GOD'S LAW (10 commandments) ARE FOREVER!

[listed]

Well if you are conscious you sin by committing adultery, stealing, bearing false witness, coveting etc, that law MUST be written in your mind and placed on your heart. For:
Through the law we become conscious if sin rom3:20

Most people don't recognize the listed sins as a violation of God's law, the ten commandments. Most people recognize them as wrong or sin (unjust, dishonest, or immoral) because they violate civil law or when done to them. I don't meant to detract from the Scripture. Regardless of how it's proven doesn't matter. The real deal for the Christian is the Holy Spirit pricks the heart for doing wrong. It's not the law doing the pricking. Before conversion (being born again) this isn't the case because a person isn't lead (governed) by the Holy Spirit.

 

[listed]

The Old and the New Covenants were only ever given to God’s people. The true believers. Israel is God’s name for his people given by God to describe his people as being overcomers. The scriptures say this about the origin of the name God gave to his people and who Israel are in God’s eyes.

Aren't you mistaken about who God's people are?

As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Who are Israel?

Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. It has its origin from Gen 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel. This is God's people and today anyone the is following Jesus is part of God's spiritual Israel according to God's Word. The same New Covenant is written for God's people who are now spiritual Israel following. Scripture support;

Gal 3:28-29,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This verse doesn't identify anyone as part of Israel.

Col 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

This verse doesn't identify anyone as part of Israel.

Rom 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This verse doesn't identify anyone as part of Israel.

Rom 2:28-29,
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Jer 31:33-4,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Read Acts of the Apostles. It proves without doubt the world Jesus died for is included.

Heb 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Read Acts of the Apostles. It proves without doubt the world Jesus died for is included.

Heb 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Read Acts of the Apostles. It proves without doubt the world Jesus died for is included.

Gal 3:29,
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

This verse doesn't identify anyone as part of Israel.

The New Covenant is for Spiritual Israel which represent God’s followers the believers. If you are not part of spiritual Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Heb 8:10-12). Our opinions do not mean anything only God's Word is true. I believe God’s Word Bob, how about you?

There's no such thing as spiritual Israel. Acts proves otherwise when it comes to being part of the new covenant.

 

[listed]

Did I ever say all the commands in the Torah were ceremonial? The first five books in the bible are the Torah and I have never said that all of these are the ceremonial laws of Moses. Do you know what are the ceremonial laws of Moses are? Who is talking about dividing God’s Law and the ceremonial laws of Moses? Not me. I only said and provided scripture to show that they are not the same as each other and had a different role under the Old Covenant and were separate from each other because one was to pass away and the other is forever. (Ecc 3:14)

No you didn't. But you refuses to admit celebrating something is a ceremonial act.

Yes and all the actions done by the levitical priesthood are ceremonial when it comes to sin. The levitical priesthood isn't covered by the ten commandments.

 

[listed]

Your interpretation of 2Cor 3:7-11 and Gal 3:19 saying that God’s 10 commandments are “Non-binding” and “temporary” and “ended at the cross” is a false interpretation of God’s Word and is in contradiction to the Word of God. Your statement above only shows you do not know the difference between the ceremonial laws of Moses and God’s Law (10 commandments) which is forever or the roles they both play in the Old and the New Covenants. Here you go Bob I will just use a few New Testament scriptures only. Please harmonize these 20+ scriptures with your interpretation that God’s Law (10 commandments) being ended at the cross. As they say the opposite of what you believe. No theories or opinions please use scripture.

No because Paul cites the ten commandments as teh law and says we are delivered from the law.

Matthew 5:17-19,
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

You missed Luke 24:44 a direct reference to your passage.

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Matthew 19:17,
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

This ignores OT passages saying there are none who do and the lament of Isaiah. The entire narrative about this question proves what was requested by the man to be impossible. Besides that it would invalidate the words of Jesus in John 10.

10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

Verse 8 says that man would be a thief and robber.

James 2:8-12
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Verses 8 and 9 aren't references to the ten commandments. Verse 10 does include them and all the rest oft he law. There's no exception.

The law of liberty isn't restrictive. This in no way means a person is free to live a lifestyle of sin or not responsible for their wicked actions.

James 2:17, Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:20, But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James isn't talking about works oft he law.

1 John 2:3-4,
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4, He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Nowhere does John say keeping the law is required. We have 1 John 3:23.

James 2:10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Only if a person is obligated to it. The Christian isn't. See 1 Timothy 1:8-10.

