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GOD'S LAW (10 commandments) ARE FOREVER!

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Sep 1, 2017.

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  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    Hello Friend,

    It probably helps since we are referring to the Bible to use an English bible based dictionary. I have provided a link for you below for my reference.

    CEREMONIAL, adjective (Source linked)

    1. Relating to ceremony, or external rite; ritual; according to the forms of established rites; as ceremonial exactness. It is particularly applied to the forms and rites of the Jewish religion; as the ceremonial law or worship, as distinguished from the moral and judicial law.

    2. Formal; observant of old forms; exact; precise in manners.

    [In this sense, ceremonious is now used.]

    CEREMONIAL, noun

    1. Outward form; external rite, or established forms or rites, including all the forms prescribed; a system of rules and ceremonies, enjoined by law or established by custom, whether in religious worship, in social intercourse, or in the courts of princes.

    2. The order for rites and forms in the Romish church, or the book containing the rules prescribed to be observed on solemn occasions.

    adjective [Latin memorialis. See Memory.]

    1. Preservative of memory.
    There high in air memorial of my name, Fix the smooth oar, and bid me live to fame.
    2. Contained in memory; as memorial possession.

    MEMO'RIAL, noun That which preserves the memory of something; any thing that serves to keep in memory.

    Let's now look at the scriptures...

    Exodus 20:8-11

    8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9, Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <Why?> 11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    Genesis 2:1-3
    1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: <Why?> because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

    So in summary no, the 4th commandment of Gods Law (Exodus 20:8-11) is not one of the ceremonial laws of Moses. The 4th Commandment is a memorial of creation and that is why God made it a Holy day. The Sabbath commandment was made for mankind as a memorial and celebration of creation (Mark 2:27). It is a sign that God's people worship the only true and living God of creation (Ezekiel 20:12). Jesus is the creator and Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and if we love him we must follow him (John 14:15).
    Lets' test if what you are claiming is true or not according to God's Word.

    You quote Romans 9:28 in support of your claim that Israel is not referring to spiritual Israel which says... "For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth." Then you quote Hosea 2:23.. " 23, And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God. Then you say there is no scripture that says that these people will become Israeli.

    Firstly lets make something clear. I have never said to you that a Christian will become Israeli. So you are making an argument that is not there. Now if they are all the scriptures you have to show who God's people are lets see what God's Word says who God's people Israel are.

    Who does God's Word call God's People?

    Israel" is the name given by God himself to represent his people. It has its origin from Gen 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God or an overcomer with God and man. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel. Anyone who is by faith following God's Word represent God's Israel according to God's Word. Look at the scriptures;

    Galatians 3:29,
    And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

    Romans 2:28-29,
    For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly;
    neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    Romans 10:11-13,
    For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    Galatians 3:28-29,
    There is neither Jew nor Greek
    , there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Colossians 3:11,
    Where there is neither Greek nor Jew,
    circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

    Jeremiah 31:33-4,
    But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Hebrews 8:10-12,
    For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    Hebrews 10:14-17,
    For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

    Ezekiel 36:24-27,
    24, For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25, Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    Galatians 6:15-16

    15, For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16, And as many as walk according to this rule,<New creature in Christ> peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

    Romans 9:3-8
    3, For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4, Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5, Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 6, ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7, Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8, That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    Romans 11:1-36 (Gentiles grafted in)

    The New Covenant is for true Israel. These are those the believe and follow God's Word. The promise of the new covenant is to Israel as God's Word defines Israel (not a literal nation with man made definitions). If you are not a part of God's Israel (Believer in God's Word) the New Covenant is not for you. As it is written; If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    So nope what you have claimed above is not true at all.

    Hebrews 3:14,

    For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end

    John 8:31-32
    If ye continue in my word,
    then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    1 John 2:3-4,
    And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    Being a Christian is conditional on believing and following God's Word.
    Friend I have never said when a person sins they void their salvation. I have only ever said that God's Word says that if you are in unrepentant sin you are in danger of being lost.

