GOD'S LAW (10 commandments) ARE FOREVER!

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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: LOVE is the fulfilling of God’s Law In us who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit; Love is in-deed the fulfilling of God’s Law. This is the promise of the New Covenant. Spoken about by God in the Old Testament and repeated in the New.

Eze 36:26-27,
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh and I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jer 31:33-34,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Heb 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

So now under the new covenant when God changes our heart; we will love God and our neighbour.

if we love God we will not steal
if we love God we will not murder
if we love God we will not commit adultery
if we love God we will not lie
if we love God we will honour our parents
if we love God we will not covet
if we love God we will have no other gods except our God who loves us
if we love God we will not make unto any idols
if we love God we will not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain
if we love God we will Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy as he asked us to!

God’s Law has always been central to both the Old and the New Covenant. It is only by the operation of God as we have Faith in His Word that God changes our hearts so that we can love him and love our neighbour that we can walk in his ways. This is why Jesus says its only if you love me we can keep hid commandments (John 14:15)

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Psa 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
Love is the fulfilling of the God’s Law. I love Jesus and want to follow Him how about you

If we are knowingly and wilfully breaking any of God’s Laws however we are sinning against God. Sin is the transgression of God’s Law and God’s Word tells us that if we continue in sin the wages of sin is death (1 John 3:4; Rom 6:23). If we choose to follow the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God then we are unbelievers in God’s Word.

Soyeong, post: None of the verses you cited specify that they are only speaking about ten of God's laws. We have it recorded that Jesus talked about obeying more than the 10 commandments, so you can't talk about the importantance of obeying his commands while at the same time disregarding most of them.

Seems like you agree that post # 3 is talking about the 10 commandments but you also want it to include the ceremonial laws of Moses that were a Shadow of things that pointed to Jesus and were nailed to the cross with our sins (Col 2:14-17; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Jesus summarized the greatest two commands as to love God and our neighbor and that that the rest of the laws are just examples of how obey those two commands. For example, the first five of the Ten Commandments are in regard to loving our creators while the last five are in regard to loving our neighbor all of the other commands in the Bible can be divided into these categories, so love fulfills the Law because it is obeying it as it should be obeyed.
You’re nearly right Soyeong:oldthumbsup:. Actually it is the first four commandments of God’s Law that summarizes our love and our duty towards God (not five; Ex 20:3-11), and the next six commandments that summarizes our duty of love towards our neighbor (Ex 20:12-17)
So to say that no one can keep the Law is to say that it is impossible to love anyone, which is quite clearly false. Furthermore, it is in direct disagreement with God, who said that what He commanded was not too difficult (Deuteronomy 30:11-14), which Paul also echoed in Romans 10:5-10 in regard to what it means to what our faith says for how to submit to Jesus as Lord. In 1 John 5:3, it also confirms that the commands of God are not burdensome.
No one can keep God’s Law without the salvation that come by faith through love in Christ was the point I was making because we are all sinners and all we can do without Jesus and His salvation on our life is sin. All God’s Law does is point out sin and shows us that we are all guilty before God as sinners to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. God’s Law does not make us righteous. It is only by love to God and our neighbor that fulfills God’s Law in us as we walk by faith in God’s Word. It is only God that can change our hearts to love him. It is only by faith that God writes his laws in our heart as we come to him just as we are , as a sinner in need of salvation. This is why Jesus says truly, truly I say to you unless a man is born again he can in no wise enter into the Kingdom of Heaven (Romans 3:19-20; Gal 3:24-25; Heb 8:10-12; John 3:5)

