GOD'S LAW (10 commandments) ARE FOREVER!

[listed]

Hi Listed,
It may be best if we just be friends and agree to disagree as it seems you are getting upset which is not what I was wanting to achieve by sharing scripture with you. Seems like we are just going around in circles. Wish you all the best as you seek Jesus through His Word.

In Christ Always

Work and family must not be to important as you continued to post for more than an hour after saying you must go.

Here again you simply dismiss me. Are you really inviting me to quit posting?

 

[listed]

Hi Bob, good question. It is interesting if you look at what the Torah actually is. I did not really understand what the word Torah was referring to for some time when people were talking about it.

So what is the Torah?

"Torah" in Hebrew also called "Pentateuch from the Greek" is the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). These are also called the book of Moses as they were written by Moses. So everyone that professed to be Christian or Jew believes in the Torah (first five books of the bible written by Moses) as these books are included in the bible and help make up God's Word.

The 5 books of Moses give the history of the origin of creation and the fall of mankind and an introduction to God's plan of salvation from sin through the ceremonial laws of Moses (eg. Levitical ceremonial laws of burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin, the priesthood, the Sanctuary services and annual festivals). So to me the Torah does indeed describe the plan of salvation from sin and points to Jesus as the Saviour of the world and were shadows of things to come. (Leviticus 1; 3-12; 14-17; 22-23; Number 6-8; 15; 28-29; Deut 12; 33; Ex 25:8; John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6;Colossians 2:14;17; Hebrews 8:1-5; 6-13; Hebrews 10:1-19; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29)

People in the Old Covenant were saved in the exact same way that we are saved in the New and that has always been by faith. (forgive me if you have already seen these in another thread)

Gal 3:2,
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:6,
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Gal 3:7,
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Gal 3:8,
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Gal 3:9,
So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Gal 3:14,
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:16,
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:17,
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Hab 2:4,
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Rom 4:16,
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom 4:17,
As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Rom 4:18,
Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

Rom 4:19,
And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:

Rom 4:20,
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

Rom 4:21,
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Rom 4:22,
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Heb 11:4,
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Heb 11:5,
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Heb 11:7,
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Heb 11:8,
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Heb 11:9,
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Heb 11:10,
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Heb 11:11,
Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Heb 11:17,
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Heb 11:18,
Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

Heb 11:19,
Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Heb 11:20,
By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

Heb 11:21,
By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

Heb 11:22,
By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

Heb 11:23,
By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

Heb 11:24,
By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

Heb 11:25,
Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

Heb 11:26,
Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

Heb 11:27,
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Heb 11:28,
Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

Heb 11:29,
By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

Heb 11:30,
By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

Heb 11:31,
By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

Heb 11:32, ¶ And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

Heb 11:33,
Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Heb 11:34,
Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

Heb 11:35,
Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

Heb 11:36,
And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

Heb 11:37,
They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

Heb 11:38,
(Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

Heb 11:39,
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

The main difference is that much of the ceremonial laws pointing to Jesus have been fulfilled under the New Covenant because they pointed to Jesus, His life, death, resurrection and ministration as our great high priest and intercessor on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary.

The 4th Commandment of God's Law (10 commandments) is the 7th Day Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11).
James and many other scriptures tell us that if we knowingly and willfully break and of God's Law we are sinning against God and we are not believing God's Word and not following God. If we are in unrepentant sin we will not inherit God's Kingdom and are in danger of the Judgement. (James 2:8-12; Romans 6:23; Matthew 7:21; Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8; Romans 3:31; John 15:5-6; 1 John 2:3-4 etc)

God is not willing that any of us should perish but that all of us should be saved and come to repentance to follow God's Word (2 Peter 2:9). If we turn from our sins and confess them to Jesus he promises to forgive us from our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9)

In Christ Always!

I don't think you're paying attention to what you post.