    James 2:8-12
    8, If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: 9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

    Hebrews 6:4-8
    4, For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7, For the earth which drinks in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8, But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

    Hebrews 10:26-27
    26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

    There are many more scriptures. We must believe God's Word and follow Jesus if we wish to be saved from our sins.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  2. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    I will bring back my exiled people Israel
    They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them
    They will plant vineyards and drink their wine
    They will make gardens and eat their fruit
    I will plant Israel in their own land
    Never again to be uprooted
    From the land i have given them
  3. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    If you read Ezekiel 36:16-24 those verses can only possibly refer to the nation of Israel
  4. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    The greatest OT prophecy to come to pass since Christ walked this earth was in 1948, when the Jews became a nation again in their biblical homeland( or part thereof)
  5. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    Again the word of the Lord came to me. Son of man when the people of Israel were living in their own land they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman's uncleanliness in my sight
    So I poured out my wrath on them because they had shed blood in the land and because they had defiled it with idols
    I dispersed them among the nations and they were scattered through the countries. I judged them according to their conduct and their actions
    And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name for it was said of them: These are the Lord's people yet they had to leave his land.
    I had concern for my Holy name, which the house of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.
    Therefore say to the house of Israel, this is what the sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake o house of Israel that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone.
    I will show the holiness of my great name which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know I am the Lord, declares the sovereign Lord, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes.
    For i will take you out of the nations. I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land
    I will sprinkle clean water on you and you will be clean, i will cleanse you from all your Impurities and all your idols.
    I will give you a new heart and put a new Spirit in you. I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
    And I will put my spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws
    Ezekiel 36:16-27
  6. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    DONT just take a couple of verses out of a chapter and apply them, read the surrounding verses also, sometimes the whole chapter is needed
  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    :oldthumbsup: Agree

    Hi Stuart, can't stay that long sorry. I haven't been able to reply to as many of your post as I would have liked to (work and family time). Yes do not disagree about Ezekiel 36 referring to God's people Israel. That was the purpose of the post which was in relation to the New Covenant promise along with the other posts.

    In Christ Always!
  8. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    My name's not Bob!

    The point is, in ezekiel ch36, verses 26&27 were specifically being stated concerning Jews, in that chapter, for that is whom the preceding ten verses referred to
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    Stuart, did you read the post?
  10. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

  11. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    So... I said I agree with you :oldthumbsup: So I am not sure what your posting about
  12. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    I agree, that all Christians can be referred to as spiritual israel. However, there are specific prophecies in the OT concerning the nation of israel. God will choose to bless the nation of Israel, and bring them to become part of spiritual israel, en masse
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    I see. Perhaps you may be right? I have not done much study into the prophecies of the literal nation of Israel, so will not offer comment about something I am not sure about.
  14. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    They will look on him whom they pierced and mourn. And each clan will accept him as their saviour
    Zech ch12
  15. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    Hi Bob, good question. It is interesting if you look at what the Torah actually is. I did not really understand what the word Torah was referring to for some time when people were talking about it.

    So what is the Torah?

    "Torah" in Hebrew also called "Pentateuch from the Greek" is the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). These are also called the book of Moses as they were written by Moses. So everyone that professed to be Christian or Jew believes in the Torah (first five books of the bible written by Moses) as these books are included in the bible and help make up God's Word.

    The 5 books of Moses give the history of the origin of creation and the fall of mankind and an introduction to God's plan of salvation from sin through the ceremonial laws of Moses (eg. Levitical ceremonial laws of burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin, the priesthood, the Sanctuary services and annual festivals). So to me the Torah does indeed describe the plan of salvation from sin and points to Jesus as the Saviour of the world and were shadows of things to come. (Leviticus 1; 3-12; 14-17; 22-23; Number 6-8; 15; 28-29; Deut 12; 33; Ex 25:8; John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6;Colossians 2:14;17; Hebrews 8:1-5; 6-13; Hebrews 10:1-19; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29)

    People in the Old Covenant were saved in the exact same way that we are saved in the New and that has always been by faith. (forgive me if you have already seen these in another thread)

    Gal 3:2,
    This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Gal 3:6,
    Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

    Gal 3:7,
    Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

    Gal 3:8,
    And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    Gal 3:9,

    So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

    Gal 3:14,
    That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    Gal 3:16,
    Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made
    . He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    Gal 3:17,
    And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