It is only Jesus that can save and free a sinner from sin as we have faith in His promises. If you are not following God’s Word by faith which produces the fruit of obedience you are not following God. As it is written… They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick but go ye and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Matt 9:12-13; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:17) Without Jesus; (Isaiah 64:6; Job 14:4; Jeremiah 13:23; Romans 3:23; Romans 5:12; Matthew 12:34-35; Ephesians 2:8-10, John 15:4)
While God's Law certainly points out our sin, that is far from the only thing that it does because it is primarily given to teach us how to walk in God's ways in accordance with His attributes (Deuteronomy 8:6): holiness, righteousness, goodness (Romans 7:12), justice, mercy, faith (Matthew 23:23), and other fruits of the Spirit (Exodus 34:6-7). Pointing our sin is only a step in leading us back to repentance and obedience. The Law points us to Christ because he is the only one who can redeem us from our sin and purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works (Titus 2:14). God does not command us to do good works all throughout the Bible and then turn around and show disdain for our good works, so the righteous deed of the saints are not like filthy rags, but rather they are like fine white linen (Revelation 19:8). In Isaiah 64:6, it was not God speaking, but rather it was the people complaining about how they thought God was viewing their righteous deeds. In Deuteronomy 6:24 and Deuteronomy 10:13, God said that what He commanded was for His people's own good, so living in obedience to God's commands has never been about trying to save ourselves through our own effort, but rather it has always been about living by faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live.
Good I do not disagree:oldthumbsup:. I think you are trying to make an argument that is not there. Although I believe the scriptures are talking about God’s Law not the ceremonial laws of Moses that were a Shadow of things that pointed to Jesus and were nailed to the cross with our sins (Col 2:14-17; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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"The Law and the Prophets" (1) is a phrase that specifically refers to the five books of Moses and the eight books of Prophets in the Hebrew canon, so there is no way to reduce that to only the Ten Commandments. I would agree with (2), but I think he was just listing examples of commands in regard to loving our neighbor, and where he lacked was in the commands to loving our creators. In (3), Jesus said that all of the Law and the Prophets hang on the greatest two commands, so all of the laws in the OT are included. I agree with (4-5), but they don't specify the Ten Commandments. With (6), Jesus said in John 14:23-24 that his teaching was not his own, but that of the Father, which was a lot more than just the Ten Commandments. In regard to (7), this is a warning you should take more seriously because you are relaxing more the least of the commands when you teach that we don't have to obey ceremonial laws. I agree with (8), but again same point. I agree with (1 and 9), but (2-5,7) don't specify the Ten Commandments, while (6 and 8) actually inconsistent with only speaking about the Ten Commandments. None of these points specify that they are only talking about the Ten Commandments.
Seems like you agree that post # 3 is talking about the 10 commandments but you also want it to include the ceremonial laws of Moses that were a Shadow of things that pointed to Jesus and were nailed to the cross with our sins (Col 2:14-17; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Again, crosses were never uses as a means of disposing of outdated laws, but rather what was written on crosses were the charges against the person being crucified (Matthew 27:37), and this is what is being referred to as the handwriting of ordinances that are against us. In other words, they wrote the violations of the law that the person had committed as explanation for why they were being crucified, not the laws themselves, so they didn't have to legislate new laws every time someone was crucified. This fits perfectly with our sins or violations of God's Law been nailed to Messiah's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty of our sins, but does not fit with him dying to free us to do what God has revealed to be sin. Titus 2:14 does not say that He gave himself to redeem us from the Law, but to redeem us from all Lawlessness.
Friend, you ignore the scriptures in Col 2:14 and 17 and the Greek meaning of the Word “Dogma” G5498 χειρόγραφον; cheirographon; which means; hand written legal manuscript document which is combined with ordinance G1378 δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; which means; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law: The Greek meaning of handwriting of ordinances in V14 is a hand written book of civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws. These laws, along with our sin is referred to in verse 14 that have been erased and are nailed to the cross.

The inscription nailed on the cross as you claim was only that Jesus was the “King of the Jews”. What you are claiming makes no sense that the Col 2:14 is referring to the charge of the sign that was nailed on the cross that “Jesus was the king of the Jews”. How is the sign a “dogma” which means ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws (plural)? What was the significance of the temple being curtain being rent at Christ death? (Matt 27:51). How also is the “sign” against us (Col 2:14)? As mentioned earlier please refer to the OP in the thread COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH for more information. PARTS 1-4.

Titus 2:14 is referring to God’s Law the 10 commandments not the ceremonial laws that pointed to Jesus and were a shadow of things to come. So does not support your argument as you are changing from one law to another. Do you now do burnt offerings to obtain forgiveness of sins? Jesus is the true sacrifice that taketh away the sins of the world (John 1:19)
 
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LoveGodsWord said: Why were these ceremonial laws pointing to Jesus nailed to the cross? Colossians 2:17; “Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.” God’s Law (10 commandments and the ceremonial laws of Moses had completely different roles in the Old Covenant.
Soyeong, post: God's holy days are important foreshadows of what is to come that are extremely rich with teachings about God, God's plan of redemption, and what we will be doing during Messiah's reign. Paul was writing Colossians 2 to encourage them to keep obeying God's holy days and to not let any man keep them from obeying God.
So I gather your belief is that you are still under the ceremonial laws of Moses under the Old Covenant? So do you do meat and drink and burnt offering’s in order to have forgiveness of sins and keep all the annual Jewish festivals? According to Paul, these were a shadow of things to come that pointed to Jesus, his death as our true sacrifice, resurrection and role as our great high priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary (Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29). As mentioned earlier please refer to the OP in the thread COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH for more information. PARTS 1-4.
 