 

[listed]

You missed the point in your response.
The Christian has Gods laws that he desires them to follow written in their minds and placed on their hearts. Through the law placed their they have inner convictuon of their sin. As you agree, it is no longer a written down law, but an internal law written on tablets of human hearts. Therefore, you do not have to read written down law to be conscious of the law placed within you, that was the OC, not the new one.
Your conviction of sin/ law God desires you to follow comes from within, it is an inner conviction. Any law you are convicted to follow because you read what is written in ink in the OT CANNOT be law written in your mind and placed on your heart, for that law you instinctively know. For what is in your mind, you in your mind must know. And law placed in your heart must bring heartfelt conviction you sin when you wilfully transgress it.
This is the spiritual truth of the covenant the Christian is under

Can agree with this.

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob, good question. It is interesting if you look at what the Torah actually is. I did not really understand what the word Torah was referring to for some time when people were talking about it.

LGW, You, I believe, feel you and the SDA church are the only ones who know anything about the Bible. Really, do you think you have to give us the Primary version of what the old covenant is about?

You will do anything to not answer my questions. The long list of verses do not impress me at all. I gave you a verse to study explaining what the covenant was all about and I do not see an answer. Why are you so hesitant to answer or refute the fact that the OC was not about salvation? God said it was a covenant to give Israel a set of laws that would make them a Holy Nation. EX19:5-6 If God said it I believe it. I know it upsets your apple cart, but when truth is truth I believe we should follow it and spread it to those like you who believe we are under the laws that governed the nation of Israel to make them a Holy Nation.

The fact is Israel didn't keep the covenant and when a covenant is broken it no longer exists. The covenant was very complex and certainly was not as good as the covenant He has given to those who accept His son Jesus Christ.

You can continue your effort to try to avoid the facts by your persuasion about ceremonies being done away, but the real fact is that Torah ended when Israel failed to live up to the covenant. They were not living like the Father asked them to live. The didn't meet the expectations of the covenant.

The covenant is history and yes we can glean much from their laws and the history is very important to help Christians in our walk through life. The fact is we today are not subject to Israel's ritual laws wherever they are found.

God is not willing that any of us should perish but that all of us should be saved and come to repentance to follow God's Word (2 Peter 2:9). If we turn from our sins and confess them to Jesus he promises to forgive us from our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9)

Amen!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LGW, You, I believe, feel you and the SDA church are the only ones who know anything about the Bible. Really, do you think you have to give us the Primary version of what the old covenant is about? You will do anything to not answer my questions. The long list of verses do not impress me at all. I gave you a verse to study explaining what the covenant was all about and I do not see an answer.

Hello Bob,

All your questions have been very clearly answered from your earlier post with scripture in post # 416 (linked) that you left out of your quote in your post above. It seems you did not like the answer because it does not agree with your interpretation of God's Word. I present scripture because it supports what I believe and is what God has asked me to do. You did not see the answer in this post because you choose not to because it does not hold to your view.

In Christ Always!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I don't know where you get this stuff about Israel ruling as God. I can't find anything in the Scripture to suggest much less back it up. Where does the Bible say non Israeli represent Israel?

Israel H3478 meaning ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl; yis-raw-ale'; From H8280 and H410; he will rule as God ; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: - Israel.

You promote the concept of "spiritual Israel" trying to obligate others to the covenant given to Israel. You statement is therefore false.

To say those that believe God’s Word and follow it is God’s definition of Israel is not my concept it is God’s Word which is supported by around 70 scriptures that you have chosen to disregard. This is despite God’s Word also saying that the New Covenant is to Israel (Hebrews 8:10-12) which is defined in the Word already provided as the believers and followers of God’s Word.

For it is written…

Let God be true and every man a liar that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ

Now who is Abraham’s seed?

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus and if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

God’s Word defines God’s people as Israel who are the believers and followers of God’s Word. There is no need to go through the (70+) scriptures again.

Everything else in your posts have said is pretty much just going around in circles and has already been answered with scripture so I will leave that with you. If you want me to answer something specific again please let me know?


In Christ Always!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

OK by me if that makes you feel good. I read your definitions and see no significant difference from mine. Your definitions clearly putt he 7thd ay sabbath in the ceremonial aspects of the law which you claim were nailed to the cross. My argument still stands.