    Hab 2:4,
    Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

    Rom 4:16,
    Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

    Rom 4:17,
    As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

    Rom 4:18,
    Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

    Rom 4:19,
    And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:

    Rom 4:20,
    He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

    Rom 4:21,
    And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

    Rom 4:22,
    And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

    Heb 11:4
    By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

    Heb 11:5,
    By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

    Heb 11:7,
    By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

    Heb 11:8,
    By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

    Heb 11:9,
    By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

    Heb 11:10,
    For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

    Heb 11:11,
    Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

    Heb 11:17,
    By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

    Heb 11:18,
    Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

    Heb 11:19,
    Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

    Heb 11:20,
    By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

    Heb 11:21,
    By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

    Heb 11:22,
    By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

    Heb 11:23,
    By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

    Heb 11:24,
    By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

    Heb 11:25,
    Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

    Heb 11:26,
    Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

    Heb 11:27,
    By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

    Heb 11:28,
    Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

    Heb 11:29,
    By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

    Heb 11:30,
    By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

    Heb 11:31,
    By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

    Heb 11:32, ¶ And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

    Heb 11:33,
    Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

    Heb 11:34,
    Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

    Heb 11:35,
    Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

    Heb 11:36,
    And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

    Heb 11:37,
    They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

    Heb 11:38,
    (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

    Heb 11:39,
    And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

    The main difference is that much of the ceremonial laws pointing to Jesus have been fulfilled under the New Covenant because they pointed to Jesus, His life, death, resurrection and ministration as our great high priest and intercessor on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary.

    The 4th Commandment of God's Law (10 commandments) is the 7th Day Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11).
    James and many other scriptures tell us that if we knowingly and willfully break and of God's Law we are sinning against God and we are not believing God's Word and not following God. If we are in unrepentant sin we will not inherit God's Kingdom and are in danger of the Judgement. (James 2:8-12; Romans 6:23; Matthew 7:21; Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8; Romans 3:31; John 15:5-6; 1 John 2:3-4 etc)

    God is not willing that any of us should perish but that all of us should be saved and come to repentance to follow God's Word (2 Peter 2:9). If we turn from our sins and confess them to Jesus he promises to forgive us from our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9)

    In Christ Always!
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    Hi Listed,
    It may be best if we just be friends and agree to disagree as it seems you are getting upset which is not what I was wanting to achieve by sharing scripture with you. Seems like we are just going around in circles. Wish you all the best as you seek Jesus through His Word.

    In Christ Always
  17. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    The main differences between old and new covenants is as follows:

    I will write my laws in their minds and place them in their hearts
    Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.

    Therefore, sin is not based on what you read in ink from the OT, but rather through inner convictuon due to the law written in your mind and placed on your heart. This, is spiritual, discernable truth concerning the NC.
    If you are ONLY convicted a person must observe a set Saturday sabbath because you read what is written in ink, then that law as written is NOT written in your mind and placed on your heart by the Holy Spirit.
    For I repeat, under the core terms of the NC, your conviction of sin cones from within, not through reading what is written down. For the law God desires you to follow us no longer an external written down law, it is a law placed in tablets of human hearts.
    And, your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more, if you are soneone who has the law in your heart.
    You are rationalising on the basis of the OC, not the spiritual truth of the new one.
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    Hi Stuart,

    I do agree with a lot that you posted above in regards to the New Covenant. However, the main difference that I read from God's Word, beside the fulfillment of the ceremonial laws of Moses (e.g. burnt offerings, sin offerings, other Levitical Sanctuary and festival laws that were shadows pointing to Jesus; see Leviticus 1:3-12; 14-17; 22-23; Numbers chapters 6-8; 15; 15:28-29; Deuteronomy 12; 33; Exodus 25:8; John 1:29; 36; Revelations 5:6; Colossians 2:14;17; Hebrews 8:1-5; 6-13; Hebrews 10:1-19; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Romans 2:28-29 ), is the Old Covenant has God's Laws (10 commandments) written on stone and the New Covenant has them written in the heart of the believer as they have faith in God's Word they are born again to love God and their fellow man (Hebrews 8:10-12; John 3:16; Romans 13:9-10; Matthew 22:37-38; James 2:8-12).

