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God's judgements on Catholics?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by JohnR7, Mar 26, 2002.

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  1. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    1 Peter 4:17
    For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

    It seems there is a lot of stuff now coming out about the Catholic Church right now. From what I understand, the Bishops were covering up for some of the Priests. But now the Bishops may come under heat from the government, so they are just not so willing to cover it up anymore.

    My experance is that usually there are demons involved in something like this. There is confusion on the part of the attacker as well as the victom. So I just wonder who we can trust and who we can believe.

    I am sure there is a problem there, but does anyone have any hope of actually finding out the full truth? There just seems to be so many liars and so many coverups. I do not know who to trust and believe unless I hear it from the Holy Spirit of Truth and Grace. Thanks, JohnR7
     
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  2. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
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    I think it might be God allowing evil acts to be exposed, but it doesn't make sense that God would judge Catholics any sooner than he would judge non-catholics. Plus, not every catholic commits evil acts, yet you are implying that they are all being punished by God for this.

    The evil acts were committed by a few, and then the evil was further committed by the coverups. It is those who did the acts and those who didn't deal with them that will be judged for what they did, but not every catholic will have to answer to God for them.

    Instead of playing God by pronouncing judgement, why not pray for justice for the evil men, and for mercy for the children?
     
  3. soulsisterclaire

    soulsisterclaire JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME

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    Are you saying that you believe that the Catholic Church is the "houseold of God"?

    Because I think the verse is referring to Christians in general, all that are in the Body of Christ.
     
  4. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    Hi John,
    You're not opening yet another can of worms are you?? One thing for sure, for those that take pleasure in sin. Their sins will surely find them out. There shall be no escape.
    John, I also would like to add, that it has been a joy to read your opinions, surely the Lord is with you Brother !!
     
  5. soulsisterclaire

    soulsisterclaire JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME

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    Can of worms for sure. But this is not the Catholic Forum.

    John, are you Catholic?
     
  6. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    I believe 1 Peter 4:17 is telling us, that the Church will be judged in heaven, before He judges the world, or nations.
     
  7. soulsisterclaire

    soulsisterclaire JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME

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    "the Church" being the Body of Christ, right? All those that are saved, right? Not just Catholics?
     
  8. Wildfire

    Wildfire Member

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    Maybe this is the spark of the "falling away" the bible tells us about. I can see it happening; just like a stack of cards, the Catholic power and wealth is going to be blown away.
    What is it's foundation?
    Theres your answer. Wildfire
     
  9. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    Or maybe it's just some perverted men, making their own individual bad choices, committing sin, not as part of a group or an organization, but because of the evil in their own hearts.
     
  10. patriarch

    patriarch Senior Member

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    Don't hold your breath.

    Lee
     
  11. VOW

    VOW Moderator

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    Uhhhhhhhhhh....the Catholic forum is for those who wish to DISCUSS and LEARN about the Catholic faith, not debate.

    Let's listen to what lambslove has to say. You are talking about the sins of MEN, not the Catholic Church. Were Clinton's indiscretions in the White House a reason to condemn the government of the United States?

    Don't try to read God's judgment on any one or any thing. That's God's job.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  12. Dave Ulchers

    Dave Ulchers Active Member

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    675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.[573] The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth[574] will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.[575]

    676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgement. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,[576] especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.[577]

    677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.[578] The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.[579] God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgement after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.[580]

    http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/creed9.html#THENCE
     
  13. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    Hello Wildfire,
    I wouldn't be so hard on the Catholics, not all of them. I believe that we do have some brothers and sisters in that bunch. How many, I don't know, but I do know that there are some that do know the truth. I also believe that all denominations will have some of there members left behind. And there will be cults that are (ALL) left behind too. Maybe the Lord is about to do a mighty work in the Catholic Church, who knows??

    I do believe that it will be the Catholic Church, (Vatican) in Rome that will be the Apostate Church in the tribulation, but that will be after the rapture. The Lord will first remove the wise virgins before this takes place. This Church will follow after myths, and trade in the truth for lies. After the rapture, the world will see the GREAT FALLING AWAY. In those days, it will be very hard to find someone that believes the truth, because they will all be in hiding, and eventually they will be martyred. The falling away from the truth will be seen everywhere in the churches in the tribulation. I don't think the future martyrs will hang out there very much.