The difference in the dictionary definitions is that the biblical one referenced says that the word ceremonial is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses not the moral Law of God. The Sabbath commandment from is a part of the moral Law of God (10 commandments). What you have said above is not true at all as the 4th commandments (the 7th day Sabbath; Exodus 20:8-11) is part of the moral law of God and therefore according to the biblical dictionary is not a part of the ceremonial laws of Moses.

Here let me paste it again for your reference.

CEREMONIAL, adjective (Source linked)

1. Relating to ceremony, or external rite; ritual; according to the forms of established rites; as ceremonial exactness. It is particularly applied to the forms and rites of the Jewish religion; as the ceremonial law or worship, as distinguished from the moral and judicial law.

2. Formal; observant of old forms; exact; precise in manners.

[In this sense, ceremonious is now used.]

CEREMONIAL, noun

1. Outward form; external rite, or established forms or rites, including all the forms prescribed; a system of rules and ceremonies, enjoined by law or established by custom, whether in religious worship, in social intercourse, or in the courts of princes.
2. The order for rites and forms in the Romish church, or the book containing the rules prescribed to be observed on solemn occasions.

MEMO'RIAL, adjective [Latin memorialis. See Memory.]

1. Preservative of memory.
There high in air memorial of my name, Fix the smooth oar, and bid me live to fame
2. Contained in memory; as memorial possession.

MEMO'RIAL, noun That which preserves the memory of something; any thing that serves to keep in memory.

So ceremonial is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses not the God's moral law which are the 10 commandments of which the 4th commandments is one of the 10.

LoveGodsWord said: Let's now look at the scriptures...Exodus 20:8-11 8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.… Listed replied: The first word of verse 8 squarely puts the sabbath in the ceremonial aspect of the law. It requires some kind of action. The rest of the law defines more of what happens on the sabbath.

Now you are saying the first word in God’s Sabbath commandment found in Exodus 20:8-11 which is “Remember” “puts the sabbath in the ceremonial aspect of the law” You probably need to go back and check your definitions. This only supports what I have been saying to you and that is the 7th Day Sabbath commandment is a memorial of creation. Here is the definition again for ease of viewing.

1. First word of the Sabbath commandment is “Remember” (Exodus 20:8)
2. “Memorial” preserves the memory of something; anything that serves to keep in memory; <remember>.

You are just making my case stronger.

Ok let me tell you why I use the verses in Genesis 2:1-3

Genesis 2:1-3
1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: <Why?> because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Now let’s look at the 4th commandment…

Exodus 20:8-11
8, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9, Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10, But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <Why?> 11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The above key points of each scripture references are highlighted in RED. God’s 4th commandment in Exodus 20:8-11 is a back reference to Genesis 2:1-3 and the reason why the commandment was given. We are to Remember (memorial) the Sabbath day because it is written v11 “in six days the LORD made the heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is and rested the seventh day; wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. v11 is a reference to Genesis 2:1-3 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: <Why?> because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The 4th commandment in Exodus 20:8-11 is a reference to Genesis 2:1-3

God ceased from his work rested on the 7th day of the creation week (Gen 2:2)
God’s people to remember the 7th day of the creation week and cease from their work and rest (Ex 20:8-11)
God blessed the 7th Day of creation (Gen 2:3)
God blessed the 7 day Sabbath (Ex 20:11)
God Sanctified and made holy the 7th Day of the creation week (Gen 2:3) God’s Word is forever (1 Peter 1:25; Isaiah 40:8; Matthew 24:35)
God Sanctified and made holy the 7th Day weekly Sabbath (Ex 20:11) Also the spoken word of God (Exodus 20:1) God’s Word is forever (1 Peter 1:25; Isaiah 40:8; Matthew 24:35)

Now let’s look at the Hebrew word for Sabbath. Let’s start with the word for Sabbath found in Exodus 20:8-11.

Sabbath Hebrew H7676 Strongs שׁבּת; shabbâth; shab-bawth'; Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath. The meaning here is from one interval to another. The interval is from the 7th Day of the week to the next 7th Day of the week. The root word of Sabbath is from H7673 which means שׁבת; shâbath; shaw-bath'

to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.This is in line with the writing of the 4th commandment which says we are to repose not to work to rest.