    I believe as I know you do as well that is it only through God's Law that any of us know what sin is because sin is the transgression of God's Law (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4). As it is written What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. It is only through God's Word that we have a knowledge of sin as the last scripture shows. The battle however is for the mind. Who has the thoughts? What do we love to think about the most? Who or what has our warmest and highest affections? This is why Jesus says; For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:20). It is only God's Law (10 commandments) that can bring us to the foot of the cross where we are all undone at the feet of Jesus where we can see our Savior. (Galatians 3:24-25). We must see ourselves as God sees us. Sinners in need of a Saviour will all our righteousness as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). This is why Jesus says; They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance (Matthew 8:12-13).

    Time for an intermission; and the reason why we love him

    It is be grace that we are saved through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God lest any man should boast and we follow him by faith as we resist temptation and walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Word of God). (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Corinthians 10:13; James 1:12; Romans 8:4). God's gift of grace which we receive by faith is for obedience so that the righteousness of God's Law is fulfilled and established in the life of the believer as God writes his Law of Love in us so that we can follow him (Romans 1:5; Romans 8:4; Romans 3:31). This is why it is also written; For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (Romans 13:9-10). This is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments" and If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 14:15; 15:10) In the new Covenant God's Law (10 commandments) the point out sin and the wages of sin being death to the Unbeliever are now God's promises of salvation to the believer as they have complete dependence and faith on the Word of God to do what it says it will do. (2 Peter 1:4).

    In Christ Always!
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  19. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    You missed the point in your response.
    The Christian has Gods laws that he desires them to follow written in their minds and placed on their hearts. Through the law placed their they have inner convictuon of their sin. As you agree, it is no longer a written down law, but an internal law written on tablets of human hearts. Therefore, you do not have to read written down law to be conscious of the law placed within you, that was the OC, not the new one.
    Your conviction of sin/ law God desires you to follow comes from within, it is an inner conviction. Any law you are convicted to follow because you read what is written in ink in the OT CANNOT be law written in your mind and placed on your heart, for that law you instinctively know. For what is in your mind, you in your mind must know. And law placed in your heart must bring heartfelt conviction you sin when you wilfully transgress it.
    This is the spiritual truth of the covenant the Christian is under
  20. listed

    listed are you?

    OK by me if that makes you feel good. I read your definitions and see no significant difference from mine. Your definitions clearly putt he 7thd ay sabbath in the ceremonial aspects of the law which you claim were nailed to the cross. My argument still stands.
    The first word of verse 8 squarely puts the sabbath in the ceremonial aspect of the law. It requires some kind of action. The rest of the law defines more of what happens on the sabbath.
    I don't know why you use this verse. It has nothing to do with the sabbath at the point of creation. The word sabbath isn't found anywhere in Genesis.
    I could agree with you here if you did nothing to remember the sabbath other than look at it like you would the oar in your definition. Your definition doesn't indicate anything about using the oar. You do use the sabbath.

    As for why God made the 7th day a holy day, I think you're off base by not including passages like Exodus 31:13, 17. Those verses alone indicate the sabbath is exclusive to Israel. The sabbath is a sign of the covenant. It's fine by me if you want to argue it's more to which I'd agree. Agreement stops at the change of the covenant promised by Jeremiah and ratified by Jesus.
    Thank you for that admission. That means a Christian doesn't become obligated to any of their covenants, specifically the 1 issued at Sinai. My 2 verses indicate foreigners can become part of the new covenant without becoming a physical or spiritual Jew. There's no phrase "spiritual Israel" to be found in the Bible. That is a made up term so people can obligate others to the covenant given at Sinai. The problem is the new covenant isn't like the previous covenant according to Jeremiah. You can squawk all yuo want that the covenant is different because of movement. Hebrews says the new covenant is made on "better promises." Even "promises" aren't law (thou shalt not on pain of death).
    You promote the concept of "spiritual Israel" trying to obligate others to the covenant given to Israel. You statement is therefore false.
    I don't know where you get this stuff about Israel ruling as God. I can't find anything in the Scripture to suggest much less back it up. Where does the Bible say non Israeli represent Israel?[/quote]

    Galatians 3:29,
    And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise
    This doesn't relate to Israel in any way. Abraham is a full blood Gentile.
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