GOD'S LAW AND JUDGEMENT TIME - ARE YOU READY?

LoveGodsWord

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I am guessing you don't actually mean this.

The application here is that the cleansing and restoring of God's truth of the Sanctuary of Daniel 8:11-14 is 2300 years after the activities of the little horn that were listed earlier from in Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 which is context.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Thousands were led to embrace the truth preached by William Miller, and servants of God were raised up in the spirit and power of Elijah to proclaim the message.
Early Writings

This is why we are still discussing 1844.


William Miller did not preach the truth when he said that Jesus would come to earth in 1843. And Ellen White could never accept that.

Not sure why you feel the need to disuss the SOP and William Miller and not God's Word. You seem to shy away from discussing the scriptures on this topic here for some reason.

I have checked up on some of references of the SOP you have supplied and see you have been taken out of context to make them say something they are not. (EGW and Leviticus 16; 1st Vision and the 2nd coming)

As I said earlier I am happy to talk scripture with you. I am not here to discuss the SOP. If you cannot make your point with God's WORD then you may need to evaluate what it is you believe. Something to pray and think about anyway and only said with much love in the Lord.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Actually it is saying the ACTIVITY of the little horn in relation to the sanctuary stops.

Absoulutely :oldthumbsup:. This is what is being shared with you. It is God's truth in relation to the Sanctuary that is restored. This is the time of the day of atonement and the cleasning of the Sanctuary the final part of Gods plan of salvation for mankind (God's people).

And it is obvious if you stop cutting off the question as Ellen White did in the Great Controversy, and show how the answer relates to the question.

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, “How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?”


How long will the trampling, the transgression of desolation, giving of sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot.......

That is the question.

14 And he said to me, “For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.”


After 2,300 days the sanctuary will no longer be trampled, etc.

Well your only repeating yourself now. This post has already been addressed throughout this thread already. Detailed scripture has been provided showing context and word application in the linked posts below.

* Posts # 582 linked Click me
* Posts # 583 linked Click me

You are missing out the context with your application of Daniel 8:13-14. Maybe this is effecting your interpretation. Something to pray about anyways.

DANIEL 8:10-12
[10], And it grew great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
[11], Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
[12], And a host was given him to oppose the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it did this, and prospered.

then we read...

[13], Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint who spoke, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
[14], And he said unto me, For two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The application here is to the Heavenly Sanctuary not the earthly. This is the restoring of God's truth and the beginning of the great day of Atonement. You seem to be applying this to the earthly Sanctuary and the cleansing to the little horn when cleansing of the Sanctuary in God's Word is for the atonement and removal of the sins of God's people from the precence of God.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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tall73

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This takes place 2300 years after the establishment of the little horn

I am guessing you don't actually mean this.

The application here is that the cleansing and restoring of God's truth of the Sanctuary of Daniel 8:11-14 is 2300 years after the activities of the little horn that were listed earlier from in Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 which is context.

Huh?
First of all the reason I said I don't think you believe it is that you said it is 2,300 years after the establishment of the little horn. If the little horn is the papacy, you have quite a few too many years there.

But then you said the cleansing was 2,300 years after the activity of the little horn.....no, after 2,300 mornings and evenings the activity of the little horn against the sanctuary stops.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Huh?
First of all the reason I said I don't think you believe it is that you said it is 2,300 years after the establishment of the little horn. If the little horn is the papacy, you have quite a few too many years there.

But then you said the cleansing was 2,300 years after the activity of the little horn.....no, after 2,300 mornings and evenings the activity of the little horn against the sanctuary stops.

Sorry tall, that is not true. This interpretation of yours was proven incorrect as already shown in the scriptures provided in linked posts below.

* Posts # 582 linked Click me
* Posts # 583 linked Click me

Did you wish to discuss them further? Happy to do so if you wish just let me know

Hope this helps.
 
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tall73

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Now your taking writings out of context again. The focus of this passage was the first vision and walking the narrow path of believing and following the Word of God with application to the 144,000 of Revelation 7:4 and the 2nd coming.

The passage you quote is referring to those who turn away from God's Word and lose sight of Jesus. Your tacking out a small section of a large vision and applying it to something not being discussed.

If anyone turns away from God's WORD to return to a life of sin, they will be judged for it.