Now let’s look at word used in Genesis 2:2-3

2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested H7673 on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: <Why?> because that in it he had rested H7673 from all his work which God created and made.

The Hebrew Word for rested H7673 used here in Genesis 2:2-3 is the same root word used in Exodus 20 of Sabbath H7676 (one Sabbath to the next) which means שׁבת; shâbath; shaw-bath' to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away. This is in line with the writing of the 4th commandment which says we are to repose not to work to rest.

We could stop here as we have already shown very clearly that the 4th commandment of God’s Law is forever because it is the work of God himself spoken by God himself (Exodus 31:18; Exodus 20:1) and his Word says that whatsoever God does himself is forever (Ecclesiastes 3:14; 1 Peter 1:25; Isaiah 40:8; Matthew 24:35). The 4th commandment is part of the 10 commandments of God’s moral laws and not a ceremonial law of Moses that was a shadow of things to come pointing to Jesus.

Now let’s put it to rest once and for all and I will show you why I really use Genesis 2:1-3 to prove God’s 4th commandment (the 7th Day Sabbath Exodus 20:8-11) cannot be a part of the ceremonial laws of Moses….

GENESIS 2:1-3
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Scripture context points:
* God finished all the work of creation on the 7th Day of the week (v1)
* God ended His Work on the 7th Day of the creation week and rested from all His work of creation, it was completed no more work required (v2)
* God blessed the 7th Day and set it apart as a holy day as a memorial of creation

Critical questions and answers:

When was God’s 7th Day Sabbath made, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind?
It was made BEFORE the fall of mankind at the end of the creation week on the 7th Day and was the result of a FINISHED work!

Was God’s work of creation a FINISHED WORK or an UNFUNISHED WORK?
The 7th Day Sabbath was the result of the FINISHED AND COMPLETED WORK of creation!

When were God’s Laws and the laws of Moses given, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind? Obviously AFTER the fall of mankind (Ex 20:1-17, Lev 23:1-44, etc) they were part of God’s plan of salvation.

So in summary the 7th Day Sabbath is a memorial of the FINISHED work of creation and if it is a FINISHED work and a memorial of God’s creation that was given BEFORE the FALL of mankind before SIN had entered the world and before the plan of salvation was given to FALLEN man. If it was a part of a FINISHED work then it cannot be a Shadow of salvation because a Shadow was part of an UNFINISHED work given in the laws of Moses AFTER the fall of mankind where the Sabbath was made before the fall and before sin had entered the world!

So in summary no, the 4th commandment of Gods Law (Exodus 20:8-11) is not one of the ceremonial laws of Moses. The 4th Commandment is a memorial of creation and that is why God made it a Holy day. The Sabbath commandment was made for mankind as a memorial and celebration of creation (Mark 2:27). It is a sign that God's people worship the only true and living God of creation (Ezekiel 20:12). Jesus is the creator and Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and if we love him we must follow him (John 14:15). If we knowingly break it or any of the 10 we are guilty before God and need to seek his forgiveness.

In Christ Always!

 

[stuart lawrence]

How can you convince people to follow after the holy spirit into truth rather than them hinge everything on the partial letter itself? You cannot, only God can do that, as he graciously did it for me.
No one can quote the letter of obedience and themselves live up to what they are preaching to others. That is an absolute fact.
The tragedy is those who listen to the message of the letter and believe it. So many souls have been left crushed by believing the letter preached.
The letter will always kill( 2cor3:6)
So many preach the letter, in varying denominations. In truth the great love, mercy and compassion of God is then being neglected. But people firmly believe they are preaching the true message, though they are not, for they preach much of the literal letter without the heart of the message. As it was 2000 years ago, so it is today

 

[stuart lawrence]