John 14:15, If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I don't see a 10 in your verse.

John 15:10, If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Which commandments does Jesus say to keep?

Matthew 5:27-28,
27,Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28, But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

This isn't teaching or requiring the law be kept. It does however show a violation of the law.

1 John 3:3-10,
3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

This is being presented only to manipulate. The word "also" is being ignored. Proof is Romans 5:13 and Galatians 3:19.

Verse 6 is emphasized to manipulate and a full denial of willful violation of the 4th commandment.

Verse 8 is a full condemnation of self.

Verse 10 isn't a reference to the ten commandments.

I didn't comment on verse 9 because it would derail the thread and take a lengthy explanation.

1 John 5:2-3,
2, By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3, For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

This is misapplied thru the use of improper reference tot he pronouns. We find the commandment of God in 1 John 3:23.

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

2 John 1:6,
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Again a case of misapplied pronouns trying to prove obligation to the law.

Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust,3 except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
v12, Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

No reference or quote of verse 6. Why? The quoted verses don't imply obligation to the law.

Acts 17:30 In times of this ignorance God winks at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Hebrews 10:26-27
26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Oh my! This talks about willful sin. Not being in compliance with the 4th after the discussion in this forum is no excuse if a person maintains obligation tot he famous ten.

 

[stuart lawrence]

And so it goes on. Law written on stone wasn't transferred onto tablets of human hearts. However, if a Christian transgresses as written, nine of the commandments written on stone they will be conscious they commit sin.

I have to say, I'm struggling to recall such contradiction I have come accross on the internet.
I nearly forgot, another one has been aired in this very thread, from the other extreme

 

[stuart lawrence]

.

 

[stuart lawrence]

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but the Spirit of the living God. Not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts 2cor3:3

 

[LoveGodsWord]

This verse doesn't identify anyone as part of Israel. There's no such thing as spiritual Israel.

God's Word clearly describes where the name Israel came from. It came from God himself who uses this name to describe his people. You just saying "There is no such thing as spiritual Israel" or a "This verse doesn't identify Spiritual Israel" does not do away with the 19 scriptures from post # 314 you have chosen to close your eyes and ignore. This is God's Word friend not mine. I do not judge you for what you believe. This is between you and God and it is God's Word that will judge all of us in the last days (John 12:47-48)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: Matthew 5:17-19,
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. listed, reply: You missed Luke 24:44 a direct reference to your passage. And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

While Jesus was living his reference in Matthew 5:17-19 was in reference to God’s Law (10 commandments) and the laws of Moses. He obeyed all of God’s Laws as well as the ceremonial laws of Moses while living because he is the Lamb of God without spot or blemish (without sin 1 Pet 1:19) He obeyed the God’s Law because he was sinless (our perfect sacrifice). The ceremonial laws of Moses, the prophets and the psalms all pointed to him as the saviour of the world.

Luke 24:44 is in reference the Laws of Moses and the prophets and the psalms that pointed to Jesus. (e.g. see Isaiah 53; Psalms 22; Leviticus 23). These where the shadows discussed earlier that had their fulfilment and pointed to Jesus, his life, death, resurrection and ministration as our advocate and great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary (Hebrews 8:1-5; 6-13; Hebrews 10:1-19; Colosians 2:14;17; Hebrews chapters 9; 10; John 1:29; 1 Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29).

Luke 24:44 does not say that Jesus has abolished the 10 commandments just that he obeyed them and that the ceremonial laws of Moses were fulfilled in Him because they pointed to him. Matthew 15:19 goes on to say those that whoever breaks God’s Law and teach others to do the same will be called least in God’s Kingdom.

So nope you have not addressed the above scriptures.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: Matthew 19:17,
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. listed, reply: This ignores OT passages saying there are none who do and the lament of Isaiah. The entire narrative about this question proves what was requested by the man to be impossible. Besides that it would invalidate the words of Jesus in John 10. 10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. 7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. Verse 8 says that man would be a thief and robber.

You have not addressed the scripture at all.

LoveGodsWord said: James 2:8-12
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. listed, reply: Verses 8 and 9 aren't references to the ten commandments. Verse 10 does include them and all the rest oft he law. There's no exception. The law of liberty isn't restrictive. This in no way means a person is free to live a lifestyle of sin or not responsible for their wicked actions.