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LoveGodsWord said (1) God’s Law (10 commandments) pointed out what sin was and the penalty of sin which is death. It was never a cure for sin in the Old Testament as well as in the New. It only gives a knowledge of what sin is and righteousness (right doing) (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23; Ps 119:172).

(2) The laws of Moses was the second set of laws and included all the civil, ceremonial, and ecclesiastical laws. These laws could not tell you what sin was this was the job of God’s Law, however the laws of Moses were the prescriptive cure for sin in the Old Covenant. These laws included all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, sacrificial burnt offerings for sin, annual festivals and earthly sanctuary services for sin. These laws were the cure for sin so the sinner could be made right with God.
Soyeong, post: God's Law is inclusive of any law that God has ever commanded either directly or indirectly and it is always a sin to disobey any of God's commands, so you are creating a false distinction. The laws of Moses were commanded by God through Moses acting as a mediator, so they were not given by the authority of Moses, but by the authority of God, and are therefore also required. In Deuteronomy 8:6, it does not describe them as the ways of Moses, but as the ways of God. They are God's ways because they all teach us about Him and about how to reflect his attributes to the world. For example, the ceremonial laws are God's instructions for how to reflect His holiness. The blood of goats and bulls never took away sin (Hebrews 10:4), so the law of Moses were never given as a prescriptive cure for sin, but rather a relationship with Christ is the goal of the Law for righteousness for everyone who has faith (Romans 10:4), so it has only ever been through our intimate relationship with Christ that our sins are cleansed both in the OT and NT, and the Law teaches us how to grow in that relationship.
Let me ask some simple questions which may help the discussion. Who made the 10 commandments God or Man (Ex 31:18; 32:16)? How many commandments did God make himself without man that were written on two tables of stone by God himself (Ex 20:1-17)? How many commandments did God speak with his own voice to His people (Ex 20:1-17)? Why did God request that His Law (10 commandments) be kept separate from the ceremonial laws of Moses that were written in a book (Deut 10:5; Deut 31:25)? Who were the laws of Moses written by God or Man (Deut 31:24-27). If God’s Law (10 commandments) and the laws of Moses were all the same why did God give instructions to keep them separate (Deut 10:5: Deut 31:24-27)?

It is very clear from God’s Word that God’s Law and the ceremonial laws of Moses are different and not the same and God separated them for a reason. God’s Law is forever (Ecc 3:14). The ceremonial laws of Moses however were a shadow of things to come pointing to Jesus and had there fulfilment in the cross (see; Col 2:14-17; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29).

You then go on to say that the ceremonial laws of Moses were not a prescription for sin in the Old Covenant but ignore the scriptures that say what was required for forgiveness under the Old Covenant before Jesus (see; Lev 1:1-13; Lev 23:1-44; Num 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deut 24:10-11; Ex 24:3; Deut 31:24-26; Col 2:16-16; Heb 10:1; Eph 2:14-15; Lev 4; 5; 6; Heb 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29; Hebrew Chapters 8; 9; 10; 2Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29)

You then claim that Holiness come from the ceremonial laws of Moses but I see not scripture for this claim. You then quote Hebrews 10:4 and Romans 10:4….

Hebrews 10:4
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

This verse is not saying what you are claiming. The ceremonial laws of Moses with animal sacrifices were prescription for sin as highlighted above in order to obtain forgiveness for sin in the Old Covenant and could make nothing perfect. This is highlighted in the context of the verse which supports everything I have been sharing with you in the earlier verses…

Hebrews 10:1
For the law having a shadow of good things to come,
and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Now what law are we talking about God’s Law (10 commandments) or the ceremonial laws of Moses? (v2) sacrifices of blood and bulls, (v6) burnt offerings, (v7) in the volume of a book. It is very clear that Hebrews 10 is talking about the ceremonial laws of Moses that were a Shadow of things to come (Heb 10:1) not God’s 10 commandments.