No, she said the light behind them was the midnight cry, shining forward on the path. Some doubted that it was God who lead them there--on the path illuminated by the midnight cry. They denied the light--of the midnight cry.

In fact, she also said years later she still believed that there was a door shut in 1844 for those who rejected their 1844 experience:

I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels' messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness. And those who accepted it and received the Holy Spirit which attended the proclamation of the message from heaven, and who afterward renounced their faith and pronounced their experience a delusion, thereby rejected the Spirit of God, and it no longer pleaded with them.

Of course she made one exception to that last bit--William Miller himself. She said he was tired from all his labors and others influenced him so it was there fault that he didn't accept this new light they came up with.

But anyone else who realized Jesus did not come in 1843, or 1844, and therefore realized his message was not true--they were lost per Ellen White.




 
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LoveGodsWord

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No, she said the light behind them was the midnight cry. They doubt that God had led them out there and denied the light.

But she also said years later she still believed that there was a door shut in 1844 for those who rejected their 1844 experience:

I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels' messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness. And those who accepted it and received the Holy Spirit which attended the proclamation of the message from heaven, and who afterward renounced their faith and pronounced their experience a delusion, thereby rejected the Spirit of God, and it no longer pleaded with them.

Hello tall, as requested earlier you have your own thread for you misapplication of the SOP. This is between you and God. I wish to discuss scripture here and happy to do so. I am not interested in discussing the SOP. Did you have any scripture to share for your teachings? Seems you have run out.
 
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tall73

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Depends on the topic, context and point being applied and the application of the point in the scripture being referred to.


I already referenced the context--chapter 28 of the Great Controversy where she is discussing the IJ.

She quotes it regarding the IJ, and leaves off the first part that makes clear He reveals the motives of the heart at His coming.
 
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tall73

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I believe God did entrust these scriptures to Miller. Did Miller get the application and understandting of these scriptures correct? Absolutely not. Did God correct the understanding of these scriptures? Absolutely.


I guess you really have not read much Ellen White after all.

I saw that God was in the proclamation of the time in 1843. It was His design to arouse the people and bring them to a testing point, where they should decide for or against the truth

The time she is talking about is 1843. She says God's hand hid the mistake in the calculations so they would proclaim 1843. Then He removed His hand so they would preach 1844.

But God designed to prove them. His hand covered a mistake in the reckoning of the prophetic periods.
Early Writings


She says God covered a mistake in the reckoning of the prophetic periods. And then later took His hand away. She is referring to the zero-year error:

The hand of the Lord was removed from the figures, and the mistake was explained. They saw that the prophetic periods reached to 1844, and that the same evidence which they had presented to show that the prophetic periods closed in 1843, proved that they would terminate in 1844.


And on page 74 of Early Writings:

I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed.

The chart pointed to Jesus' return in 1843. That was the whole point of the chart.

In fact, here is the chart, you can see for yourself:

http://richkelsey.org/Miller's 1843 Chart.jpg





 
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tall73

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I do not see it that way to be honest. It seems you quoted EGW and misappied what was being said as her application was to the Heavenly Sanctuary and the NEW Covenant under the different ministrations Jesus has while you were applying what she was saying to the earthly.

She was comparing and stating directly what the type was and the fulfillment. So I pointed out what she said.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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No, she said the light behind them was the midnight cry, shining forward on the path. Some doubted that it was God who lead them there--on the path illuminated by the midnight cry. They denied the light--of the midnight cry.

In fact, she also said years later she still believed that there was a door shut in 1844 for those who rejected their 1844 experience:

I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels' messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness. And those who accepted it and received the Holy Spirit which attended the proclamation of the message from heaven, and who afterward renounced their faith and pronounced their experience a delusion, thereby rejected the Spirit of God, and it no longer pleaded with them.

Of course she made one exception to that last bit--William Miller himself. She said he was tired from all his labors and others influenced him so it was there fault that he didn't accept this new light they came up with.

But anyone else who realized Jesus did not come in 1843, or 1844, and therefore realized his message was not true--they were lost per Ellen White.

I just check and this is another application of the SOP taken out of context. Here let me provide the full context.