All the scriptures in James 2:8-12 are talking about the same thing. This is also referenced in the OT where God’s Law (10 commandments) is summed up as Love to God and Love to our neighbour (Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18). Even the Jewish Lawyers knew about this when talking to Jesus …

Luke 10:25-28

25, And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26, He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27, And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28, And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Who answered? Jesus or the Pharasee (the Lawyer)?

So nope, you are not correct all in saying that James 2:8-12 is not talking about God’s Law. James says that God’s Law (10 commandments) is the Royal Law which it goes on to talk about in more detail in verses 9-11 that if we break just one of the 10 we are guilty before God of breaking all of God’s Law. Then it tells us in verse 12 that we will all be judged by God’s Law (10 commandments) if we break it.

So nope. Once again you have not addressed the scriptures in James 2:8-12

Love is the fulfilling of God's Law (10 commandments) Romans 13:9-10

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: James 2:17, Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. James 2:20, But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? listed, reply: James isn't talking about works of the law.

The context of James 2:17-20 is James 8:12 which is the 10 commandments.

James 2:8-12
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

So nope. Once again you have not addressed the scriptures

LoveGodsWord said 1 John 2:3-4,
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4, He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. listed, reply: Nowhere does John say keeping the law is required. We have 1 John 3:23.

Once again you have ignored the scriptures and the context of the verse you quote. 1 John 2:2-4 Is a test to see if we are really following God or not. This test is in obedience to God’s Law. This is further explained in 1 John 3:3-15 which is the context of the scripture you quote (1 John 3:23). The context is sin and the transgression of God’s Law (10 commandments). John 3:4 is defining sin as being the transgression or breaking of God’s Law (10 commandments) this is further referenced in other scriptures. Unless you want to tell me the book of Romans in not talking about God’s Law (10 commandments) (see Rom 3:20; 7:7). 1 John 3:3-15 is consistent with 1 John 2:2-4 in that it is talking about the same test to know if you are really following God or not. That test if is we are being obedient to God’s Law (10 commandments). 1 John 3:12-15 puts it beyond any confusion as it is giving the example of the murder which is the 6th commandment (Ex 20:13). Then if goes on to talk about believing in Jesus (God’s Word) and that love that is fulfilling God’s Law. Romans 13:9-10 is talking about the same thing.

So nope. Once again you have not addressed the scriptures.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: James 2:10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. listed, reply: Only if a person is obligated to it. The Christian isn't. See 1 Timothy 1:8-10.

You quote 1 Timothy 1:8-10 but scripture says is that God’s Law points out sin. This is something you disagree with because you say God’s Law is abolished? Do you believe God’s Law is not abolished now?

1 Timothy 1:8-10
8, But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9, Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for men stealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Are you a Christian if you are in unrepentant known sin? God’s Word says you are not (Hebrews 10:26-27; 1 John 2:2-4; 1 John 3:3-9).

So nope. Once again you have not addressed the scriptures.

LoveGodsWord said: John 14:15, If ye love me, keep my commandments. listed, reply: I don't see a 10 in your verse.

That is because you are choosing to close your eyes to all the scripture sent you because they go against your interpretation of God’s Word.

Matthew 19:16-19
16, Behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17, And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18, He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Once again you have not addressed the scriptures.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: John 15:10, If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. listed, reply: Which commandments does Jesus say to keep?

All of them

Matthew 19:16-19
16, Behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17, And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18, He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Matthew 5:17-22; 27-28
17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19, Who so ever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20, For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21, Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22, But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

27, Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28, But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Once again you have not addressed the scriptures.

LoveGodsWord said: Matthew 5:27-28,
27,Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28, But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. listed, reply: This isn't teaching or requiring the law be kept. It does however show a violation of the law.

Actually it does because the context is

Matthew 5:20-21,
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21, Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Matthew 5:27-28,
27,Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28, But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

This is further referenced in …

Matthew 19:16-19
16, Behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17, And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18, He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19, Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Once again you have not addressed the scriptures.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: 1 John 3:3-10,
3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. listed, reply: This is being presented only to manipulate. The word "also" is being ignored. Proof is Romans 5:13 and Galatians 3:19. Verse 6 is emphasized to manipulate and a full denial of willful violation of the 4th commandment. Verse 8 is a full condemnation of self. Verse 10 isn't a reference to the ten commandments. I didn't comment on verse 9 because it would derail the thread and take a lengthy explanation.

There is no manipulation. God’s Word says what it says and is in harmony with all the other scripture provided that you have ignored and not answered. You did not address verse 9 and all of the above because it supports what that scriptures are saying above. Let’s have a look at your scriptures and interpretation of them.

