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GOD'S LAW AND JUDGEMENT TIME - ARE YOU READY?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, May 10, 2018.

  1. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Hm.....
     
  2. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    I think you are missing the point made earlier and that is yes Jesus is our sacrifice, yes Jesus is our great high priest ministering on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary. Yes it is God that does the investigative judgment (not for his benefit but for heavens). What you are missing here is that yes it is God that does the judgment but Jesus is also God, Man, Priest and sacrifice. Judgment is God's work. Jesus is also God (John 1:1-3; 14).

    No it isn't. This has already been discussed in Hebrews 8 and Hebrews 9. The reason that Jesus can appear in God's presenece is because he is the sinless sacrifice. This is not talking about the cleansing of the Sanctuary and God's Juddgment which once again we are told in scripture does not take place until after the judgment of the little horn (Daniel 7:10; Daniel 8:13-14). If what you were saying is correct the little Horn would already be judged and the kingdom already given to God's people which is a reference to judgments given and the 2nd coming. Obviously this has not taken place so your application of the scriptures here teaching the Sanctuary is already cleansed is not correct.

    Access to the throne of grace is conditonal according to God's WORD as is acess to the mercy seat. The mercy seat was directly on top of the Ark of the Covenant that held the 10 Commandments. The scriptures tell us the grace is given for obedience to the faith and the God's mercy is only given to those who believe and follow his WORD (Romans 1:5; 16:26; Exodus 20:6)

    God's 10 Commandments were the foundation of the mercy seat.

    EXODUS 25:21 And you shall put the mercy seat above on the ark; and in the ark you shall put the testimony that I shall give you.

    Mercy is only given to those who by faith believe God's WORD and have repented from their sins and have been forgiven and chosen to follow God's Word. These are the condtions of Mercy..

    EXODUS 20:6 And showing mercy to thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

    Which is why Jesus says...

    JOHN 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.

    and again..

    JOHN 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    God's mercy is conditional and this is what is determined in the investigative Judgment and the removal of sin from the presenese of God at the great day of atonement in the Heavenly Sanctuary which the scriptures talk about in Daniel 7:10 and Daniel 8:13-14. This takes place after the 2300 day/year prophecy of Daniel 8:13-14.

    Much of the shadow laws in ordinances are not spelled out in the NT but the books of DANIEL and REVELATIONS tell the story especially when linked to an understanding of the annual feasts of Leviticus 26 and 23.

    Not really for those living during this time we are told many are called but few are chosen. All will be judged on what they know, not what they do not know (James 4:17)

    .
     
  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    I do not think you understood my posts here. I have never said the book of Hebrews does not talk about the day of atonement. I disagreed however that your reference to Hebrews 1:3 was a reference to the completed day of atoenement by providing scriptures from Hebrews 8 and Hebrews 9 showing that Christs priesthood is different from the earlthy.
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Well this is twisiting what I have posted and never said. I already said in previous response posts to you that the scripture in Hebrews 1:3 is in reference to Christs complete sacrifice then provided scriptures from Hebrews 8 and Hebrews 9 to show his ministration and why he can sit in the presence of God. This is different to the earthly Levitical order of sinful man of which the earthly was only a copy. Mankind is sinful. Jesus was not.
     
  5. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    I already told you. Ellen White said his message was from God.

    Haven't you read Early Writings?
     
  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    This post shows a lack of understanding of the purpose of the day of atonement. The daily ministration of the Sanctuary was for provision of sin committed on a day to day basis. The yearly day of atonement was for the removal of sin from the presence of God only done once a year. You should know this from your backgournd already. Happy to provide the scriptures if you need them.
     
  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello tall, there is no confusion here, I have already stated many times already that I agree that Christs sacrifice is once and for all and covers all sin both now and into the future for forgiveness of sin. What I am disagreeing is your application that the day of atonement has already been completed. The scriptures in Daniel 8 show that it clearly has not at the little horn is still continuing and the judgement takes place after the activities of the little horn as decribed in Daniel 7 and Daniel 8.
     
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Ineed so then you must agree that if the defilement is removed, the Sanctuary and the daily restored as well as God's truth at the end of the 2300 day/years the day of atonement to which refers to the cleansing of the Sanctuary has not taken place. Also the judgement is not completed because the little horn is still ative. Your interpretation of the above disagrees with the scriptures on Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 on many levels.

    We are told in DANIEL 7:10 that the books of the judgment were opened. We are told in other scriptures what those books are. One of them is the book of life, the other the book of remembrance (Rev 3:5; 8; 17:8; 20:12-13; 15; Mal 3:16). There is no need to guess what the books of the judgment are referring to here.

    Of course Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 show the judgement of God's people. This is why it is referring to the restoration of the Sanctuary and the daily sacrifice. However, reference is to the Heavenly Sanctuary not the earthly. What was the purpose and work of the Sanctuary? It is for the cleansing of sin from God's people and also the removal of sin from God's presence. If it is restored then it's purpose continues. This takes place according to God's Word after the 2300 day/year prophecy. This is why the books are opened to see who stays in the book of life and who is blotted out at the time of the judgement (Daniel 7:10; 8:14).

    My question was not in relation to the earthly Sanctuary and daily remission of sin as the context we are discussing is the Heavenly is the judgment and the cleasning of the Sanctuary. This day of atonement is different to the daily. It was a time for repentance and prayer, seeking God and affliction of soul (Leviticus 23:24-32). This was for the removal of sin from the presence of God.