Early Statements

[Soon after the republication in 1882 of the three earliest E. G. White books, A Sketch of the Christian Experience and Views of Ellen G. White, A Supplement to Experience and Views, and Spiritual Gifts, vol. 1, all three of which today comprise Early Writings, certain questions were raised concerning the completeness of some of the articles and the significance of certain statements appearing here or in still earlier published articles. Mrs. White answered these questions in 1883 in the following statement. Reference is made to the teachings on the “shut door.” For another reference to the significance of the “shut door” see The Great Controversy, 429-432.]

Compilers.

My attention has recently been called to a sixteen-page pamphlet published by C, of Marion, Iowa, entitled Comparison of the Early Writings of Mrs. White With Later Publications. The writer states that portions of my earlier visions, as first printed, have been suppressed in the work recently published under the title Early Writings of Mrs. E. G. White, and he conjectures as a reason for such suppression that these passages teach doctrines now repudiated by us as a people.

He also charges us with willful deception in representing Early Writings as a complete republication of my earliest views, with only verbal changes from the original work.

Before I notice separately the passages which are said to have been omitted, it is proper that several facts be stated. When my earliest views were first published in pamphlet form, [Reference is here made to the 24-page pamphlet “A Word to the Little Flock,” published by James White in 1847, containing three Ellen G. White communications.—Compilers.] the edition was small, and was soon sold. This was in a few years followed by a larger book, The Christian Experience and Views of Mrs. E. G. White, printed in 1851, and containing much additional matter.

In our frequent change of location in the earlier history of the publishing work, and then in almost incessant travel as I have labored from Maine to Texas, from Michigan to California—and I have crossed the plains no less than seventeen times—I lost all trace of the first published works. When it was decided to publish Early Writings at Oakland last fall, we were obliged to send to Michigan to borrow a copy of Experience and Views. And in doing this we supposed that we had obtained an exact copy of the earliest visions as first published. This we reprinted, as stated in the preface to Early Writings, with only verbal changes from the original work.

And here I will pause to state that any of our people having in their possession a copy of any or all of my first views, as published prior to 1851, will do me a great favor if they will send them to me without delay. I promise to return the same as soon as a copy can be produced.
So far from desiring to withhold anything that I have ever published, I would feel great satisfaction in giving to the public every line of my writings that has ever been printed.

Testimonies Garbled by Eli Curtis

There is another fact that should be stated here. I am not responsible for all that has been printed as coming from me. About the time that my earliest visions were first published, several articles did appear purporting to have been written by me, and to relate what the Lord had shown me, but sanctioning doctrines which I did not believe. These were published in a paper edited by a Mr. Curtis. Of the name of the paper I am not certain. In the years of care and labor that have passed since then, some of these less important particulars have been forgotten, but the main points are still distinct in my mind.

This man took articles that came from my pen, and wholly transformed and distorted them, picking out a sentence here and there, without giving the connection, and then, after inserting his own ideas, he attached my name to them as if they came direct from me.

On seeing these articles, we wrote to him, expressing our surprise and disapprobation, and forbidding him thus to misconstrue my testimonies. He answered that he should publish what he pleased, that he knew the visions ought to say what he had published, and that if I had written them as the Lord gave them to me, they would have said these things. He asserted that if the visions have been given for the benefit of the church, he had a right to use them as he pleased.

Some of these sheets may still be in existence, and may be brought forward as coming from me, but I am not responsible for them. The articles given in Early Writings did pass under my eye; and as the edition of Experience and Views published in 1851 was the earliest which we possessed, and as we had no knowledge of anything additional in papers or pamphlets of earlier date, I am not responsible for the omissions which are said to exist.

The First Omission

The first quotation mentioned by C is from a pamphlet of twenty-four pages published in 1847, entitled A Word to the Little Flock. Here are the lines omitted in Experience and Views:

“It was just as impossible for them [those that gave up their faith in the ‘44 movement] to get on the path again and go to the city, as all the wicked world which God had rejected. They fell all the way along the path one after another.”

