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GOD'S LAW AND JUDGEMENT TIME - ARE YOU READY?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, May 10, 2018.

  1. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    It is not just the sanctuary cleansed of sin in the Day of Atonement. It is the sanctuary, the people, everything.

    For on that day the priest shall make i]">[i]atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the Lord. 31 It is a sabbath of solemn rest for you, and you shall afflict your souls. It is a statute forever. 32 And the priest, who is anointed and consecrated to minister as priest in his father’s place, shall make atonement, and put on the linen clothes, the holy garments; 33 then he shall make j]">[j]atonement for k]">[k]the Holy Sanctuary, and he shall make atonement for the tabernacle of meeting and for the altar, and he shall make atonement for the priests and for all the people of the assembly. 34 This shall be an everlasting statute for you, to make atonement for the children of Israel, for all their sins, once a year.” And he did as the Lord commanded Moses.


    And the reason is that they are a sinful people. It is a picture of corporate forgiveness.

    And the sanctuary lives in the midst of this sinful people. So it is also cleansed.

    16 So he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions, for all their sins; and so he shall do for the tabernacle of meeting which remains among them in the midst of their uncleanness.




    As to the scapegoat, that is not explained in the New Testament. So I would be speculating. But that part of the type happens after the high priest leaves the sanctuary. And it appears to relate to the removal of sin from the world.

    The scapegoat is another aspect of Jesus' work. Both the scapegoat and the Lord's goat are of the same type. A lot is used to determine which is which. So both would be without blemish.

    7 He shall take the two goats and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. 8 Then Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats: one lot for the Lord and the other lot for the scapegoat. 9 And Aaron shall bring the goat on which the Lord’s lot fell, and offer it as a sin offering. 10 But the goat on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make atonement upon it, and to let it go as the scapegoat into the wilderness.


    Both are pictures of atonement, and aspects of Christ's work.


     
  2. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Agreed :oldthumbsup: This is what I have been saying to you.

    But you have been highlighting it's application to the people and neglect the cleansing of the Sanctuary and removal of sin from the presence of God by the scapegoat. That is why I highlighted Leviticus 16.

    This is the cleansing of the Sanctuary and the removal of sin from the presence of God and is relavant to the day of Atonement and what makes it different to the daily and relevant to Daniel 8:13-14.

    Do you see what I am highlighing now in relation to the OLD Covenant Sanctuary and how it relates to the new and Daniel 8?

    Hope this helps
     
  3. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    There is no mix up. You say you agree blood cleanses. But then you do not indicate that it cleanses in the sin offering. You indicate it transfers.

    But the text says everything it touches is made holy. It says it makes atonement.

    The sin offering is one person's confession of a single sin.

    Now you say why have a Day of Atonement when people are atoned for individually? Because they are all pictures to illustrate to the people the various aspects of the work of Christ:

    10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

    2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

    3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

    4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

    The sin offering illustrates how we individually confess a particular sin, and that another must pay for it. The person would kill the animal. Then the priest would minister the blood. This was a lesson for each person about the cost of each of their sins.

    And the Day of Atonement is an illustration of what Jesus did--make one corporate provision for all sins, for all time.

    They are different lessons, all talking about the one sacrifice of Christ.
     
  4. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    I didn't miss that Jesus judges. But we appear before the judgement seat, bow the knee, confess, etc. This is when He comes, after He already left the sanctuary.
     
  5. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    And of course....Daniel 7 does not show the Day of Atonement, so no conflict at all.



    Can you explain why we are going to the mercy seat at all if Jesus is not doing Most Holy Place ministry?

    We go to Jesus at time of need. This does not mean there is not a judgment at Jesus' coming. It means that Jesus made provision for all sin immediately in the first century, and now we confess our sins to Him.

    He judges us at His coming.
     
  6. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Hebrews 9:23-25 spells out the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary. So that is covered in the NT. The scapegoat is not explicitly referenced. You can say what you think it means, and find parallels in Daniel and Revelation, but it doesn't mention the scapegoat.
     
  7. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    And because of Hebrews 9:23-25 they all already knew that Jesus ministered His sacrifice before the Father in the first century.
     
  8. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Please explain your view of Hebrews 9:23-25. You have twice now said Hebrews speaks of the Day of Atonement.

    This is the central text in the NT that explains the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary. So what does it mean?
     
  9. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Once again, Hebrews 1:3 shows purification for all sins. Purification....cleansing.

    Explain why it doesn't mean what it says.
     
  10. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Incorrect. It says "until when". The activity of the little horn should stop at the end of the 2,300 days. It did not. The papacy and confession are still going strong.
     
  11. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Actually there are

    Multiple books of works:
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:

    And then a singular book of life:

    and another book was opened, which is the book of life

    The book of life is not mentioned in Daniel 7

     
  12. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Unless you think the IJ started in Peter's day that text is not helping you.
     
  13. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    I think you are missing the point. Jesus already knows who He is coming for. The cases were never in doubt. But we still appear before Him.

    And we still bow the knee, give an account, confess, etc.
     
  14. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    1 TIMOTHY 5:24, Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.


    This indicates that some men's sins are obvious, and are open to being known even before the judgment. But some men's follow after to the judgment, and are not known until then.

    It doesn't say anything about the righteous being judged first. In this case both have their sins going to the judgment, just one runs ahead and is obvious because of their actions.




    1 TIMOTHY 5:25 , Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.

    This is the flip-side of that. Some peoples good works are manifest to all before hand. But the ones that are not now manifest to everyone will not stay hidden at the judgment.

    Again this is not about timeing of righteous being judged first, and then the wicked.

    Some peoples sins are obvious ahead of time. Some are only revealed at the judgment.

    Some people's good deeds are obvious ahead of time. Some are only revealed in the judgment
     
  15. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    You need to explain what you have admitted is Day of Atonement language in Hebrews 9:23-25.

    The scapegoat happens after He leaves the sanctuary, so that has not happened yet.
     
  16. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    The word for books is plural in Rev. 20...then there is another book, the book of life.
     
  17. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    It says He is bringing His reward. He said He goes to prepare a place. And He already knows His own. Why is that an issue?
     
  18. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    I did read it, but we are cross posting, responding to one while the other is responding.

    The scapegoat portion I do not see fulfilled yet. It doesn't happen until the priest leaves the sanctuary.

    But you need to address Hebrews 9:23-25. Because that part already happened. And it explains the cleansing of the sanctuary-- only place in the NT it is spelled out specifically.
     
  19. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    We are still cross posting.

    But the cleansing of the sanctuary is explained in Hebrews 9:23-25. You have said you agree this talks about the Day of Atonement. So what does it mean?

    This is the central issue of the whole debate.
     
  20. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Jesus' sacrifice was once for all, and we agree on that.

    However, another aspect of the Day of Atonement was also once for all.

    11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Holy Places once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

    Jesus' entry was once for all. The entry was a key part of the Day of Atonement. And this is entry into the second compartment, because it is entry through, or by means of, blood (διὰ with genitive). The priest would go into the first compartment without requiring blood. But blood was required to enter into the second:


    Hebrews 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

    This description of the earthly is paralleled by Jesus' action in the fulfillment:

    11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Holy Places once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.



    So the once for all sacrifice already happened, and the once for all entry already happened. Both of these are key aspects of the Day of Atonement, and happened once for all in the first century.
     
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