Then you refer to Romans 10:4, For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth. This is now talking about God Law (Rom 3:25; Rom 6:16-19; Rom 8:4). It seems you are mixed up between God’s Law which is forever (Ecc 3:14) and the ceremonial laws of Moses which are part of the Old Covenant and a Shadow of things to come (Colossians 2:17; Hebrews 10:1) which were pointing to Jesus and was fulfilled at the cross according to the scriptures (see; Col 2:14-17; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29).
What was nailed to his cross were our sins or violations of the Law, not the Law itself.
Absolutely!:oldthumbsup: Our sins were indeed nailed to the cross along with the ceremonial laws of Moses that the Word of God says were shadows that pointed to Jesus as our true lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world ( Col 2:14-17; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Saying that by grace through faith we are required to be careful to obey all of God's commands is not the same saying that we must obey God through our own efforts because, as I said, it is by grace through faith, which is not through our own efforts. Being saved from our sins necessarily involves being made into someone who does not sin. In Titus 2:11-14, it says that our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to refrain from doing what is ungodly and sinful, which is essentially what the Mosaic Law was given to instruct how to do. Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law was how they knew what they should be repenting of doing, so repenting from our disobedience to the Mosaic Law is an integral part of the Gospel message. Love fulfills the Mosaic Law because that is essentially what the Mosaic Law was given to instruct us how to do. In Deuteronomy 6:20-24, obeying the Mosaic Law is about having faith in Him to save them from slavery in Egypt, faith in God to defeat Pharaoh, faith in God to bring them to the land that He swore to their fathers, faith in God that His commands our for our own good, and faith in God to preserve us, so it is by faith that we are are declared righteous and by the same faith that we are to be careful to live in obedience to all of God's commands. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience that faith requires. All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160) and none of those verses specify that only the Ten Commandments were given to reveal what sin is.

It seems you are mixed up between God’s Law and the ceremonial laws of Moses that were fulfilled at the cross. (Col 2:14-17; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29). I do not judge you however this is between you and God and we will have to agree to disagree if you believe in the ceremonial laws of Moses that where shadows pointing to Jesus. You have provided a lot of repetition in your posts I think I have addressed everything. So let’s leave it at that otherwise we are just repeating ourselves and going around in circles which is to no one’s benefit. I have not come across anyone that has a belief system such as yours. What Church do you go to?
 
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How so?

You state if the fourth commandment is not observed your name cannot be written in the lambs book of life.

But where obedience to Jesus teaching is concerned, you say you are no one's judge
I missed that post. about the Lamb's Book of Life. Does anyone have the post number?
 
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  • Jesus knew the thief's heart it is called Grace thank you Lord
It does not invalidate Jesus statement of If you love me keep my commandments is valid as the thief had a conversion on the cross and his sins were forgiven it has to be this way as there are no confessed sins in heaven, all the redeemed have their sins covered by the blood of Jesus.
What commands of Jesus or law did the thief comply with? The only answer can be none.
 
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Okay what laws laws are they then?
What laws did Abraham keep? They can't be the law given to Israel. Moses says they aren't. Is Moses correct? If they were the law and written on the heart, wouldn't your church be overflowing and huge to accommodate the crowds of believers?
 
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Hello friend,

I probably should start by replying to your earlier posts, but there are some important points to make in this one.



Again, crosses were never uses as a means of disposing of outdated laws, but rather what was written on crosses were the charges against the person being crucified (Matthew 27:37), and this is what is being referred to as the handwriting of ordinances that are against us. In other words, they wrote the violations of the law that the person had committed as explanation for why they were being crucified, not the laws themselves, so they didn't have to legislate new laws every time someone was crucified. This fits perfectly with our sins or violations of God's Law been nailed to Messiah's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty of our sins, but does not fit with him dying to free us to do what God has revealed to be sin. Titus 2:14 does not say that He gave himself to redeem us from the Law, but to redeem us from all Lawlessness.
This is a self conflicting statement.
 