I will give the context, that the full force of the expressions may be clearly seen:

“While praying at the family altar, the Holy Ghost fell on me, and I seemed to be rising higher and higher, far above the dark world. I turned to look for the advent people in the world, but could not find them—when a voice said to me, ‘Look again, and look a little higher.’ At this I raised my eyes and saw a straight and narrow path, cast up high above the world. On this path the advent people were traveling to the city, which was at the farther end of the path. They had a bright light set up behind them at the first end of the path, which an angel told me was the midnight cry. This light shone all along the path, and gave light for their feet so they might not stumble. And if they kept their eyes fixed on Jesus, who was just before them, leading them to the city, they were safe. But soon some grew weary, and they said the city was a great way off, and they expected to have entered it before. Then Jesus would encourage them by raising His glorious right arm, and from His arm came a glorious light which waved over the advent band, and they shouted, Hallelujah! Others rashly denied the light behind them, and said that it was not God that had led them out so far. The light behind them went out, leaving their feet in perfect darkness, and they stumbled and got their eyes off the mark and lost sight of Jesus, and fell off the path down into the dark and wicked world below.”

Now follows the passage said to be in the original work, but not found in Experience and Views nor in Early Writings:

“It was just as impossible for them [those that gave up their faith in the ‘44 movement] to get on the path again and go to the city, as all the wicked world which God had rejected. They fell all the way along the path one after another.”

The “Shut Door” Defined

It is claimed that these expressions prove the shut-door doctrine, and that this is the reason of their omission in later editions. But in fact they teach only that which has been and is still held by us as a people, as I shall show.

For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.

I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

There was a shut door in Noah's day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah:

“My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3).

There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven.

There was a shut door in Christ's day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, “Your house is left unto you desolate” (Matthew 23:38).

Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John:

“These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth” (Revelation 3:7).

I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels’ messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness. And those who accepted it and received the Holy Spirit which attended the proclamation of the message from heaven, and who afterward renounced their faith and pronounced their experience a delusion, thereby rejected the Spirit of God, and it no longer pleaded with them.

Those who did not see the light, had not the guilt of its rejection. It was only the class who had despised the light from heaven that the Spirit of God could not reach. And this class included, as I have stated, both those who refused to accept the message when it was presented to them, and also those who, having received it, afterward renounced their faith. These might have a form of godliness, and profess to be followers of Christ; but having no living connection with God, they would be taken captive by the delusions of Satan. These two classes are brought to view in the vision—those who declared the light which they had followed a delusion, and the wicked of the world who, having rejected the light, had been rejected of God. No reference is made to those who had not seen the light, and therefore were not guilty of its rejection.

In order to prove that I believed and taught the shut-door doctrine, Mr. C gives a quotation from the Review of June 11, 1861, signed by nine of our prominent members. The quotation reads as follows:

“Our views of the work before us were then mostly vague and indefinite, some still retaining the idea adopted by the body of advent believers in 1844, with William Miller at their head, that our work for ‘the world’ was finished, and that the message was confined to those of the original advent faith. So firmly was this believed that one of our number was nearly refused the message, the individual presenting it having doubts of the possibility of his salvation because he was not in ‘the ‘44 move.’”

To this I need only to add, that in the same meeting in which it was urged that the message could not be given to this brother, a testimony was given me through vision to encourage him to hope in God and to give his heart fully to Jesus, which he did then and there.

to be continued
 
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LoveGodsWord

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An Unreasonable Conjecture

In another passage from the book A Word to the Little Flock, I speak of scenes upon the new earth, and state that I there saw holy men of old, “Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, Daniel and many like them.” Because I speak of having seen these men, our opponents conjecture that I then believed in the immortality of the soul and that having since changed my views upon this point, I found it necessary to suppress that passage. They are as near the truth here as in other conjectures.

In the year 1844 I accepted the doctrine we now hold, concerning the nonimmortality of the soul, as may be seen by reference to Life Sketches, pages 170, 171 [1880 edition. See also 1915 edition, 49; Testimonies 1:39, 40], and I have never, by voice or pen, advocated any other. Had we suppressed this passage on account of its teaching the immortality of the soul, we would have found it necessary to suppress other passages.

In relating my first vision, page 13 of Early Writings [1882 edition, present edition, page 17], I speak of having seen brethren who had but a short time previous fallen asleep in Jesus, and on page 14 [present edition, pages 18, 19] I state that I was shown a great company who had suffered martyrdom for their faith.

The immortality of the soul is no more taught in the “suppressed” passage than in the two last cited.

The fact in the case is, that in these visions I was carried forward to the time when the resurrected saints shall be gathered into the kingdom of God. In the same manner the judgment, the second coming of Christ, the establishment of the saints upon the new earth have been presented before me. Does anyone suppose that these scenes have yet transpired? My adversaries show the spirit by which they are actuated in thus accusing me of deception on the strength of a mere “conjecture.”