    The soul searching of God's people during this time was to determine if their sins confessed throughout the year and brought into the Sanctuary through blood sacrifice was indeed repented of and forsaken before being finally removed from the Sanctuary to the scapegoats (Leviticus 16). This is a different process to the daily forgiveness of sin through blood sacrifice. Those who did not partake of this process God

    So what you have written here is not relevant to the day of atonement the scriptures talk about which is for the judgment of God's people. Those who did not partake of this service were cut off from God's people. Some were put to death. This is symbolic of the work of the Heavenly Sanctuary after its restoration which Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 point to after the establishment of the little horn.

    Hope this helps.
     
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    The day of atonement is indeed for the cleansing of all God's people collectively. Perhaps it may help to ask a question here.

    What is the difference then between the daily sacrifice for sin when God's people received forgiveness individually through blood sacrifice and the day of atonement?

    If God's people already received forgiveness individually doesn't that (in your view) mean they have received God's forgiveness collectively?

    This is were you are running into trouble. The day of Atonement was for the removal of sin from the presence of God and the cleasning of the Sanctuary which is a direct reference to Daniel 8:13-14.

    No it is not as this does not take place until after the judgement and the cleansing of the Sanctuary (Daniel 7:8-14; Daniel 8:13-14)

    Not at all. This only means that the judgment is not completed and is still going on in Heaven according to the scriptures. The judgments to the little horn are only applied after the judgment has been completed. Your comments above are not relevant to the scriptures being discussed. Dominion of the little horn takes place after the judgement. Not while the judgment is still in progress.

    Hope this helps..


    .
     
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    We are told in DANIEL 7:10 that the books of the judgment were opened. We are told in other scriptures what those books are. One of them is the book of life, the other the book of remembrance (Rev 3:5; 8; 17:8; 20:12-13; 15; Mal 3:16).

    There is no need to guess what the books of the judgment are referring to here. God's WORD tell us what books are used in the judgment.
     
  11. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    The prominent horn was not broken off then. It was broken off during Alexander's day. And a power that conquers one of the four is not coming out of one of the four.
     
  12. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    I did not agree that the scripture here is only in reference to persecution in Peter's day did I?
     
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    I think your missing the point of the scriptures posted here. The cases of the righteous are already decided before the 2nd Coming. I have not read the book of life into Daniel 7 at all. It is God's word that tells us what the books of the Judgment are. There is no need to be confused here as the scriptures make it very clear what books are used in the judgment (Rev 3:5; 8; 17:8; 20:12-13; 15; Mal 3:16).
     
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Of course it can we are talking about the judgment and the heavenly Sanctuary after the 2300 day/year prophecy of Daniel 8:13-14.
     
  15. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Not really, judgment is delivered at the 2nd coming * Revelations 22:12. The investigative judgement takes place before the 2nd coming (Daniel 7:10; 8:13-14)

    Agreed :oldthumbsup:

    If your saying here that the blood sacrifice has been provided for fallen mankind for all sin, then yes we are in agreement. If your saying that the Day of atonement has been completed then no God's Word does not teach this. The sacrifice as been provided already by Jesus for all sin. This is what we agree on here.

    However, no the day of atonement and Christ's duties in the heavenly Sanctuary as our great high priest for the cleansing of the Sanctuary and the removal of sin from the presence of God has not been completed. This is what Leviticus 16; 23 and Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 and Revelations talk about with the timing of the cleansing of the Sanctuary and the Heavenly judgement.

    No Jesus was not a sinner and not of the Levitical priesthood. His acceptance into the presence of God is because he is sinless. This was highlighted already by sharing the scriptures earlier in Hebrews 8 and Hebrews 9. Hebrews 1:3 has nothing to do with the great day of atonement as outlined in Leviticus for the cleansing of the Sanctuary accept the Christ is both our sacrifice for sin and our great high priest.
     
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    The books open in the judgment are the book of life and the book of rememberance (deeds and acts). There are is more then one book as the Hebrew word used here is plural.
     
  17. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    No not at all. You are saying that the books referred to in the judgment referred to is the book of records.

    This application cannot be true by itself because the application to scripture in the Hebrew word for book here is 5609. סְפַר c̨ephar (Chald.), sef-ar´; from a root corresp. to 5608; a book:—book, roll. (masculine referring to God's ownership) plural more than one book.

    This is a plural meaning of God's books used in the judgement (context). That is why the the scriptures were provided earlier to show what are God's books used in the judgement. These are 1. God's book of life and 2. God's book of remembrance (Rev 3:5; 8; 17:8; 20:12-13; 15; Mal 3:16).

    Can you see here that your application is not correct? The Hebrew word here is plural meaning more then one book is used. A word study on the scriptures show that there are only two books used in the judgement which include the book of life and the book of remembrance (deeds; acts). Together these are the books used in the judgment that are opened in Daniel 7:10.

    Hope this helps...
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Sorry tall,

    I think you missed the point here again. Revelations 20:11-12 is saying that God's reward is with him at the 2nd coming for his people. For God's rewards to be with him the for the Judment is completed before the 2nd coming.

    God's judgment is before completed before the 2nd coming when he proclaims...

    REVELATION 22:11-12 [11], He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. [12], And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    Don't know if it gets much clearer then that.
     
  19. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    No, I am saying the sin offering does not transfer sin. The text says as plain as day that whatever it touches becomes holy.

    The sin offerings were a picture of personal confession for individual sins.

    The Day of Atonement is a picture of corporate cleansing of the people, the sanctuary, etc.

    Those are not the same. But Jesus fulfilled all of it with His one death, and presentation.

     
  20. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Seems you are not reading the posts I have provided for you. I agree with the above what you are not seeing however is that the day of atonement is also for the removal of sin from the presence of God with the scapegoats and also the cleansing of the Sanctuary from the defilement of the sins from God's people. This is why Leviticus 16 was posted and highlighted.
     
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