Romans 5:13
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone's account where there is no law.

All this is saying is that God’s Law gives a knowledge of what sin is. If you do not know God’s Law you do not know what sin is. That is because God’s Law gives a knowledge of what sin is (see 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20, and Romans 7:7 and 1Tim 1:8-10). Let’s look now at the next verse..

Romans 5:14-16
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15, But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16, And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Why? (This is in harmony with Romans Chapter 2; 3 and 6)

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 2:11-12
For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law

So nope Romans 5:13 does not say what your implying that there is no law. It is saying that the purpose of God’s Law is to give a knowledge of what sin is which is supporting of the scripture I have shared with you so far.

Once again you have not addressed the scriptures.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: 1 John 5:2-3,
2, By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3, For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. listed, reply: This is misapplied thru the use of improper reference tot he pronouns. We find the commandment of God in 1 John 3:23. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John Chapters 2 and 3 as already shown above that the context is God’s Law (the 10 commandments) 1 John 3:23 is also in reference to God’s Law as shown in context in verses 1 John 3:3-15 where hatred and murder are used which is the 6th commandment (Ex 20:13)

1 John 2:2-4 Is a test to see if we are really following God or not. This test is in obedience to God’s Law. This is further explained in 1 John 3:3-15 which is the context of the scripture you quote (1 John 3:23). The context is sin and the transgression of God’s Law (10 commandments).

John 3:4 is defining sin as being the transgression or breaking of God’s Law (10 commandments) this is further referenced in other scriptures. Unless you want to tell me the book of Romans in not talking about God’s Law (10 commandments) (see Rom 3:20; 7:7). 1 John 3:3-15 is consistent with 1 John 2:2-4 in that it is talking about the same test to know if you are really following God or not. That test if is we are being obedient to God’s Law (10 commandments). 1 John 3:12-15 puts it beyond any confusion as it is giving the example of the murder which is the 6th commandment (Ex 20:13). Then if goes on to talk about believing in Jesus (God’s Word) and that love that is fulfilling God’s Law. Romans 13:9-10 is talking about the same thing.

So nope. Once again you have not addressed the scriptures.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: 2 John 1:6,
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. listed, reply: Again a case of misapplied pronouns trying to prove obligation to the law.

Nope! This verse is just a continuation of what John has described in 1 John 2:2-4; 1 John 3:3-15; 23 and that is that love is demonstrated by obedience to God’s Law. This is how we know that we know him and are not deceiving ourselves as highlighted above.

Once again you have not addressed the scriptures.

LoveGodsWord said:Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. v12, Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. listed, reply: No reference or quote of verse 6. Why? The quoted verses don't imply obligation to the law.

Why do I need to talk about v6? The scriptures sent to you and others was in relation to God’s Law not being abolished but are forever and the standard in the Old Testament, New Testament and the judgement to come. The scripture indeed shows the purpose of God’s Law and you have again not addressed the scripture just choosing to ignore it like the others.

God’s Law is indeed the very standard of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come (Ex 20:1:17, Heb 8:10-12; Exe 36:26-27; Jer 31:33-34).

Once again you have not addressed the scriptures.

LoveGodsWord said: Acts 17:30 In times of this ignorance God winks at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Hebrews 10:26-27 26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. listed, reply: Oh my! This talks about willful sin. Not being in compliance with the 4th after the discussion in this forum is no excuse if a person maintains obligation tot he famous ten.

Once again you have not addressed the scriptures.

I hope you will spend time to study God's Word for yourself seeking and asking God himself for his Spirit to be your teacher. The things we are talking about are important as is the 7th Day Sabbath which is one of God's 10 commandments. God's Word tells us that if we knowingly break one of God's commandments and do not repent we are guilty before God of breaking all of His Law and are in danger of the judgement.

Isaiah 55:6-7
6, Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: 7, Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

In Christ Always!

 

[stuart lawrence]

What speaks louder than anything, is not the huge amount of copy/ pasting done of scripture, but people's refusal to respond to questions concerning what they write/state. For people with a variety of views can quote scripture selectively at length to support their own particular view.