A Misquotation

In this quotation are also found the words, “I saw two long golden rods on which hung silver wires, and on the wires were glorious grapes.”

My opponents ridicule “that weak and childish expression of glorious grapes growing on silver wires, and these wires attached to golden rods.”

What motive impelled the writer of the above to misstate my words? I do not state that grapes were growing on silver wires. That which I beheld is described as it appeared to me. It is not to be supposed that grapes were attached to silver wires or golden rods, but that such was the appearance presented. Similar expressions are daily employed by every person in ordinary conversation. When we speak of golden fruit, we are not understood as declaring that the fruit is composed of that precious metal, but simply that it has the appearance of gold. The same rule applied to my words removes all excuse for misapprehension.

The Seal of God

Another “suppression” reads as follows: “Well, bless the Lord, brethren and sisters, it is an extra meeting for those that have the seal of the living God.”

There is nothing in this that we do not still hold. Reference to our published works will show our belief that the living righteous will receive the seal of God prior to the close of probation; also that these will enjoy special honors in the kingdom of God.

Renouncing the Sabbath

The following passage is said to be omitted from the vision related on pages 25-28 [pages 32-35, present edition] of Early Writings:

“And if one believed, and kept the Sabbath, and received the blessing attending it, and then gave it up, and broke the holy commandment, they would shut the gates of the Holy City against themselves, as sure as there was a God that rules in heaven above.”
Those who have clearly seen and fully accepted the truth upon the fourth commandment, and have received the blessing attending obedience, but have since renounced their faith, and dared to violate the law of God, will find, if they persist in this path of disobedience, the gates of the city of God closed against them.

“Time Nearly Finished”

A statement published in 1851 in Experience and Views, and found on page 49 [page 58, present edition] of Early Writings is quoted as proving my testimonies false: “I saw that the time for Jesus to be in the most holy place was nearly finished, and that time can last but a very little longer.”

As the subject was presented before me, the period of Christ's ministration seemed almost accomplished. Am I accused of falsehood because time has continued longer than my testimony seemed to indicate? How is it with the testimonies of Christ and His disciples? Were they deceived?

Paul writes to the Corinthians:

“But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; and they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not” (1 Corinthians 7:29, 30).

Again, in his epistle to the Romans, he says:

“The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light” (Romans 13:12).

And from Patmos, Christ speaks to us by the beloved John:

“Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand” (Revelation 1:3). “The Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Behold, I come quickly; blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book” (Revelation 22:6, 7).

The angels of God in their messages to men represent time as very short. Thus it has always been presented to me. It is true that time has continued longer than we expected in the early days of this message. Our Saviour did not appear as soon as we hoped. But has the word of the Lord failed? Never! It should be remembered that the promises and threatenings of God are alike conditional.

God had committed to His people a work to be accomplished on earth. The third angel's message was to be given, the minds of believers were to be directed to the heavenly sanctuary, where Christ had entered to make atonement for His people. The Sabbath reform was to be carried forward. The breach in the law of God must be made up. The message must be proclaimed with a loud voice, that all the inhabitants of earth might receive the warning. The people of God must purify their souls through obedience to the truth, and be prepared to stand without fault before Him at His coming.

Had Adventists, after the great disappointment in 1844, held fast their faith, and followed on unitedly in the opening providence of God, receiving the message of the third angel and in the power of the Holy Spirit proclaiming it to the world, they would have seen the salvation of God, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts, the work would have been completed, and Christ would have come ere this to receive His people to their reward.

But in the period of doubt and uncertainty that followed the disappointment, many of the advent believers yielded their faith. Dissensions and divisions came in. The majority opposed with voice and pen the few who, following in the providence of God, received the Sabbath reform and began to proclaim the third angel's message. Many who should have devoted their time and talents to the one purpose of sounding warning to the world, were absorbed in opposing the Sabbath truth, and in turn, the labor of its advocates was necessarily spent in answering these opponents and defending the truth. Thus the work was hindered, and the world was left in darkness. Had the whole Adventist body united upon the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, how widely different would have been our history!

It was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be thus delayed. God did not design that His people, Israel, should wander forty years in the wilderness. He promised to lead them directly to the land of Canaan, and establish them there a holy, healthy, happy people. But those to whom it was first preached, went not in “because of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:19). Their hearts were filled with murmuring, rebellion, and hatred, and He could not fulfill His covenant with them.