    Yes, there are some very bad things going on in the Catholic Church right now, but we still have some good people in there. I wouldn't be so quick to judge every Catholic. That's not our mission here. I would just caution us all to be careful, even myself. In His name !!
     
  14. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

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    Please do not get angry with me. But who becomes Pope if this pope dies or retires. I would like to research this person. I am sorry I do not know how such matters work. Is someone picked by the Pope or is there a line of succession. Forgive my ignorance.

    :) LOVE
     
  15. Honeycomb

    Honeycomb Member

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    1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
    ____________________

    Just so we are clear on who the "house of God" is:
    ____________________

    1 Tim. 3:15
    But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
    ____________________

    Are you a Christian? :wave:

    Then you are one of those "living stones" which make up the temple of God, of which Christ is the Chief Cornerstone, and so you are part of the "house of God"

    So Peter says that means you're first in line for judgment!

    And what about those who "obey not" the gospel of God?

    Remember back in chapter 2, verses 7 & 8, who the "disobedient" are?

    They are those who stumble at the Word of God and follow the traditions of men instead of the oracles of God.

    So what shall be their end? That's simple :rolleyes:

    They will go to the end of the line, which means they will go through the Millennium and be judged last at the great white throne judgment.
    ____________________

    1 Pet.4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
    ____________________

    Have you gathered by now that being a Christian doesn't mean you are exempt from trials and tribulations?

    It can get a little hot! In fact, Nebuchadnezzar had the furnace stoked 7 times hotter than normal, so be aware that it can get "7 times hotter" for Christians than for others.

    So Peter now says that if the righteous scarcely [meaning with difficulty] be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? :scratch:

    At the end of the line! :confused:
    ____________________

    1 Pet. 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to Him in [well doing,] as unto a faithful Creator.
    ____________________

    Do you trust your Father? Are you committed to Him in well doing [doing well]? He is faithful in all His promises to us! And He has rewards waiting for us that we cannot even begin to imagine with our flesh brains. :rolleyes:

    It is no accident that Peter started this book with a reminder of those rewards so that when we got to the tough stuff, the realization that we are going to suffer persecutions, etc., that we can see past our current afflictions all the way to the victory at His coming!
    ____________________

    1 Peter 1:4
    To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, [5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
    ____________________

    Do you suffer with JS? If you do, it is by your choice!

    Take the advice from the Big Fisherman. :idea:

    Thank you Lord!

    Have a great day :wave:

    Peace & Giod bless
     
  16. Dave Ulchers

    Dave Ulchers Active Member

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  17. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

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    Thanks...I will read it. Does it give a glue who it might be?
     
  18. VOW

    VOW Moderator

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    To Catchup:

    We'll have to flag down Wolseley for the precise method of choosing a Pope, but basically there is a council of Cardinals at the Vatican who have researched all the candidates for the Chair of St Peter. Names are proposed, and the Cardinals pray for guidance by the Holy Spirit. Once that is done, they take a vote, writing their choices on slips of paper. There is a special stove in the room where they meet, and the stove is vented to the outside where the people gather to watch. Depending on what the Cardinals burn with the paper, the people will know whether or not they have a new Pope. Sometimes it takes more than one vote. But through all the decision making process, the Cardinals pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  19. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    >>but it doesn't make sense that God would judge Catholics any sooner than he would judge non-catholics.

    You guys better talk to Josephus, I got that passage from him in the other thread on this subject. I will be careful not to do that again. Thanks, JohnR7
     
  20. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

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    OK, I read that thread. You really don't know??? You have no idea who will be your Pope. The Pope is pope until he dies or retires, right? The Pope speaks for the Church right? How much say does he have in what is adopted into your beliefs? If you find my questions prying or insulting...please accept my apology. Is there a person that will probably be chosen? What about the man who filled in for the Pope recently. Who is he?

    :) LOVE
     
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