In Acts ch15 the leaders of the Christian church met to decide which Jewish laws gentile converts be asked to observe. Only four were mentioned, three of which it is widely believed were given to appease Jewish legalists who had become Christians.
The SDA say, you must avoid the Levitical unclean foods, you commit sin if you don't. Therefore, if the SDA are correct, the leaders of the Christian church, many of whom had been Christ's disciples gave gentile converts a licence to sin.
Do SDA members who reel off vast amounts of the letter respond to this point? No, they have to ignore it.
What if does show is, that sda do not understand correctly the law in regard to the NC.
That doesn't stop them of course from quoting much of the selective letter of scripture. But we do have evidence from the Bible their understanding of that letter is incorrect

 

[stuart lawrence]

Dear listed,
Thanks for your post. I am afraid for you as you go to much effort to ignore God’s Word. I speak this to your shame because it shows you do not know the Word of God. If you do not know the Word of God how will you be saved by it? I will address your post in sections for ease of reading for your consideration. I am happy to share scripture with you.

You are contradicting God’s Word indeed. We are delivered from the condemnation and penalty of God’s Law through faith in Christ. For by grace are you saved through faith and not of yourselves it is a gift of God lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8)

Why?

We have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name (Romans 1:5) because God loves us we love him. It is His love in us that makes us obedient and frees us from sin which is the breaking of God’s Law (John 3:16; Romans 13:9-10; John 14:15; John 8:32-36; 1 John 3:4)

Nowhere in God’s Word does Paul say God’s Law (10 commandments) is abolished. It is only said that if we have faith we are not condemned by the law and our faith in God’s Word saves us from sin and frees us from its power so we can be obedient to God’s Law as we walk by faith in God’s Word Jesus saves us from our sins (John 3:16; Romans 8:1-4; Eph 2:8)

Do you need further scripture about Paul’s teachings on God’s Law (10 commandments)?

Here you go. Here is a further 78 scriptures only from the writings of Paul that show your interpretation is not correct. This is only new Testament and does not even include the writings of the other Apostles.

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:1
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-1
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:3
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-1
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Rom 7:12
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20; 7:7
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Rom 6:23
12. If we break God's Law we dishonour God (Rom 2:23
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Rom 3:19
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Rom 3:31
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Rom 6:1-7
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Rom 6:15
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Rom 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2
18. God's Law (10 commandments) brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Rom 6:22
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Rom 2:4-13
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Rom 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Heb 10:26-27)

So in summary your claim inferring that Paul is saying the 10 commandments is abolished is not true. If it was he would not be telling people that through faith God’s Law is established in the believer’s life.

Rom 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

In Christ Always!

Quote me one single verse of Pauls where he uses the words Ten Commandments.
In relation to the TC he states they are the letter that kills/ the ministry of death and condemnation.
This of course refers to those commands having the attached penalty for transgression, something you, in truth believe exists concerning them.
For you insist you can only be in a saved state if you obey the TC. therefore, to you, the penalty remains in place for transgression, and therefore so does the law of sin and death.
As for your continued quote of Heb 10:26
When I ask you, if in your view this means anyone who commits a wilfull sin once they come to a knowledge of the truth can never again have a saviour from sin you refuse to respond.
In relation to the law being written in the believers mind and placed on their heart. The law inside of you did not convicted you to observe a set seventh day sabbath. That conviction came from reading what was written in ink

 

[stuart lawrence]

As for the rich young man who came to Christ in Matt ch19. Well firstly the OC, not the new one was in place at the time. However, an important point can be made concerning the discussion.
The young man asks Jesus what he must do to Inherit eternal life. Jesus responds by giving some of the TC, and telling the man if he obeys them he will live.
The young man responds by saying he has kept everyone of them since his youth.
Now according to LGWs oft repeated statements, Jesus must now tell the young man he will inherit eternal life. For LGW relentless states your judgement will be based on the TC.
However Jesus does not respond this way, and the young man ends up walking away from Christ.

Why did Jesus not respond with John 3:16 when the young man asked him what he must do to Inherit eternal life? Safe to say Jesus knew the young man before he asked the question. The young man thought he could attain heaven, by believing he had obeyed the TC. The story shows us he couldnt

 

[listed]

And so it goes on. Law written on stone wasn't transferred onto tablets of human hearts. However, if a Christian transgresses as written, nine of the commandments written on stone they will be conscious they commit sin.

I have to say, I'm struggling to recall such contradiction I have come accross on the internet.
I nearly forgot, another one has been aired in this very thread, from the other extreme

The Christian can't transgress what is written on stone solely because that covenant has been replaced even for the Jew with a better covenant based on promises instead of law. This new covenant
isn't better because of movement.