For forty years did unbelief, murmuring, and rebellion shut out ancient Israel from the land of Canaan. The same sins have delayed the entrance of modern Israel into the heavenly Canaan. In neither case were the promises of God at fault. It is the unbelief, the worldliness, unconsecration, and strife among the Lord's professed people that have kept us in this world of sin and sorrow so many years.

There are two other passages said to be found in my first book, but not given in my later writings. Concerning these I shall only say, when I can obtain a book containing them, so that I can be assured of the correctness of the quotations and can see for myself their connection, I shall be prepared to speak understandingly in regard to them.

Last-Day Scoffers

From the beginning of my work, I have been pursued by hatred, reproach, and falsehood. Base imputations and slanderous reports have been greedily gathered up and widely circulated by the rebellious, the formalist, and the fanatic. There are ministers of the so-called orthodox churches traveling from place to place to war against Seventh-day Adventists, and they make Mrs. White their textbook. The scoffers of the last days are led on by these ministers professing to be God's watchmen.

The unbelieving world, the ministers of the fallen churches, and the first-day Adventists are united in the work of assailing Mrs. White. This warfare has been kept up for nearly forty years, but I have not felt at liberty even to notice their vile speeches, reproaches, and insinuations. And I would not now depart from this custom, were it not that some honest souls may be misled by the enemies of the truth who are so exultantly declaring me a deceiver. In the hope of helping the minds of the honest, I make the statements that I do.

I do not expect to reach those who, having seen the light of truth, refuse to heed it, those who have given themselves up to prejudice, and entrenched their souls in unbelief.

Jesus, the Majesty of heaven, He who was equal with God, was in the world thirty-three years, and yet there were but few who acknowledged His divine character. And can I, who am so weak, so unworthy, a frail creature of humanity, expect greater success than was enjoyed by the Saviour of the world?

When I first gave myself to this work, to go when God should bid me, to speak the words which He should give me for the people, I knew that I should receive opposition, reproach, persecution. I have not been disappointed. Had I depended on human applause, I would long ago have become discouraged. But I looked to Jesus, and saw that He who was without a fault was assailed by slanderous tongues. Those who made high pretensions to godliness followed as spies upon the Saviour's course, and made every exertion in their power to hedge up His way. But although He was all-powerful, He did not visit His adversaries as their sins deserved. He might have launched forth against them the bolts of His vengeance, but He did not. He administered scathing rebukes for their hypocrisy and corruption, and when His message was rejected and His life threatened, He quietly passed to another place to speak the words of life. I have tried, in my weakness, to follow the example of my Saviour.

to be continued..
 
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tall73

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The heavenly applicaion of the day of atonement and the cleansing of the heavenly Sanctuary is for the removal of all the sins of God's people like in the type of Leviticus 16.

We are in the NEW Covenant now not the OLD Covenant.



Sorry tall, not at all the wrong cleansing is thinking Jesus needs to take all the furniture out of the Heavenly Sanctuary and wash it in a river somewhere :).

The cleansing of the Sanctuary and the day of atonement has always only been for the removal of SIN caused by God's people as shown in Leviticus 16.

Hope this is helpful.

Of course the Day of Atonement cleansing has. And that is why when you say we are both talking about it being from the cleansing of the activity of the little horn--those are not the same.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Enmity Against Advocates of Truth

How eagerly the Pharisees sought to prove Christ a deceiver! How they watched His every word, seeking to misrepresent and misinterpret all His sayings! Pride and prejudice and passion closed every avenue of the soul against the testimony of the Son of God. When He plainly rebuked their iniquity and declared that their works proved them to be the children of Satan, they angrily flung back the accusation, saying, “Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?”

All the arguments urged against Christ were founded in falsehood. So was it in the case of Stephen, and of Paul. But the weakest and most unreliable statements made on the wrong side had an influence, because there were so many whose hearts were unsanctified, who desired those statements to be true. Such are ever eager to fasten upon any supposed error or mistake in those who speak to them the unpalatable truth.