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Jesus summarized the greatest two commands as to love God and our neighbor and that that the rest of the laws are just examples of how obey those two commands. For example, the first five of the Ten Commandments are in regard to loving our creators while the last five are in regard to loving our neighbor, but all of the other commands in the Bible can be divided into these categories, so love fulfills the Law because it is obeying it as it should be obeyed. So to say that no one can keep the Law is to say that it is impossible to love anyone, which is quite clearly false. Furthermore, it is in direct disagreement with God, who said that what He commanded was not too difficult (Deuteronomy 30:11-14), which Paul also echoed in Romans 10:5-10 in regard to what it means to what our faith says for how to submit to Jesus as Lord. In 1 John 5:3, it also confirms that the commands of God are not burdensome.

While God's Law certainly points out our sin, that is far from the only thing that it does because it is primarily given to teach us how to walk in God's ways in accordance with His attributes (Deuteronomy 8:6): holiness, righteousness, goodness (Romans 7:12), justice, mercy, faith (Matthew 23:23), and other fruits of the Spirit (Exodus 34:6-7). Pointing our sin is only a step in leading us back to repentance and obedience. The Law points us to Christ because he is the only one who can redeem us from our sin and purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works (Titus 2:14). God does not command us to do good works all throughout the Bible and then turn around and show disdain for our good works, so the righteous deed of the saints are not like filthy rags, but rather they are like fine white linen (Revelation 19:8). In Isaiah 64:6, it was not God speaking, but rather it was the people complaining about how they thought God was viewing their righteous deeds. In Deuteronomy 6:24 and Deuteronomy 10:13, God said that what He commanded was for His people's own good, so living in obedience to God's commands has never been about trying to save ourselves through our own effort, but rather it has always been about living by faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live.



None of the verses you cited specify that they are only speaking about ten of God's laws. We have it recorded that Jesus talked about obeying more than the 10 commandments, so you can't talk about the importantance of obeying his commands while at the same time disregarding most of them.



It's like you are on the right path in focusing on the important theme of obeying God rather than man, but stop short of the delight, the privilege, and the blessings that could be yours by letting man limit you to only obeying only ten of God's commands. Those who are in Christ ought to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:3-6), and the way that he walked was in perfect obedience to all of God's commands.
Are you physically circumcised? If so was it the ceremonial act prescribed in the OT or the medical practice of gentiles for disease prevention?

To walk as Jesus walked isn't a prescription to become a Jew and live like them.
 
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Nothing you have written in the above shows that law written on stone is not now on tablets of human hearts.
Indeed, you appear very confused about the subject.
One minute you say the law got abolished, the next it exists to make us conscious of sin
Nothing you post shows anything different.
 
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I mean, perish the thought a Christian in their heart wouldn't want to murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness for God transferred that law into their hearts.
Scandalous!!!
I'm dealing with an insurance company and fully understand why an individual would want to murder (do harm).
 
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stuart lawrence

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Tis a strange thing.
People who say the law written on stone is not written in the mind and placed on the heart of the believer, would undoubtedly believe, if you committed the act of adultery you have committed sin. If a believer bore false witness they would have committed sin. If a believer committed theft they would have committed sin, if a believer took the Lord's name in vain they would have committed sin.
However, they still, somehow insist what was written on stone is not written on tablets of human hearts.
Fascinating!
 
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stuart lawrence

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There's dissention in the camp anyway. Some say the law exists to make you conscious of sin, while others say it doesn't. Some say the law exists one minute, then the next say it doesn't.

The trouble with Incorrect doctrine is, you end up contradicting yourself all over the place
 
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Let me ask some simple questions which may help the discussion. Who made the 10 commandments God or Man (Ex 31:18; 32:16)? How many commandments did God make himself without man that were written on two tables of stone by God himself (Ex 20:1-17)? How many commandments did God speak with his own voice to His people (Ex 20:1-17)? Why did God request that His Law (10 commandments) be kept separate from the ceremonial laws of Moses that were written in a book (Deut 10:5; Deut 31:25)? Who were the laws of Moses written by God or Man (Deut 31:24-27). If God’s Law (10 commandments) and the laws of Moses were all the same why did God give instructions to keep them separate (Deut 10:5: Deut 31:24-27)?
There's no request for the stone tablets to be separate from the rest of the law. In referencing Deuteronomy as from God you also must conclude the law(s) not on the tablets are also from God or God made no such request. Deuteronomy would then be only words of Moses, not God. The priesthood also would be the doing of Moses and not God. You have a problem.
 
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