When you become a Christian, God will write the law in your mind and place it in your heart he desires you follow. You don't have to ask him to do it, you don't have to believe he will do it. HE WILL DO IT. But you are asked to believe the other core foundational.point on which the NC stands:
Their sins and lawless deeds i will remember no more.
So, so many have the law placed within them, and in their zeal earnestly preach obedience to it. However, they neglect the other foundational point on which the NC stands. it's all about obeying the law, not true grace.
Indeed, I was once the same. But i could not practice what I preached. No one can.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

How can you convince people to follow after the holy spirit into truth rather than them hinge everything on the partial letter itself? You cannot, only God can do that, as he graciously did it for me.
No one can quote the letter of obedience and themselves live up to what they are preaching to others. That is an absolute fact.
The tragedy is those who listen to the message of the letter and believe it. So many souls have been left crushed by believing the letter preached.
The letter will always kill( 2cor3:6)
So many preach the letter, in varying denominations. In truth the great love, mercy and compassion of God is then being neglected. But people firmly believe they are preaching the true message, though they are not, for they preach much of the literal letter without the heart of the message. As it was 2000 years ago, so it is today

Hi Stuart,

How are you today? Nice to see you again. For me personally I read in the scriptures that God only gives his Holy spirit to those that by faith believe and follow God's Word (Acts 5:31-32). I see God's Word as Jesus (John 1:14) and through it we find Jesus. Without God's Word we cannot know God (Isaiah 55:6-9). In God's Word is revealed his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us (Romans 5:8; John 3:16). It is not God's Law that makes us obedient it only shows us what sin is and reveals to us our true condition as God sees us as sinners wearing a righteousness of filthy rags condemned to die and in need of a Saviour (Isaiah 64:6; Matthew 9:12-13). This is why Jesus says They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance (Matthew 9:12-13). It is only at the foot at the cross when we come just as God sees us, humbled, just as we truly are, as sinners in need of a Saviour that Jesus reveals himself to us through His Word. It is here that we see that we love him because he first loved us. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law not because we are saved by it, but because we love him who first loved us and we choose to follow Him (Romans 13:9-10). God's Word is Love because God is Love and if we have faith in his Word he will change us. This is the same Word of creation to all those who believe. To him be all the glory forever and ever...

In Christ Always!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Hi Stuart,

How are you today? Nice to see you again. For me personally I read in the scriptures that God only gives his Holy spirit to those that by faith believe and follow God's Word (Acts 5:31-32). I see God's Word as Jesus (John 1:14) and through it we find Jesus. Without God's Word we cannot know God (Isaiah 55:6-9). In God's Word is revealed his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us (Romans 5:8; John 3:16). It is not God's Law that makes us obedient it only shows us what sin is and reveals to us our true condition as God sees us as sinners wearing a righteousness of filthy rags condemned to die and in need of a Saviour (Isaiah 64:6; Matthew 9:12-13). This is why Jesus says They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance (Matthew 9:12-13). It is only at the foot at the cross when we come just as God sees us, humbled, just as we truly are, as sinners in need of a Saviour that Jesus reveals himself to us through His Word. It is here that we see that we love him because he first loved us. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law not because we are saved by it, but because we love him who first loved us and we choose to follow Him (Romans 13:9-10). God's Word is Love and if we have faith in his Word he will change us. To him be all the glory forever and ever...

In Christ Always!

You cannot be a Christian unless the Holy Spirit dwells in you( rom8:9)
Must one obey Gods word/ his laws before the Holy Spirit will enter their life and they may therefore be in a saved state? That would mean overcoming sin without the one who sanctifies the believer.
As soon as you link being in a saved state to obeying the law, you place someone under righteousness of observing the law in the real world. That is the practical reality.
If you can only be in a saved state if you observe the law, how can your sins and lawless deeds be remembered no more?