It should not surprise us when evil conjectures are greedily seized upon as undoubted facts by those who have an appetite for falsehood. The opposers of Christ were again and again confounded and put to silence by the wisdom of His words; yet they still eagerly listened to every rumor, and found some pretext to ply Him again with opposing questions. They were determined not to abandon their purpose. They well knew that if Jesus should continue His work, many would believe on Him, and the scribes and Pharisees would lose their power with the people. Hence they were ready to stoop to any base or contemptible measure to accomplish their malicious intentions against Him. They hated the Herodians, yet they joined these inveterate enemies in order to invent some plan to rid the earth of Christ.

Such was the spirit with which the Son of God was met by those whom He came to save. Can any who are seeking to obey God, and to bear to the world the message of His truth, expect a more favorable reception than was granted Christ?

I have no ill will toward those who are seeking to make of none effect the message which God has given to reprove, warn, and encourage His people. But as the ambassador of Christ, I must stand in defense of the truth. Who are those that so zealously array themselves against me? Are they the pure and holy children of faith? Have they been born again? Are they partakers of the divine nature? Do they love Jesus, and manifest His spirit of meekness and humility? “By their fruits ye shall know them” (Matthew 7:20). Do they resemble the early disciples, or those cunning scribes and Pharisees who were constantly watching to entrap Christ in His words? Notice the sharp practice of those ancient opposers of the faith—how lawyers, priests, scribes, and rulers combined to find something against Him who was the light of the world.

And why were they so intent upon condemning Christ? They did not love His doctrines and precepts, and they were displeased as they saw the attention of the people turned to Him and away from their former leaders.

Human nature is human nature still. Let not those who seek to hedge up my way and destroy the influence of my words, deceive themselves with the belief that they are doing God service. They are serving another master, and they will be rewarded according to their work.

Rebellion will exist as long as Satan exists. Those who are actuated by his spirit will not discern the spirit of God or listen to its voice until the mandate shall go forth, “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still” (Revelation 22:11). I expect to encounter the malice of those who despise the light which God has been pleased to give me.

Sufficient Evidence for the Honest in Heart

It is God's plan to give sufficient evidence of the divine character of His work to convince all who honestly desire to know the truth. But He never removes all opportunity for doubt. All who desire to question and cavil will find occasion.

I pity those who have set their feet in the path of doubt and unbelief. I would gladly help them if I could, but the experience of the past gives me little hope that they will ever come to the light. No amount of evidence will convince men of the truth so long as they are unwilling to yield their pride, subdue their carnal nature, and become learners in the school of Christ.

Self-will and pride of opinion lead many to reject the light from heaven They cling to pet ideas, fanciful interpretations of Scripture, and dangerous heresies; and if a testimony is borne to correct these errors, they will, like many in Christ's day, go away displeased.

It matters not how blameless the character and life of those who speak to the people the words of God; this procures for them no credit. And why? Because they tell the people the truth. This, brethren, is my offense. But if a false report is circulated, if by some inference or conjecture an imputation is cast upon the character of Christ's ambassador, with what absurd credulity is it received! How many are ready to magnify and spread the slander! Such are revealing their real character. “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

Calumny and reproach will be the recompense of those who stand for the truth as it is in Jesus. “All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution” (2 Timothy 3:12). Those who bear a plain testimony against sin will as surely be hated as was the Master who gave them this work to do in His name. Like Christ, they will be called the enemies of the church and of religion, and the more earnest and true their efforts to honor God, the more bitter will be the enmity of the ungodly and hypocritical. But we should not be discouraged when thus treated.

I Shall Go Forward With My Work

We may be called “weak and foolish,” enthusiastic, even insane. It may be said of us as it was of Christ, “He hath a devil” (John 10:20). But the work which the Master has given us to do is our work still. We must direct minds to Jesus, not seeking praise or honor of men, but committing ourselves to Him who judgeth righteously. He knows how to help those who while following in His steps suffer in a limited degree the reproach He bore. He was tempted in all points like as we are, that He might know how to succor those who should be tempted.

Whatever wrong construction may be placed upon my testimony by those who profess righteousness, yet know not God, I shall in humility go forward with my work. I will speak the words which God gives me to speak in encouragement, reproof, and warning. There remains but a little remnant of my life on earth. The work that my Father hath given me, I will, by His grace, perform with fidelity, knowing that all my deeds must pass the scrutiny of Jehovah.—Manuscript 4, 1883.

