anymore and wanted to talk about EGW all of a sudden.
 
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tall73

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Here let me post it for you again. Not sure why you have trouble reading this. It is pretty clear and it is not what your saying at all...

The “Shut Door” Defined

For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.

I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

There was a shut door in Noah's day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah:

“My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3).

There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven.

There was a shut door in Christ's day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, “Your house is left unto you desolate” (Matthew 23:38).

Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John:“These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth” (Revelation 3:7)

..............

Doesn't seem to be what your saying at all now does it.

Hope this helps.

How many times are you going to leave off the next part? You quoted the whole thing earlier, so you know it.


For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.

I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

There was a shut door in Noah's day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah:

"My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years" (Gen. 6:3).

There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven.

There was a shut door in Christ's day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, "Your house is left unto you desolate" (Matt. 23:38).

Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John:

"These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth" (Rev. 3:7).

I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels' messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness. --Ms. 4, 1883; Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 63-64.


Why do you keep leaving off that statement?



She says she no longer holds, as she did for a time, that the whole world was lost, and had the door shut on it. But she does still believe those who in 1844 rejected the message--the message of Miller--were lost.

That is a shut door. She judged them on Miller's false message. Now quit leaving off the parts you don't like.

The reason you want to leave it off is you know she is saying that God rejected those who correctly rebuked Miller for date setting about Jesus' coming. That was the only message given before the door was shut on Oct. 22, 1844, the coming of Jesus to earth. It was false, and it was against the Scriptures.
 
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tall73

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Indeed seems we are wasting time. Do you have any scriptures to share?

Not in those words but it is very clear it is as outlined in the previous post.
It is not clear at all. It does not say the start of the time period of Daniel 8 is found in 9.

If it were clear all of the commentators would see it. They do not of course because it is not clear at all, and doesn't say it.

Indeed at the time of the vision it was sealed. We are living in the end days now many years after.
Yes, it was true, and sealed up for later. It said nothing about the start date not being given.

No I didn't I was only drawing parallels to which you stated there were none and Daniel 8 was an island unto it self.
I stated that the vision was true and sealed up. You have again admitted it does not say that the time period of 8 starts at the same time as 9. So again, you just assume it.
 
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Not at all. You have been shown already through scripture before you abandened it to forcus your attention on EGW.

Hope this helps...

No, we have not been shown any Scripture that says the vision of Daniel 8 starts when the vision of Daniel 9 does because there is no text that says that.

Daniel 8's vision was already explained, and true, and sealed up.

It as not interrupted as Ellen White claims.
 
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If your agreeing with what I have said and you also say that Abraham would have known that murder is wrong then there is no argument here and the point your making has no point. Your only agreeing with what I am saying to you as Abraham already had God's laws and was obeying them.

It is up to you to point out where God said not to sacrifice children to him before the law was given to Moses. We agreed Abraham knew that murder was wrong. Murdering someone out of hate, etc. is not the same as sacrificing children to God.

It is up to you to show that God had already commanded not to. That is your claim--back it up.

Well that is not true. Genesis 26:5 [5], Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws [Torah].
Yes, he obeyed all God gave him. It is up to you to demonstrate that He had given him a law against child sacrifice, because it is not mentioned anywhere as being given to him.


Now your judging another as well as God's purpose in fulfilling the prophetic time lines. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment time.

It is Ellen White who judged those who rightly rejected Miller's unscriptural message.


I am not sure why you keep repeating yourself here were we both have already agreed on this from the very begining. Your view seems to be that if the application was wrong by the Millerites in relation to the 2nd coming, then all the prophetic time line is also wrong. So therefore throw it all away.
No, my application is that Ellen White condemned those who rightly rejected Miller's date setting. And they rejected it because it was tied to the second coming. That was why they rejected it.

So saying, well it was true except for the part that wasn't--the part they actually rejected--but they deserved to be judged for correctly applying the Scriptures, does not make sense.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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How many times are you going to leave off the next part? You quoted the whole thing earlier, so you know it.

For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.

I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

There was a shut door in Noah's day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah:

"My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years" (Gen. 6:3).

There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven.

There was a shut door in Christ's day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, "Your house is left unto you desolate" (Matt. 23:38).

Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John:

"These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth" (Rev. 3:7).

I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels' messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness. --Ms. 4, 1883; Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 63-64.


Why do you keep leaving off that statement?
Now tall, you know that the reason as to what I posted earlier was the CONTEXT to what you where not adding to your post. I posted it to highlight the CONTEXT you left off your post.

Which is...

"For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.

I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

There was a shut door in Noah's day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah:

"My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years" (Gen. 6:3).

There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven.

There was a shut door in Christ's day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, "Your house is left unto you desolate" (Matt. 23:38).

Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John:

"These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth" (Rev. 3:7)."

The above is showing CONTEXT to what you left out of your earlier posts...

"I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels' messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness."

Adding furter post context we read...

"And those who accepted it and received the Holy Spirit which attended the proclamation of the message from heaven, and who afterward renounced their faith and pronounced their experience a delusion, thereby rejected the Spirit of God, and it no longer pleaded with them.


Those who did not see the light, had not the guilt of its rejection. It was only the class who had despised the light from heaven that the Spirit of God could not reach. And this class included, as I have stated, both those who refused to accept the message when it was presented to them, and also those who, having received it, afterward renounced their faith.

These might have a form of godliness, and profess to be followers of Christ; but having no living connection with God, they would be taken captive by the delusions of Satan. These two classes are brought to view in the vision--those who declared the light which they had followed a delusion, and the wicked of the world who, having rejected the light, had been rejected of God.

No reference is made to those who had not seen the light, and therefore were not guilty of its rejection." -Ms. 4, 1883; Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 63-64.

...........

All sounds a bit different when you add the context now doesn't it? It is not what you are promoting

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It is not clear at all. It does not say the start of the time period of Daniel 8 is found in 9.

Well maybe it is not clear to you. For me it is very clear and starts from the scriptures applied in Daniel 9:24-27.

DANIEL 8:14 [14], And he said unto me, For two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

DANIEL 9:24-27 [24], Seventy weeks are determined upon your people and upon your holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.[25], Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublesome times. [26], And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and its end shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [27], And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem is found in Ezra 7:1-26 was 457 BC. This is the only date that fits all the prophecy descriptions.

If it were clear all of the commentators would see it. They do not of course because it is not clear at all, and doesn't say it.

Now tall, why do you think that God only reveals his truth to commentators? If that were the case the whole world would be saved. The wisdom of men is foolishness to God and higher then the heavens. It can only be received as a gift.

It was sinners, fisherman and taxcollectors that became the Apostles of God in the days of Jesus and not the commentators of the day that wore long robes to be seen of men.

I stated that the vision was true and sealed up. You have again admitted it does not say that the time period of 8 starts at the same time as 9. So again, you just assume it.

Not at all we already have shown earlier through the scriptures that Daniel 7, 8, 9, 11 and 12 are discussing parallels of each other in relation to different aspects of the vision that Daniel received.

The time lines fit very well to the requirements of the vision don't you think?

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If you disagree by all means let's see you explain it?
 
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