 

[stuart lawrence]

people have very different understanding of what is entailed in observing Gods laws. The spirit filled Christian understands where the bar is set, those who are not spirit filled appear not to.
One man in another thread stated.
I honour my parents, I find it easy not to murder, Gods laws are easy to obey.
Does such a man truly understand what is entailed in observing the law?
If being in a saved state hinges on observing the law, will God ignore the law you fail to keep, in favour of that which you can keep? No! He can't do that.
How many can truly say they fully obey the law only they and God need know they break, the law that pertains to the inner man.
Will God Keep you in a saved state for observing law everyone can see, while ignoring your shortcomings concerning that which men cannot see?
No! God cannot do that, if your being in a saved state/ righteous hinges on observing the law. It comes as a composite whole, the law God desires you to follow

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You cannot be a Christian unless the Holy Spirit dwells in you( rom8:9)
Must one obey Gods word/ his laws before the Holy Spirit will enter their life and they may therefore be in a saved state? That would mean overcoming sin without the one who sanctifies the believer.
As soon as you link being in a saved state to obeying the law, you place someone under righteousness of observing the law in the real world. That is the practical reality.
If you can only be in a saved state if you observe the law, how can your sins and lawless deeds be remembered no more?

All God asks of the sinner is to have faith and to believe and trust in God's Word and to seek God through it. It is God who saved us as we believe and follow His Word and is why it is written we walk by faith and not by sight. Faith is the victory the overcomes the world. It makes us a partaker of the divine nature of love. Believing God's Word, seeking forgiveness through confession and repentance from sin are the conditions for receiving the Holy Spirit. Salvation from sin to follow God is the good news of the Gospel of Jesus.

 

[stuart lawrence]

All God asks of the sinner is to have faith and to believe and trust in God's Word and to seek God through it. It is God who saved us as we believe and follow His Word and is why it is written we walk by faith and not by sight. Faith is the victory the overcomes the world. It makes us a partaker of the divine nature of love. Believing God's Word, seeking forgiveness through confession and repentance from sin are the conditions for receiving the Holy Spirit. Salvation from sin to follow God is the good news of the Gospel of Jesus.

The law is not based on faith
Gal3:12

 

[LoveGodsWord]

people have very different understanding of what is entailed in observing Gods laws. The spirit filled Christian understands where the bar is set, those who are not spirit filled appear not to.
One man in another thread stated.
I honour my parents, I find it easy not to murder, Gods laws are easy to obey.
Does such a man truly understand what is entailed in observing the law?
If being in a saved state hinges on observing the law, will God ignore the law you fail to keep, in favour of that which you can keep? No! He can't do that.
How many can truly say they fully obey the law only they and God need know they break, the law that pertains to the inner man.
Will God Keep you in a saved state for observing law everyone can see, while ignoring your shortcomings concerning that which men cannot see?
No! God cannot do that, if your being in a saved state/ righteous hinges on observing the law. It comes as a composite whole, the law God desires you to follow

Those that are not Spirit filled and walking in the Spirit are still in their sins and do not know God and need to be born of God. (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-10)

 

[stuart lawrence]

The Holy Spirit enters your life the moment you repent and ask Christ to be your Lord and saviour. You cannot be in a saved state otherwise

 

[stuart lawrence]

Those that are not Spirit filled and walking in the Spirit are still in their sins and do not know God and need to be born of God. (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-10)

The church i went to where people appeared least conscious of their sins, was a church that earnestly stressed the TC must be obeyed

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The law is not based on faith
Gal3:12

No it is not it shows us what sin is and brings us to Jesus so we can be justified by faith. (James 2:11; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Galatians 3:24-25). When we are justified by faith God's Law is established in us as we have faith in God's Word (Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4)

 

[stuart lawrence]

The Holy Spirit enters your life the moment you repent and ask Christ to be your Lord and saviour. You cannot be in a saved state otherwise

Those that are not Spirit filled and walking in the Spirit are still in their sins and do not know God and need to be born of God. (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-10)

A spirit filled Christian instinctively knows the law God desires them to follow, for it is written in their mind and placed on their heart under the core terms of the NC.
Therefore spirit filled christianity is inner convictuon of sin/ Gods laws for that is where the law has been placed. It is not deciding which law should be followed based on what you read in ink

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The church i went to where people appeared least conscious of their sins, was a church that earnestly stressed the TC must be obeyed

Maybe some of those people did not know God's Word. Only God knows. I believe God has his people in all churches. But he is calling his true believers to come out and worship him in Spirit and in truth according to his Word.