[See The Great Controversy, 426-432, for a fuller presentation of the “Shut Door.”]
Battle Creek, Michigan
August 24, 1874

Dear Brother Loughborough,
I hereby testify in the fear of God that the charges of Miles Grant, of Mrs. Burdick, and others published in the Crisis are not true. The statements in reference to my course in forty-four are false.
With my brethren and sisters, after the time passed in forty-four I did believe no more sinners would be converted. But I never had a vision that no more sinners would be converted. And am clear and free to state no one has ever heard me say or has read from my pen statements which will justify them in the charges they have made against me upon this point.

It was on my first journey east to relate my visions that the precious light in regard to the heavenly sanctuary was opened before me and I was shown the open and shut door. We believed that the Lord was soon to come in the clouds of heaven. I was shown that there was a great work to be done in the world for those who had not had the light and rejected it. Our brethren could not understand this with our faith in the immediate appearing of Christ. Some accused me of saying that my Lord delayeth His coming, especially the fanatical ones. I saw that in ‘44 God had opened a door and no man could shut it, and shut a door and no man could open it. Those who rejected the light which was brought to the world by the message of the second angel went into darkness, and how great was that darkness.

I never have stated or written that the world was doomed or damned. I never have under any circumstances used this language to any one, however sinful. I have ever had messages of reproof for those who used these harsh expressions.—Letter 2, 1874.

............

CONCLUSION: Woops.. seems Context matters my friend. You are posting SOP out of context. This is sad for you.

Hope this helps.

.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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She was comparing and stating directly what the type was and the fulfillment. So I pointed out what she said.

Sorry tall, no you didn't I am happy to repost what you said earlier. You applied a SOP quotation that was talking about the work of the heavenly Sanctuary and applied it to the earthly not considering the ministration of the role of Jesus in the Heavenly as God, Priest and King. This is a wrong application of the scriptures which lead you to an incorrect interpreation of the SOP.
 
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tall73

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I just check and this is another application of the SOP taken out of context. Here let me provide the full context.

Early Statements

It is not out of context at all. Did you even read the defense you posted? She even referenced the same quote I gave you in the post you are replying to.

The defense you posted was that she continued holding the shut door for ALL people for some time. Folks debate that, but that was not my claim.

Her clarification was exactly what I posted--she still holds it for those in 1844 who rejected their experience.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It is not out of context at all. Did you even read the defense you posted? She even referenced the same quote I gave you in the post you are replying to.

The defense you posted was that she continued holding the shut door for ALL people for some time. Folks debate that, but that was not my claim.

Her clarification was exactly what I posted--she still holds it for those in 1844 who rejected their experience.

Now tall, you did not read those posts did you? You applied a misapplied the 1st vision to say something it was not. The other statements are self explanatory. Showing context with SOP clearly stating what was mean't in those statements. They are not the same as your application of them.
 
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tall73

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You did not read it did you?


Yes, I read the first part, then you posted the second.

I have read them before as well.

The defense you posted was against the claim that she held the shut door for years after 1844.

Her response is that she held it for a time, and that she still holds it in regards to 1844 for those who rejected the message. The very quote I put in there before.
 
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tall73

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Sorry tall, not at all the wrong cleansing is thinking Jesus needs to take all the furniture out of the Heavenly Sanctuary and wash it in a river somewhere :).

No, the cleansing would be what the questions asks--when the little horn stops its defiling activities, no longer tramples etc.

And that didn't happen in 1844.
 
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yet the prophecy of Daniel 8 is 2300 years after the establishment of the little Horn.

You just said it again. Are you really not getting it?

How many years has the papacy been around? Hint, he wasn't around before Jesus' came to earth.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Yes, I read the first part, then you posted the second.

I have read them before as well.

The defense you posted was against the claim that she held the shut door for years after 1844.

Her response is that she held it for a time, and that she still holds it in regards to 1844 for those who rejected the message. The very quote I put in there before.

Of course I put the quote up. I also provided the context to what was written around the quote. It was not what you were suggesting it said. It was a view held earlier that for a time as you started but if you read what was posted above she says she still holds the view of the shut door but not as others have applied it to here. Here let me provide it for you...

I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

There was a shut door in Noah's day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah:

“My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3).

There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven.

There was a shut door in Christ's day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, “Your house is left unto you desolate” (Matthew 23:38).

Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John:

“These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth” (Revelation 3:7).

Hope this helps.
 
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